3abn Continued

[Sophia7]

If you take a close look at the quote in red above it shows blatantly how off base a court ruling can get. By definition of law this ruling states that 3ABN is not a religious organization , yet at it's very core and being everything they do outside of selling religious material is religious in nature. The ruling is to determine a non-taxable status for the property and says the property is not used for "religious purposes" yet the property houses many buildings that SDA congregations use regularly for camp meetings/ church services/Sabbath school and church school activities. