3abn Continued

[Jimlarmore]

You make some interesting points. I have to say personally speaking, I don't know of anyone, or anything I have read that that shows somebody wants the ministry to go down. That just is not the case. Quite the opposite actually. If it were as you are saying, I too would be suspicious, but I know that this is not the case at all. So, if someone alludes to the fact that this is the mission by people coming forward, doing research and reporting, you are mistaken to believe that. Keep that in mind as you read everything as well.

In the process of reading the statements , I have on more than one occasion read some calling for us to withdraw financial support for 3ABN. I'm sorry but that sounds like trying to bring it down to me. How do you see all of this playing out in the end anyway?

Also, as for letting the truth come out...how do you think that happens? You are right, the Lord will not tolerate it, and it's showing already. As He pulls his hand away, don't you think it will show?

What may be showing is a concerted effort of satan himself to bring this ministry down and it appears he's got a shot at suceeding.

I agree, I will never spread a pack of lies, work to cover anything up for anyone, that is not how Jesus would want me to be or to do - but I know He expects me to stand for truth - isn't truth Jesus' bottom line? Isn't that what SDA's are always saying is the most important and has seperated SDA's in some regard from everyones else? TRUTH?

Let's just make sure it's the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. None of this slanted and biased dialogue that serves unholy purposes.

Dialogue is never rediculous, if reasoning is accomplished.

Reason and logic got the theory of evolution started my friend. I agree we need to stay reasonable and use the facts and the truth but some of this stuff is as I say rediculous gossip as I see it.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Pickle]

If this is the same minister's letter I read on another website he clearly has an agenda as well. Making statements that are desultery to say the least about Danny being married three times and that he got rid of Linda so he could marry his girl friend Brandy. Is that the same letter? If so then maybe you need to re-read it again with an open mind.

Jim, I'm afraid your reply here didn't make a bit of sense, and suggests that the reason why you are having trouble with some of this is that you haven't investigated it enough for yourself in order to form an educated opinion.

Why do I say that? Because the 2003 Glenn Dryden letter is called the 2003 Glenn Dryden letter because it was written in 2003. That being so it can't possibly talk about Danny being married three times because at that point he had only been married two times.

How could you have confused the 2003 Glenn Dryden letter with a letter I think Elder Thorvaldsson wrote in 2006?

Get specific on this,,, what are you talking about?

Sorry. Can't. The aggrieved has placed conditions on the release of that information. But I'm sure it will be out there at some point.

If you have anything concrete then by all means let us see it other wise you are just passing on hear say information.

I think I have, many, many times.

Here's some concrete info:

• Danny lied to Gailon about having proof that Linda's car is titled in his name.
• Walt Thompson gave bogus information when he said that Danny paid off Linda's car, paid off Alyssa's car, and gave Linda everything in the house.
• Danny lied on Feb. 15, 2007, when he said that ASI was going to hear any accusations and complaints.
• Danny and Tommy lied on Dec. 31, 2006, when they said that Tommy was retiring due to stress from his schedule, weekend travelling, long commuting, and above everything else, a ferry.

What sort of concrete info are you looking for?

 

[Pickle]

could you explain this. i am not familure with this

The Dryden letter can be found at http://www.save3abn.com/glenn-dryden-to-walt-thompson-may-2003.htm and Mike Riva's reply can be found at http://www.save3abn.com/mike-riva-to-glenn-dryden-june-2003.htm

 

[Jimlarmore]

Jim, I'm afraid your reply here didn't make a bit of sense, and suggests that the reason why you are having trouble with some of this is that you haven't investigated it enough for yourself in order to form an educated opinion.

Why do I say that? Because the 2003 Glenn Dryden letter is called the 2003 Glenn Dryden letter because it was written in 2003. That being so it can't possibly talk about Danny being married three times because at that point he had only been married two times.

How could you have confused the 2003 Glenn Dryden letter with a letter I think Elder Thorvaldsson wrote in 2006?

I didn't read the names of the minister who wrote the letter just the letter itself. It appears I made a mistake. Shucks, imagine that!!

