3abn Continued

[tomatoe]

Woobadooba, Linda was already publicly shamed and dismissed and he still won't produce the evidence. Until he does I will not take his side.

As to trying to get rid of 3ABN I encouraged my churches to lobby (successfully) to get 3ABN in our area on cable networks, made up an advertising campaign for our area, and promoted 3ABN more than once at public events. I am not against 3ABN.

However, the reputation of my local church is now tied to that network. And I think they should come forward with the facts. They put out letters to members of my church who have donated over the years, and put stuff on the air, and my members ask me about this. I can't ignore it if I want to. They need to clear it up. The only way they can do that for me is to bring forward the evidence they have against Linda which started this whole issue.

I can certainly understand where you are coming from since you have given your support in the past. But keep in mind just because evidence hasn't been made public yet doesn't mean that it won't. It is my understanding that 3abn is working diligently to resolve these allegations in a proper and proffesional manner. I personally believe the time will come when all will be made clear (or at least as clear as something like this can be.) In the meantime, remember that until you get the answers you seek, 3abn continues the work that they started, of winning souls to Jesus with the 3angels message. They are expanding into different countries all the time and people that have never been able to hear of Jesus love is hearing it now. Whole Sunday churches have been converted through the 10 commandments books with more people coming in all the time. We must have patience for a resolution on all these allegations but in the mean time, How can we fail to support the fruits of this ministry? The undeniability of souls that it is reaching? I believe all things will come to light eventually and most of these allegations will be laid to rest but in the interim, I will continue to support the work with my prayers and finances, because really, 3abn is not about Danny or Linda it is about reaching souls. This cannot be done without prayer and financial support. I couldn't help but notice also, that around the time of the 10 commandment weekend last year is when the rumors and campaigns against 3abn really took hold and has continued ever since. Coincidence? Not in my humble opinion. I agree with Jim that too many have been saved by the holy spirits influence on this book and these 10 commandment weekend campaigns and Satan wants nothing more than to stop it in it's tracks. I personally do not want to be a part of enabling satan to succeed and I hope and pray that all you readers out there, won't be a part of it either.
Tomatoe

 

[noahswife]

As a criminal investigator I was about finding eye witnesses to support possible criminal charges to be filed. In the rules of evidence that is similar to any court in the land this statement could be admisable in a court of law if they signed an affidavit/witness statement on this event.

You are wrong Clay. My post on what was said was indeed hear-say but the statment this person made to me was not. Whether or not you choose to believe me is your decision.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Jim,

Clay was not wrong in his statement to you. You said that "If I was in fact doing a criminal investigation on this, the particular part of the statement I got could be used in a court of law as a witness statement. This is not hear-say or gossip." You have in writing this statement implied that the witness statement would not be considered hearsay if you presented it in a legal proceeding.

You are correct now in your statement that a witness statement may be admissable if certain criteria are met. That does not change the fact that the statement if presented by you is still hearsay. You have merely met the criteria for it to be admissible as an exception to the hearsay rule.

So the fact remains that what you are claiming here is still hearsay if you did not hear the conversation yourself. You have not even met any of the criteria for an exception to the hearsay rule as you may have in court.

 

[StormyOne]

Jim I am not impressed with what you choose to call yourself.... criminal investigators can be wrong too... especially if they attempt to find evidence to support their preconceived case.... as NW indicated you are incorrect, however I know getting an ex-cop admit they might be wrong is probably next to impossible...

Rosie.... someone asked you some questions.... you gonna answer them or ignore them?

 

[Jimlarmore]

So the fact remains that what you are claiming here is still hearsay if you did not hear the conversation yourself. You have not even met any of the criteria for an exception to the hearsay rule as you may have in court.

This is totally correct except for the statement I received. Like I said that is not hear-say only my post on that statement is hear-say. The bottom line is whether or not you or anyone else chooses to believe me or not as I stated to Clay. I think my appeal is to the lurkers who are watching & reading all of this and making decisions about this mess. I believe what I was told at this point I have no reason not to. As far as being prejudiced or preconceived on this case. You may want to go way back into the earlier posts on this thread and read what I wrote before on Tommy right after Clem made his response. You don't know me and you don't really care. You only know that I stand at this point on an opposite side of the fence on this than you do. Reasonable folks evaluating all of this will eventually see the real motives of those who attack and those who defend.

