5 dead, more than a dozen injured at LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado

[Bradskii]

Sounds like "Mary" should take a look in the mirror and accept reality rather than insisting society play out his fantasy.

Who said she was a man? Mary actually is a woman. But hey, some people call it as they see it. Who cares how upset she gets. You have a position to maintain, so if she looks like a guy, then that's how you'll refer to her.

 

[dzheremi]

This thread makes me wonder where some of you live that you're apparently constantly running into androgynous people. How on earth is it hard to tell what sex someone is, in the vast majority of cases? I thought the whole opposition to transgenderism at this level is that you're being 'forced' to call someone something other than what they look like -- meaning you can tell what they look like in the first place!

 

[Bradskii]

This thread makes me wonder where some of you live that you're apparently constantly running into androgynous people. How on earth is it hard to tell what sex someone is, in the vast majority of cases? I thought the whole opposition to transgenderism at this level is that you're being 'forced' to call someone something other than what they look like -- meaning you can tell what they look like in the first place!

There's something of a dichotomy here. It seems that if a person has transgendered from, for example, a man to a woman and she now looks quite feminine, then some people have no problem using female pronouns. But if a woman, transgendered or not looks male, then people will 'call it as they see it'.

So some facial hair perhaps, or a deep voice or some gym time on the weights has built some muscle, then it's he and him, no questions asked.

 

[Aldebaran]

There's something of a dichotomy here. It seems that if a person has transgendered from, for example, a man to a woman and she now looks quite feminine, then some people have no problem using female pronouns. But if a woman, transgendered or not looks male, then people will 'call it as they see it'.

So some facial hair perhaps, or a deep voice or some gym time on the weights has built some muscle, then it's he and him, no questions asked.

If a person wants to be seen by society a certain way, they have to take steps to look a certain way to society. It's the same as the way you dress, the way you express yourself, or the things you say. It's always going to be unrealistic to expect society to know about you other than what you put out there for them to see.

 

[Bradskii]

If a person wants to be seen by society a certain way, they have to take steps to look a certain way to society. It's the same as the way you dress, the way you express yourself, or the things you say. It's always going to be unrealistic to expect society to know about you other than what you put out there for them to see.

What you will know about somebody is how they wish to be referred to. What you happen to think about what they look like, how they dress and what and how they say anything is absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with you in the slightest and I really can't emphasise strongly enough that nobody needs to comply with your standards in any way whatsoever.

So to make this clear to you, if the new girl Mary from accounts can bench press 200lbs, speaks an octave lower than you, has close cropped hair and likes to wear trousers, then you'll refer to her the same as everyone else does. Or you'll quite possibly find that you'll need to start looking for another job.

 

[Tinker Grey]

That's a big "what if".
Let's stick with reality, not denial.

Really? You couldn't possibly be wrong? Yeah.

 

[rjs330]

What if Mary was born with female parts, identifies as female, and your stupid perceptions clocks her as male?

Seriously? How often has that happened to you? How many times have you called someone a he that was really a female? Grew up with female parts, lived as a female and expressed herself as a female. Happen often does it?

 

[Tinker Grey]

Seriously? How often has that happened to you? How many times have you called someone a he that was really a female? Grew up with female parts, lived as a female and expressed herself as a female. Happen often does it?

Seriously? How would you know? That's the point. How many times have you decided an unattractive female is actually male? You can't possibly know.

 

[rjs330]

What you will know about somebody is how they wish to be referred to. What you happen to think about what they look like, how they dress and what and how they say anything is absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with you in the slightest and I really can't emphasise strongly enough that nobody needs to comply with your standards in any way whatsoever.

So to make this clear to you, if the new girl Mary from accounts can bench press 200lbs, speaks an octave lower than you, has close cropped hair and likes to wear trousers, then you'll refer to her the same as everyone else does. Or you'll quite possibly find that you'll need to start looking for another job.

And now you understand the problem. You should not have to deal with that.

You mention people not having to comply with our standards. The same goes for you. We should not have to comply with your standards when those standards deny reality.

How often have you met a Mary that is a female who can do and looks as you describe, who looks just like a dude?

I've met women who wore close cropped hair, wore trousers and likes to life weights. You know what, she still looked like a female. We all called her she/her. Her name was Linda.

 

[rjs330]

Seriously? How would you know? That's the point. How many times have you decided an unattractive female is actually male? You can't possibly know.

Haven't been wrong so far.

 

[Bradskii]

How often have you met a Mary that is a female who can do and looks as you describe, who looks just like a dude?

You've painted yourself into a corner. If a man has transgendered to a woman and looks to you as a woman should, then you have no problem using female pronouns. You've agreed to that. You've posted exactly that. But you have literally said that you will 'call it as you see it'. So if the person hasn't changed enough - according to your standards - then you'll refuse to use them.

So do you have a brief word with that person? 'Look, you need to lose some facial hair. And maybe shave your legs and wear something pretty and then we can discuss new pronouns. But until then, I'm going to refer to you as a male. I mean, I can't be fairer than that.'

What sort of world do you live in where that situation can even be remotely contemplated?