Sorry. Can't. The aggrieved has placed conditions on the release of that information. But I'm sure it will be out there at some point.

Then you need to be silent about something you can't back up. What you are doing is exactly what I said was happening all along here and that is stirring a big old bucket of you know what.

I think I have, many, many times.

Here's some concrete info:

• Danny lied to Gailon about having proof that Linda's car is titled in his name.
• Walt Thompson gave bogus information when he said that Danny paid off Linda's car, paid off Alyssa's car, and gave Linda everything in the house.
• Danny lied on Feb. 15, 2007, when he said that ASI was going to hear any accusations and complaints.
• Danny and Tommy lied on Dec. 31, 2006, when they said that Tommy was retiring due to stress from his schedule, weekend travelling, long commuting, and above everything else, a ferry.

What sort of concrete info are you looking for?

I thought you were talking about real corruption. The first two is just a bunch of piddly stuff you would expect to hear in any divorce fight and certainly not corruption on a high level. The last two may not be lies but statement over intentions. You guys want to hang a man of God over this kind of stuff????? I thought the way you were talking we had a real serious problem here. What a joke!!!!


God bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Pickle]

Then you need to be silent about something you can't back up.

I can back it up, and so I won't remain silent. I refuse to be a dumb dog.

I thought you were talking about real corruption.

You ignored my question. Why? I asked you what concrete stuff you wanted, and failed to come anywhere close to answering.

Walt Thompson said that Danny told him in 2003 that the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations were 30 years old, when they were as recent as 3 years old at that time. He also indicated that Danny blamed it all on a feud between Dryden and Tommy, when Dryden lived hundreds of miles away until 8 years after Tommy's ordination was suspended.

Danny has admitted that, as of a month after his divorce was final, he still didn't have proof that Linda had committed fornication. And Walt said the same in march 2005.

But that didn't stop either of them from pretending that a stupid pregnancy test joke was proof of adultery, even though Linda had not been around Dr. Abrahamsen between February 6, 2004, and May 7, 2004, the date Danny found the pregnancy test.

Meanwhile on April 27, 2004, Danny wrote Linda's sister that the marriage was over because Linda had followed her family's stupid advice by hiding his gun. But, he said, she only hid one gun, and he had two. Thus according to Danny himself, what made him decide to divorce Linda was that she had hidden his gun.

Again, I ask you, what sort of concrete info are you looking for?

You guys want to hang a man of God over this kind of stuff?????

Danny is not a man of God. He is an unrepentant sinner who allows John Lomacang and others to call him the "Lord's anointed,"a title last used in Rev. 11 to refer to Christ. He refuses and spurns the kindest appeals for him to do what is right. And he does that in writing.

 

[Jimlarmore]

You know a criminal case may not be possible but a class action law suit could be. Six kids is quite a few and It sounds to me like they are all still in the area around the Thomsonville or Southern Illinois area. If Tommy is guilty of this he needs to at the very least comply to the suggested list of things given. If he doesn't then he needs to be sued in a court of law.

Has anyone suggested a class action law suit for these people?

BTW, to me there is a huge separation between the actions of Tommy Shelton and the alledged affair of Linda culminating in divorce from Danny. I would just as soon let the Shelton's laundry remain in the hamper for my tastes. However, Tommy is a different animal all together ( pun very much intended ). I've dialogued with Clem so far but I had no idea that there were that many possible victims. These things need to be investigated and appropriate actions taken.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

Again, I ask you, what sort of concrete info are you looking for?

I don't know maybe something of real substance that really spells corruption not a bunch of he said she said nonsense that needs to stay within the confines of family fight and divorce.

Danny is not a man of God. He is an unrepentant sinner who allows John Lomacang and others to call him the "Lord's anointed,"a title last used in Rev. 11 to refer to Christ. He refuses and spurns the kindest appeals for him to do what is right. And he does that in writing.

So judgemental , who made you God all of a sudden friend? Don't you think you need to allow the Creator to do that and stop spreading all the filth you can?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Pickle]

Jim,

Step back a little and read the end of your last post. You made a judgment call and called Danny a man of God. Then you react when someone else makes a similar judgment call. Aren't you being inconsistent?