I feel my motives have been from the beginning to not to defame but to lift up. I am about really saving 3ABN not just saying so and then going about doing everything in the world to bring it down.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

I was just looking at the number of posts as opposed to the number of views on this thread. There are 5235 views as opposed to 326 posts. Now if you subtract the number of posts from the views sinc you have to view the thread to post you come up with 4909 views. Not counting the multiple views of folks who post going back in to view a post of theirs or someone elses that makes over 15 views for every post being made.

I think my idea of the soap opera syndrome is correct. Human nature is attracted to this kind of mess. A story of sorted contradictory sides involving alledged illicit activity on both sides.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[noahswife]

Tomatoe,

I am curious how you did your homework? How did you decide what information was credible and what was not? You seem familiar with other forums. Are you posting there too?

Tomatoe, I was afraid you might have missed my questions since there has been such a flurry of posts here.

Also, you have said in your most recent post, "I believe all things will come to light eventually and most of these allegations will be laid to rest". Do you have something to support your belief in this happening any time soon other than hearsay?

You state in that post, " 3abn continues the work that they started, of winning souls to Jesus with the 3angels message." "They" started? Do you think that while we are waiting for the allegations to be laid to rest that Danny stepping aside might until then have been the ethical thing to do instead of remaing front and center and potentially keeping this whole drama going? If Linda was seen as a "necessary sacrifice" to avoid hurting the work of 3abn, would not Danny stepping aside on a temporary basis be much less of a sacrifice than the one Linda was required to make?

You have also just said in that same post, " I personally do not want to be a part of enabling satan to succeed and I hope and pray that all you readers out there, won't be a part of it either." Is it your belief that to question what has allegedly happened at 3abn is enabling satan? Do you think the documents posted at save3abn.com enable satan?

 

[tomatoe]

Tomatoe, I was afraid you might have missed my questions since there has been such a flurry of posts here.

Also, you have said in your most recent post, "I believe all things will come to light eventually and most of these allegations will be laid to rest". Do you have something to support your belief in this happening any time soon other than hearsay?

You state in that post, " 3abn continues the work that they started, of winning souls to Jesus with the 3angels message." "They" started? Do you think that while we are waiting for the allegations to be laid to rest that Danny stepping aside might until then have been the ethical thing to do instead of remaing front and center and potentially keeping this whole drama going? If Linda was seen as a "necessary sacrifice" to avoid hurting the work of 3abn, would not Danny stepping aside on a temporary basis be much less of a sacrifice than the one Linda was required to make?

You have also just said in that same post, " I personally do not want to be a part of enabling satan to succeed and I hope and pray that all you readers out there, won't be a part of it either." Is it your belief that to question what has allegedly happened at 3abn is enabling satan? Do you think the documents posted at save3abn.com enable satan?

I am satisfied with what I know and how I know it. I do not feel obligated in anyway to provide the answers of how or why I have that information. This is not an interogation room and neither am I on a witness stand with you as the opposing attorney. I have noticed in your posts that your time is spent trying to get others to prove what they know when I have yet to see why you know what you think you know. confusing isn't it?
I personally believe that you are relying on second and third hand accounts yourself, even though, that seems to be what you are accusing others of doing.
No one can stop you from "grilling others" but for myself court is adjourned where you are concerned.

 

[tomatoe]

This is totally correct except for the statement I received. Like I said that is not hear-say only my post on that statement is hear-say. The bottom line is whether or not you or anyone else chooses to believe me or not as I stated to Clay. I think my appeal is to the lurkers who are watching & reading all of this and making decisions about this mess. I believe what I was told at this point I have no reason not to. As far as being prejudiced or preconceived on this case. You may want to go way back into the earlier posts on this thread and read what I wrote before on Tommy right after Clem made his response. You don't know me and you don't really care. You only know that I stand at this point on an opposite side of the fence on this than you do. Reasonable folks evaluating all of this will eventually see the real motives of those who attack and those who defend.

I feel my motives have been from the beginning to not to defame but to lift up. I am about really saving 3ABN not just saying so and then going about doing everything in the world to bring it down.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Well said Mr. Larmore. I think the save3abn site says it all when you look at the bottom corner where it actually says save3abnnot. Now that is one of their few truthful statements

 

[noahswife]

I am satisfied with what I know and how I know it. I do not feel obligated in anyway to provide the answers of how or why I have that information. This is not an interogation room and neither am I on a witness stand with you as the opposing attorney. I have noticed in your posts that your time is spent trying to get others to prove what they know when I have yet to see why you know what you think you know. confusing isn't it?
I personally believe that you are relying on second and third hand accounts yourself, even though, that seems to be what you are accusing others of doing.
No one can stop you from "grilling others" but for myself court is adjourned where you are concerned.