 

[Aldebaran]

What you will know about somebody is how they wish to be referred to. What you happen to think about what they look like, how they dress and what and how they say anything is absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with you in the slightest and I really can't emphasise strongly enough that nobody needs to comply with your standards in any way whatsoever.

I noticed how you turned it around to make it sound like I'm talking about complying with "my" standards, even though we've been discussing how the rest of society is being told how to conform to transsexual demands. Nice try, but all-too-transparent.

So to make this clear to you, if the new girl Mary from accounts can bench press 200lbs, speaks an octave lower than you, has close cropped hair and likes to wear trousers, then you'll refer to her the same as everyone else does. Or you'll quite possibly find that you'll need to start looking for another job.

Sounds like something a woke boss would say to keep his company's ESG score up.

 

[Bradskii]

I noticed how you turned it around to make it sound like I'm talking about complying with "my" standards...

'It's the same as the way you dress, the way you express yourself, or the things you say.'

So you personally expect people to dress a certain way. You personally expect people to speak a certain way. You expect them to comply with what you personally consider to be societal norms. And if they don't, then you personally reserve the right, actually demand the right to use whatever pronoun you personally decide.

How on earth is this not about you deciding what your personal standards are? And if you decide that you aren't going to use female pronouns in referring to a woman because you don't think she satisfies standards with which you have decided she must comply, then you act surprised that you might well be in line for being dismissed from your job for intentionally and continually causing distress to a female co-worker because she doesn't meet your standards of what a woman should be.

Seriously?

 

[Aldebaran]

'It's the same as the way you dress, the way you express yourself, or the things you say.'

So you personally expect people to dress a certain way. You personally expect people to speak a certain way. You expect them to comply with what you personally consider to be societal norms. And if they don't, then you personally reserve the right, actually demand the right to use whatever pronoun you personally decide.

How on earth is this not about you deciding what your personal standards are? And if you decide that you aren't going to use female pronouns in referring to a woman because you don't think she satisfies standards with which you have decided she must comply, then you act surprised that you might well be in line for being dismissed from your job for intentionally and continually causing distress to a female co-worker because she doesn't meet your standards of what a woman should be.

Seriously?

Ok, I've attempted to have a meaningful conversation with you, but I can see that my efforts aren't appreciated, and it will soon be my bedtime, so I'll write to you one more time before having my evening snack and getting a good night's sleep.

All you've done is double-down on attempting to talk about what you refer to as "my" standards, when I clearly said it is what society expects of people within it. I know you're aware of that since you carefully quoted what I said while leaving that part out so you could continue trying to make this personally about me.
Here is a full quote of what I said, with the references to society being highlighted so that you won't easily miss them, unless that's exactly what you're trying to do.

If a person wants to be seen by society a certain way, they have to take steps to look a certain way to society. It's the same as the way you dress, the way you express yourself, or the things you say. It's always going to be unrealistic to expect society to know about you other than what you put out there for them to see.

 

[Bradskii]

All you've done is double-down on attempting to talk about what you refer to as "my" standards, when I clearly said it is what society expects of people within it.

You are applying what you think societies standards should be. You are the one making the call. Nobody else. Everyone else in the company might well use female pronouns for their new work colleague. But you are going to personally decide what is applicable or not. This plaintive 'it's not me, it's what society decides' fools no-one.

Again, you are the one making the call. You would personally decide. It would be your personal stand on what you think should apply. Nobody else is telling you what you can or cannot do. But what you should do is treat any woman in a situation like this with some basic respect.

 

[Aldebaran]

You are applying what you think societies standards should be.

I'm educating you on what they already are.

 

[rjs330]

You've painted yourself into a corner. If a man has transgendered to a woman and looks to you as a woman should, then you have no problem using female pronouns. You've agreed to that. You've posted exactly that. But you have literally said that you will 'call it as you see it'. So if the person hasn't changed enough - according to your standards - then you'll refuse to use them.

So do you have a brief word with that person? 'Look, you need to lose some facial hair. And maybe shave your legs and wear something pretty and then we can discuss new pronouns. But until then, I'm going to refer to you as a male. I mean, I can't be fairer than that.'

What sort of world do you live in where that situation can even be remotely contemplated?

I'd like to live in a world of reality and not delusion.

One where for thousands of years men were men and women were women. Where we didn't have to try a guess what somebody was because we were unsure.

Look I've had no problems so far figuring out what to call someone. It's not that difficult really.

 

[Bradskii]

It's not that difficult really.

Indeed not. If someone is introduced as a woman, you call her 'she'.

 

[essentialsaltes]

What if Mary was born with female parts, identifies as female, and your stupid perceptions clocks her as male?

 

[rjs330]

Indeed not. If someone is introduced as a woman, you call her 'she'.

Not if he looks like this.

10,121,000+ Man Pictures

Find & Download the most popular Man Photos on Freepik ✓ Free for commercial use ✓ High Quality Images ✓ Over 49 Million Stock Photos. #freepik #photo

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Or this...

man in a wig meme - Google Search

www.google.com

If Mary is a man and looks like a woman I would happily call her a woman cause I wouldn't have a clue.