There were at least eight minors in Illinois. And a class action suit has been suggested, but it is a big step for any of them to take, and there are some hurdles to surmount.

I started asking questions in earnest about anything but the divorce and remarriage in August. I didn't start looking into the divorce and remarriage until December. It really wasn't something I wanted to dig into, so i can relate to how you feel.

Regardless of how sticky it is, the facts remain that Danny said the marriage was over because Linda hid his gun, and he said on July 17 that he still didn't have proof that she had committed adultery.
That means that he divorced Linda without biblical grounds, and that means he could or should be subjected to church discipline. But has that happened? No. Linda was to be brought up for discipline instead. Why? And she was falsely made out to be an adulteress when it is Danny that committed sin by divorcing her for other than fornication. That simply isn't right, and none of us should be hesitant in saying so.

Now Jim, if you had been lied about in that way, and saw your reputation and life ruined right before your eyes, how would you
Should not the parable of the Good Samaritan be applicable here?

The wicked will call for the rocks and mountains to fall on them to hide them from the wrath of the Lamb, says Rev. 6. EGW in DA describes that as being like the anger of parents who had a child lost in the snow, whom passers by left to perish. The Lord Jesus will indeed be angry with any of us who leave someone to perish, whether they be someone who has heard the message or someone who hasn't heard.

One last thought on what I started with. When I spoke of Danny being unrepentant, I was not really being judgmental. The simple fact is that I can read what he wrote me. See the end of http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-untruths-in-detail-4.htm, http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-untruths-in-detail-appeal-1.htm in its entirety,
and Danny's response at http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-untruths-in-detail-reply-2.htm. He's clear where he stands.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Jim,

Step back a little and read the end of your last post. You made a judgment call and called Danny a man of God. Then you react when someone else makes a similar judgment call. Aren't you being inconsistent?

Let's see how inconsistent I am. Danny Shelton began over 22 years ago to build a T.V. network ministry to spred the undiluted three angels messages to the entire world. Miracle after miracle came about to make this happen over time. Today , the ministry still relies on the Lord to provide every need financially each month. IOW, they have no money in the bank but they somehow manage to pay huge bills amounting to more than a quarter of a million a month. Literally thousands of folks have come to Christ because of this ministry. If the man was not a man of God this would not have happened because the Lord would not have blessed it like He has. The Bible tells us that we will know them by their fruits. Danny Shelton may not be perfect. He may be far from it and may have made some bad decisions. However, any clear thinking person can see his fruits and know that the Lord has blessed Him.

There were at least eight minors in Illinois. And a class action suit has been suggested, but it is a big step for any of them to take, and there are some hurdles to surmount.

Well, you know that may be true but I think maybe they need to be the ones to be raising this stink instead of hear-sayers like yourself. Let them come forward as Clem did, we certainly won't turn them away.

I started asking questions in earnest about anything but the divorce and remarriage in August. I didn't start looking into the divorce and remarriage until December. It really wasn't something I wanted to dig into, so i can relate to how you feel.

I'm not certain you really do. I'm not certain just how much of all of this is the real truth especially after reading Danny's response to you Bob. I feel from reading your posts that I'm dealing with a crusader here and not necessarily a rational person capable of being totally fair and unbiased. Other wise you wouldn't be spredding piddly things like car titles and guns being hidden as attrocities of major proportions.

Regardless of how sticky it is, the facts remain that Danny said the marriage was over because Linda hid his gun, and he said on July 17 that he still didn't have proof that she had committed adultery.

Well, the board at 3ABN felt they had probably cause to dismiss Linda and from what I have read they gave her more than one chance to stop what she was doing to protect her from this embarrasing path she wandered down.

That means that he divorced Linda without biblical grounds, and that means he could or should be subjected to church discipline. But has that happened? No. Linda was to be brought up for discipline instead. Why? And she was falsely made out to be an adulteress when it is Danny that committed sin by divorcing her for other than fornication. That simply isn't right, and none of us should be hesitant in saying so.