Tomatoe,

Have you asked me a specific question about anything that I have failed to answer?

 

[tomatoe]

Jim I am not impressed with what you choose to call yourself.... criminal investigators can be wrong too... especially if they attempt to find evidence to support their preconceived case.... as NW indicated you are incorrect, however I know getting an ex-cop admit they might be wrong is probably next to impossible...

Rosie.... someone asked you some questions.... you gonna answer them or ignore them?

Stormy, I don't believe that Jim is "calling himself" anything. From what I understand he actually had the credentials to prove it. Unlike Mr. Joy or Mr. Pickle who have no credentials to present and yet, you choose to believe them. Go figure.....

 

[StormyOne]

Stormy, I don't believe that Jim is "calling himself" anything. From what I understand he actually had the credentials to prove it. Unlike Mr. Joy or Mr. Pickle who have no credentials to present and yet, you choose to believe them. Go figure.....

you missed my point... regardless of his credentials, or what he believes himself to be..... he is human and he can be wrong....

And since you don't know me you don't know who I choose to believe... but here is a newsflash.... long before I heard of Mr. Joy or Mr. Pickle it was my opinion that Danny did NOT handle this appropriately..... had he not showed up at bsda lying, then I would not have cared...

 

[tomatoe]

you missed my point... regardless of his credentials, or what he believes himself to be..... he is human and he can be wrong....

And since you don't know me you don't know who I choose to believe... but here is a newsflash.... long before I heard of Mr. Joy or Mr. Pickle it was my opinion that Danny did NOT handle this appropriately..... had he not showed up at bsda lying, then I would not have cared...

I believe according to what I have read on some of the forums, what you are calling a lie is the fact that Danny came to a forum and said he was trying to work things out with Linda and then shortly after, got the divorce. Is this the lie you are referring to? If so, that can hardly be the basis for forming your opinions on Danny. I am sure when he said it, he was totally sincere. Trouble is, it takes two people to reconcile. One obviously refused to do what it took to work things out and from my understanding, gave Danny no hope for things to work out in the future. He really was left with no alternative. One can have the best intentions then have everything blow up in your face. That isn't reason to call someone a liar. Unless that is, you are just looking for one....

 

[Pickle]

That's really none of my business and I really don't want to dig into their family laundry that deep and neither should you.

You were asked whether you believe that Linda committed physical adultery. I then asked when prior to their divorce you think that happened. Now you indicate that it's none of your business, and thus you really had no basis after all upon which to make your original statement.

However, from the communications I have had with some who were there when this all went down, including Dr. Thompson , she was intimately involved in an activity that brought her into strong suspicion for having an illicit sexual affair.

Phone calls? Really?

According to Dr. Thompson Clem said he was 20 when this happened and if you know this to be a fact you are viciously spreading a lie.

Jim, if you are so ill informed as to think that Duane Clem at 19 is the same person as Roger Clem at 16, you ought to bow out of this conversation entirely until you get some reading done.

Dr. Thompson also told me about a woman who was threatening to black male Tommy over her son. It seems just being around her son was enough for her to think something wrong may have happened. Now she wants Tommy to pay for her son's college education.

Names please, Jim? We need names badly.

The reason we need names is because we don't have a clue who you are talking about. Roger Clem is now around 38. His mother died in 2001. Brad Dunning was 14 around 1982 or so. Greg would be about the same age as the rest. The son of Mom in Pain #1 might be a few years younger, but as far as I know, he's not thinking about going back to college.

Now maybe you're talking about Virginia. Is that what you're talking about?

 

[Pickle]

tall73, 3abn will come forward with the truth eventually. In talking with them, they are unable to present evidence because their attorney's have asked them not to.

Pretty stupid advice if you ask me.

But I question that. Linda was asking for full disclosure back in late November or so, and 3ABN didn't start saber rattling until much later. My guess is that the above is just another excuse, a stall tactic to produce what they either don't have or what will incriminate them civilly or criminally.

 

[Pickle]

It is my understanding that 3abn is working diligently to resolve these allegations in a proper and proffesional manner.

They most certainly are not.

Whole Sunday churches have been converted through the 10 commandments books with more people coming in all the time.

Please name a few. I would like to rejoice with you in this, but I don't think I can just take your word for it that this is happening without some specifics.

I couldn't help but notice also, that around the time of the 10 commandment weekend last year is when the rumors and campaigns against 3abn really took hold and has continued ever since.

I think you are incorrect. Surely Danny's marriage without proof of biblical grounds raised questions, but Linda's daughter's allegations of sexual assault were not released until July, and Glenn Dryden's 2003 letter did not surface until mid-August.

I personally do not want to be a part of enabling satan to succeed ....
Tomatoe

Then by all means stand up for principle and respectively ask Danny to come clean, lest Satan succeed in bringing 3ABN down through what he has done and is doing.

 

[StormyOne]

I believe according to what I have read on some of the forums, what you are calling a lie is the fact that Danny came to a forum and said he was trying to work things out with Linda and then shortly after, got the divorce. Is this the lie you are referring to? If so, that can hardly be the basis for forming your opinions on Danny. I am sure when he said it, he was totally sincere. Trouble is, it takes two people to reconcile. One obviously refused to do what it took to work things out and from my understanding, gave Danny no hope for things to work out in the future. He really was left with no alternative. One can have the best intentions then have everything blow up in your face. That isn't reason to call someone a liar. Unless that is, you are just looking for one....

I know a lie when I read one... and I recognize spin when I read it... you are spinning..... likewise you cannot tell me what I can base my opinion on... like I said, you don't know me... it is obvious you believe every word that has come out of Mr. Shelton's mouth.... I don't....

 

[tomatoe]

Well said Mr. Larmore. I think the save3abn site says it all when you look at the bottom corner where it actually says save3abnnot. Now that is one of their few truthful statements

Jim, I don't know about you, but this Mr. Pickle, his questions, and his attitude make him suspect, imo. It is like he is desperate for any little tidbit that he can somehow turn on 3abn. His posts smack with a hatred and bitterness and also a desperation to try and prove himself right no matter who he hurts in the process. None of the leaders in the church that I have talked to, know who he is or why he is doing it. I would hate to think that in trying to gain attention, that one would put their soul at risk in the process. The word tells us that when we turn away from doing right, we will suffer strong dillusions. That very well could be what is happening in this case. very sad.

 

[tomatoe]

I know a lie when I read one... and I recognize spin when I read it... you are spinning..... likewise you cannot tell me what I can base my opinion on... like I said, you don't know me... it is obvious you believe every word that has come out of Mr. Shelton's mouth.... I don't....

No need to be snide. To each his own.

 

[Pickle]

His posts smack with a hatred and bitterness ....

You stated that Sunday keeping churches have started keeping the Sabbath because of the TCTR book. I said that I wanted to rejoice with you, but needed to know the specifics, which churches you were referring to first. That's hatred and bitterness?

Since Danny et. al. has told fibs before, including on global TV, it is important to substantiate each claim, at least until he has regained his reputation as a commandment keeper.

Please tell us a few of these churches that have started keeping the Sabbath because of the TCTR book. I promise I will rejoice with you over the name of each church you share.

I have passed that book out door to door. I arranged for its insertion in a local shopper paper. I arranged for a billboard advertising it. I think we placed some newspaper ads advertising it, but I'd have to check to see if they advertised just the weekend or the book too.

 

[steffanphilip]

For those reading this thread, you will note that suddenly out of nowhere brand new members have popped up and have started posting. There is a concerted effort by a few people to distract and defend Danny Shelton, Tommy Shelton, and the rest at all costs. Sometimes these posters are Shelton family members.
.

For those reading this thread, you will note that suddenly out of nowhere, people have started posting allegations and have tried their best to bring down a ministry that tries to reach people for God. You will notice that no post of theirs is actually uplifting God's ministry.

They started posting this. They popped up out of nowhere! But they suddenly found people with common sense opposing the allegations. So of course, we are the ones who popped up out of nowhere!

Read any number of posts where these people have urged letter-writing campaigns, phone call campaigns - all in an effort to close down 3ABN.

If it were not for my wife watching 3ABN, she would not be an Adventist. And these people would like to tear down this ministry!

For those reading - you judge the direction their posts have taken. I call them what I call them because there can be no good word for someone trying to do Satan's work.