Since you really don't know for sure what the truth is on this you are simply stirring up an emotionally charged fiasco to denigrate Danny Shelton and his leadership at 3ABN. Danny made an excellent point when he responded to you and said ' If things have been so bad all along at 3ABN why is Linda just now coming foward to spill the beans? She has been an integral part of everything we've done until she was dismissed.'

One last thought on what I started with. When I spoke of Danny being unrepentant, I was not really being judgmental. The simple fact is that I can read what he wrote me. See the end of http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-untruths-in-detail-4.htm, http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-untruths-in-detail-appeal-1.htm in its entirety,
and Danny's response at http://www.save3abn.com/danny-shelton-untruths-in-detail-reply-2.htm. He's clear where he stands.

I could almost hear Danny's voice in my head as I read his response to you. You make some huge assumptions when you point a finger at Danny for being totally at fault here. Like most divorces, I'd bet, if I was a betting man that neither side is innocent here. There was probably wrong things done on both sides. Rmember, It takes two to tango.

I think the main thing for most of us sane folks to consider is that this is nothing more than a divorce. A high profile one but nothing more. This happens all the time in our church. Obviously, Linda messed up and got fired from 3ABN. Did she comit adultery? Who knows for sure but God Himself and the participants of the alledged act/s. I think we do an injust to the ministry of 3ABN when we pull out the Shelton's laundry for nealy the whole world to see. Let the elders of the church handle all of that is my opinion.

Now Tommy is another matter all together. If in fact Tommy Shelton is a pedophiliac/sex offender, then he has no business being around children at the 3ABN studios or any where else for that matter. As a matter of fact I don't think he needs to even be at 3ABN.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Pickle]

You know as well as I do that Seventh-day Adventists do not teach that material prosperity is proof that someone is a man of God. And neither are miracles such proof. Ellen White was quite clear that the sick can be healed because of their own faith, even when a corrupt minister prays for them.

I do know for sure, and your statements to the contrary don't negate the fact, that Danny declared that their marriage was over because Linda hid his gun. And that "offense" has never been considered a biblical cause for divorce within Adventism.

You seek to excuse Danny's lies about Tommy, Linda, and others, his unbiblical divorce, etc., because Linda has to be at fault too? On what grounds does any wrong Linda may have done at 3ABN or in their marriage excuse Danny's lies? His lies to his own board chairman about the serious nature, wide extent, and long duration of the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations? How does Linda's wrongs excuse Danny's ending his marriage because Linda hid his gun?

Assume she's Jezebel incarnate, for the sake of discussion. Why would that excuse Danny's alleged refusal to tell his board how much profit he made from the Ten Commandments book? And his admitted hiding of those profits during his division of marital property proceedings? This one issue is something that could cost 3ABN its tax exempt status since presidents of non-profits aren't supposed to be personally profiting form the activities of those organizations.

 

[Pickle]

Let's see how inconsistent I am. Danny I could almost hear Danny's voice in my head as I read his response to you. You make some huge assumptions when you point a finger at Danny for being totally at fault here. Like most divorces, I'd bet, if I was a betting man that neither side is innocent here. There was probably wrong things done on both sides. Rmember, It takes two to tango.

Frankly, your reply implies that you never read the emails I sent Danny, even though I provided you with the links. The subject of those emails was Tommy, not Linda. Why are you dragging Linda into that specific discussion when she wasn't the topic of the discussion?

More importantly, why are you pulling a Danny Shelton on us? Ask Danny about Tommy, and he brings up Linda. Ask Danny about royalties, and he brings up Linda. Ask Danny about anything and he brings up evil, sinister, corrupt Linda. Why are you doing what Danny Shelton does?

 

[Jimlarmore]

You know as well as I do that Seventh-day Adventists do not teach that material prosperity is proof that someone is a man of God. And neither are miracles such proof. Ellen White was quite clear that the sick can be healed because of their own faith, even when a corrupt minister prays for them.

Your doing a spin dance here and not facing the truth. It shows and you are loosing your credibility rapidly. I never said anything about material wealth was a sign of a man being a man of God. Have you read the book Mending Broken People, by Kay Kuzma? Get a grip man, this ministry could not have survived the way it has for over 22 years without the blessings of God. 3ABN is God's ministry, not Danny Shelton's or anyone else's, just God's.

I do know for sure, and your statements to the contrary don't negate the fact, that Danny declared that their marriage was over because Linda hid his gun. And that "offense" has never been considered a biblical cause for divorce within Adventism.

That statement alone if it was all that was considered would be lacking however, the whole thing started with her having an affair with this doctor. The decision to divorce wasn't a snap decision just over a gun or some name on a car title.

You seek to excuse Danny's lies about Tommy, Linda, and others, his unbiblical divorce, etc., because Linda has to be at fault too? On what grounds does any wrong Linda may have done at 3ABN or in their marriage excuse Danny's lies?

You don't know how many lies were told, your just spouting off accusations of lies based on hear-say evidence. Let the victims come foward to make the claims then we will have something substantial to deal with. What you are doing is gossip and not glorifiying the Lord.

His lies to his own board chairman about the serious nature, wide extent, and long duration of the Tommy Shelton child molestation allegations? How does Linda's wrongs excuse Danny's ending his marriage because Linda hid his gun?

Ever heard of the straw that broke the camel's back? Like I said that wasn't all there was to it as you insinuate here. The fact you make these insinuations shows your crusading attitude to denigrate Danny instead of logically examining all of the evidence and seeking to have the proper folks like the elders handle it.
You must have a really big stirring paddle my friend.

Assume she's Jezebel incarnate, for the sake of discussion. Why would that excuse Danny's alleged refusal to tell his board how much profit he made from the Ten Commandments book? And his admitted hiding of those profits during his division of marital property proceedings? This one issue is something that could cost 3ABN its tax exempt status since presidents of non-profits aren't supposed to be personally profiting form the activities of those organizations.

We ordered 500 for the pathfinders to distribute and never paid anything but shipping. Anyone else pay for their books? From my understanding he donated probably millions of dollars worth of books for this cause and yet you do this. I think I know what the source of your rage is.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Pickle]

It is quite clear that though you have said you used to do investigations, you are having trouble being objective and unbiased.

When one has allegations of deceit, if one is unbiased, one doesn't take the alleged deceiver's word for anything, as you have done by taking the accounts of miracles and material blessings being touted by Danny et. al.

You make the claim that the whole thing started because Linda had an affair with the doctor. Please lay before us your evidence to this effect, bearing in mind that Walt Thompson stated in writing in March 2005 that he had never had evidence that Linda had committed adultery.

You don't know how many lies were told, your just spouting off accusations of lies based on hear-say evidence.

Since when is what Danny, Walt, and Tommy say hear-say evidence? You are talking about things you know not.

Danny and Tommy both stated on the air that Tommy was retiring because of four things, the worst of all being a ferry boat. Yet Tommy's sister-in-law wrote a few weeks before, and Tommy wrote in February or so, that his alleged health problems were due to the child molestation allegations. That's not hear say. That's Tommy and his sister-in-law vs. Tommy and Danny.

Danny stated on Feb. 15, 2007, that ASI was willing to hear any accusations and complaints. I know that was a lie because I was part of the negotiations, and it was Harold Lance and Danny's persistent refusal to allow ASI to do that that was one of the factors that led to the breakdown of the negotiations.

Walt Thompson stated in writing that Danny was the source of his information that the child molestation allegations were 30 years old, and that it was all due to a feud between Dryden and Tommy. Of course that's a lie since Dryden's 2003 letter indicates that there are allegations as recent as 2000 or so, and since Dryden lived hundreds of miles away from Tommy until 8 years after Tommy's ordination was suspended in 1985 over these allegations.

Hear say? How so?

Danny himself indicated that he is trying to hide the profits, estimated by one influential person to be hundreds of thousands of dollars, that he made off those books. Do you doubt Danny's word about his trying to hide the profits? If so, why?

 

[Pickle]

I think I know what the source of your rage is.

Why would you say such a thing?

 

[Jimlarmore]

Frankly, your reply implies that you never read the emails I sent Danny, even though I provided you with the links. The subject of those emails was Tommy, not Linda. Why are you dragging Linda into that specific discussion when she wasn't the topic of the discussion?

I did read the e-mails you sent and the response Danny gave to you Bob. How would I even know your name is Bob if hadn't. I'm not dragging Linda into this, you are. Nearly every post you have made is about Linda and Danny's fight over guns and car titles. You are the one making a major case out of silly piddly things. You know what, this responding to you is about as rediculous as your tirades about Danny are.

More importantly, why are you pulling a Danny Shelton on us? Ask Danny about Tommy, and he brings up Linda. Ask Danny about royalties, and he brings up Linda. Ask Danny about anything and he brings up evil, sinister, corrupt Linda. Why are you doing what Danny Shelton does?

I don't know but logic tells me that maybe most of this got it's start with Linda and what she is accusing Danny of. I'm not that sure about the Tommy fiasco but this other stuff is just diatribe plain and simple.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Sophia7]

Let's see how inconsistent I am. Danny Shelton began over 22 years ago to build a T.V. network ministry to spred the undiluted three angels messages to the entire world. Miracle after miracle came about to make this happen over time. Today , the ministry still relies on the Lord to provide every need financially each month. IOW, they have no money in the bank but they somehow manage to pay huge bills amounting to more than a quarter of a million a month.

Read this official document from the State of Illinois Department of Revenue, and tell us if you still think that 3ABN is just barely getting by financially. It includes financial details from the years 2000 and 2001. I would like to see a statement from 3ABN about where their profits are going since they claim to be a charitable organization. Some accountability and transparency to their donors should be standard practice for an organization like this.

Here is the bottom line on their profits for those two years (pp. 16-17):

59. According to applicant’s audited financial statement, applicant had total revenues and other support in 2000 of $14,452,519.91. Total expenses were $13,239,904.62 for a net profit of $1,212,615.29. Under the sub-category entitled “Schedule of Supporting Service
Expenses,” the amount of $4,098,620.61 is listed; of that amount $1,802,307.48 is shown as wages. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 14)

60. For 2001, applicant’s total revenue and other support were $13,935,318.64. Applicant’s total expenses were $11,940,167.11 for a net profit of $1,995,151.53. Under the sub-category entitled “Schedule of Supporting Service Expenses,” $4,026,680.45 is listed; of that amount, $1,219,639.23 is shown as wages. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 15)
​

And here are the conclusions of the State of Illinois (pp. 44-46):

In its analysis of the use of the subject properties, the court found that the applicant was a religious organization; however, the court went on to state that the second prong of the test for a property tax exemption is whether the use of the property complied with the necessary section of the statutes. This does not violate an individual’s or organization’s rights to practice religion as it neither assesses the inherent validity of the belief structure nor determines whether the particular conduct conforms to the standards or purposes of a religious group. Id. at 772-774.

Similarly, in this case, an analysis of applicant's use of the property is necessary. The case is also not about whether or not what the applicant is doing is good for people. No one disputes that family oriented programming is positive and that applicant’s programming is family oriented and includes programming intended to further physically healthy lifestyles. However, contrary to applicant’s assertions, these types of programming conducted on a property do not, ipso facto, result in a tax exemption for that property.

Danny and Linda Shelton have control of applicant. They regulate the amount they are paid. They have control of programming. They regulate all contracts. Applicant uses this property to produce television programs, to sell equipment, radio and television time, and to sell merchandise, and, absent evidence to the contrary, sales are made at commercially competitive prices.

While a significant portion of the materials may incidentally relate to religious topics, applicant is a radio and television/satellite broadcasting, sales, and publishing corporation that sells, markets and/or otherwise distributes its products to outside entities or individuals. Outside entities are attracted to the content of applicant’s programs that are consistent with the tenets of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, yet the existence of this religiously-oriented client base does not impute upon applicant the characterization that applicant is, itself, a religious institution using the subject property in furtherance of religious or charitable activities.

Applicant filed a “Motion For Leave To File Instanter” requesting that I consider two Department of Revenue administrative decisions, Basilean Films Foundation, Inc. v. The Department of Revenue of the State of Illinois, Docket No. 93-22-344 and Muhammad’s Holy Temple of Islam v. The Department of Revenue of the State of Illinois, Docket No. 01-PT-0061. The motion was granted by the order dated July 28, 2003. In Basilean Films, a religious and
charitable organization owned a house and used a portion of it for writing, producing, and editing religious video tapes, audio tapes, and books for Christian organizations world-wide. Those sections of the house qualified for a property tax exemption. The areas of the house used primarily for residential purposes did not qualify for exemption.

In Muhammad’s Holy Temple of Islam, an Islamic organization owned a three-story building that was used for training in the Islamic religion. At hearing, Muhammad’s Holy Temple established that it was, in fact, a religious Islamic organization and that the training was an essential part of its religious purposes.

The Department, as shown by these cases, grants exemptions for religious organizations that use property for exempt religious purposes and not with a view to profit. As discussed above, applicant is not only not a religious organization, but, more importantly, does not primarily use the property for religious purposes without a view to profit.

For the aforementioned reasons it is recommended that Franklin County Parcel Index No. 174-116-11 remain on the tax rolls for the 2000 and 2001 assessment years and be assessed to the applicant, the owner thereof, except for the two pastor’s offices, each measuring 14 feet by 18 feet, on the second floor of the administrative production center building, and a corresponding amount of land. That area, I recommend, be granted a property tax exemption as used for religious purposes without a view to profit.

Respectfully Submitted,
Barbara S. Rowe
Administrative Law Judge
January 28, 2004
​

 

[Jimlarmore]

Why would you say such a thing?

The Bible tells me to look for fruits. Think about what you have done so far here. Have you uplifted the ministry of 3ABN? Have you by doing this glorified the Lord? I'm not trying to be obusive here and if you have taken it that way I apologize but you are like a rabid dog when it comes to this. Maybe you need to really evaluate what you are trying to do here. What do you see what you are doing now to eventually produce? If you don't know for sure what you are talking about then don't talk. No one knows for sure if Linda had an affair and may never. A lot of the stuff you are putting out you have heard or read from someone else. Why not take Danny at his word until he proves he is untrustwothy?

These other things you insist on bringing up are not worth the ink you are laying out to build them up. So what if Danny said that the reason Linda and his marriage was over with was because she hid his gun? What does that have to do with real notible corruption at 3ABN? Nothing, nothing at all. I say let the elders of the church and the divorce courts handle it. Why make a federal case out of the private lives of the Shelton's? This stuff doesn't need to be spred all over the internet.

I said before that I wasn't going to respond to this thread anymore but recently as I read the posts mounting up I figured if someone didn't speak out for sanity then all of this crazy/insane character assasination going on would just keep mounting up to do irrepairable harm to 3ABN.

Tommy Shelton is a separate issue for sure. I won't mind discussing that with you further but this other stuff is no longer on the table for you and me or anyone else on this thread.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Sophia7]

Also, see pages 15 and 16 of that document for a breakdown of how much 3ABN charged various entities, including some official GC-sponsored ministries, for airtime.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Read this official document from the State of Illinois Department of Revenue, and tell us if you still think that 3ABN is just barely getting by financially. It includes financial details from the years 2000 and 2001. I would like to see a statement from 3ABN about where their profits are going since they claim to be a charitable organization. Some accountability and transparency to their donors should be standard practice for an organization like this.



Here is the bottom line on their profits for those two years (pp. 16-17):

59. According to applicant’s audited financial statement, applicant had total revenues and other support in 2000 of $14,452,519.91. Total expenses were $13,239,904.62 for a net profit of $1,212,615.29. Under the sub-category entitled “Schedule of Supporting Service​

Expenses,” the amount of $4,098,620.61 is listed; of that amount $1,802,307.48 is shown as wages. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 14)​

60. For 2001, applicant’s total revenue and other support were $13,935,318.64. Applicant’s total expenses were $11,940,167.11 for a net profit of $1,995,151.53. Under the sub-category entitled “Schedule of Supporting Service Expenses,” $4,026,680.45 is listed; of that amount, $1,219,639.23 is shown as wages. (Applicant’s Ex. No. 15)​

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I don't know how many employee's 3ABN has but we certainly can't expect those working there to work for nothing. As far as the carry over, I have heard Danny say many times that they had no extra held over in the bank. Bank deposits and balances are redily available upon demand if you go thru the proper channels. I agree 3ABN should be forth coming to substantiate any profits the ministry carries foward. However, what is the insinuation or point to this? That there should be absolutely no profit carried forward?

And here are the conclusions of the State of Illinois (pp. 44-46):

In its analysis of the use of the subject properties, the court found that the applicant was a religious organization; however, the court went on to state that the second prong of the test for a property tax exemption is whether the use of the property complied with the necessary section of the statutes. This does not violate an individual’s or organization’s rights to practice religion as it neither assesses the inherent validity of the belief structure nor determines whether the particular conduct conforms to the standards or purposes of a religious group. Id. at 772-774.​

Similarly, in this case, an analysis of applicant's use of the property is necessary. The case is also not about whether or not what the applicant is doing is good for people. No one disputes that family oriented programming is positive and that applicant’s programming is family oriented and includes programming intended to further physically healthy lifestyles. However, contrary to applicant’s assertions, these types of programming conducted on a property do not, ipso facto, result in a tax exemption for that property.​

Danny and Linda Shelton have control of applicant. They regulate the amount they are paid. They have control of programming. They regulate all contracts. Applicant uses this property to produce television programs, to sell equipment, radio and television time, and to sell merchandise, and, absent evidence to the contrary, sales are made at commercially competitive prices.​

While a significant portion of the materials may incidentally relate to religious topics, applicant is a radio and television/satellite broadcasting, sales, and publishing corporation that sells, markets and/or otherwise distributes its products to outside entities or individuals. Outside entities are attracted to the content of applicant’s programs that are consistent with the tenets of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, yet the existence of this religiously-oriented client base does not impute upon applicant the characterization that applicant is, itself, a religious institution using the subject property in furtherance of religious or charitable activities.​

Applicant filed a “Motion For Leave To File Instanter” requesting that I consider two Department of Revenue administrative decisions, Basilean Films Foundation, Inc. v. The Department of Revenue of the State of Illinois, Docket No. 93-22-344 and Muhammad’s Holy Temple of Islam v. The Department of Revenue of the State of Illinois, Docket No. 01-PT-0061. The motion was granted by the order dated July 28, 2003. In Basilean Films, a religious and​

charitable organization owned a house and used a portion of it for writing, producing, and editing religious video tapes, audio tapes, and books for Christian organizations world-wide. Those sections of the house qualified for a property tax exemption. The areas of the house used primarily for residential purposes did not qualify for exemption.​

In Muhammad’s Holy Temple of Islam, an Islamic organization owned a three-story building that was used for training in the Islamic religion. At hearing, Muhammad’s Holy Temple established that it was, in fact, a religious Islamic organization and that the training was an essential part of its religious purposes.​

The Department, as shown by these cases, grants exemptions for religious organizations that use property for exempt religious purposes and not with a view to profit. As discussed above, applicant is not only not a religious organization, but, more importantly, does not primarily use the property for religious purposes without a view to profit.​

For the aforementioned reasons it is recommended that Franklin County Parcel Index No. 174-116-11 remain on the tax rolls for the 2000 and 2001 assessment years and be assessed to the applicant, the owner thereof, except for the two pastor’s offices, each measuring 14 feet by 18 feet, on the second floor of the administrative production center building, and a corresponding amount of land. That area, I recommend, be granted a property tax exemption as used for religious purposes without a view to profit.​

Respectfully Submitted,​

Barbara S. Rowe​

Administrative Law Judge​

January 28, 2004​

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So they have to pay property tax now. How does this show any kind of corruption or under handed dealings? I think the ruling is probably correct unless they change the way they are operating.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

Also, see pages 15 and 16 of that document for a breakdown of how much 3ABN charged various entities, including some official GC-sponsored ministries, for airtime.

Without knowing how much it costs to run a T.V. station or associated costs it would be less than charitable for anyone to condemn a number alone without understanding the justifying reason for the charge.

God bless
Jim Larmore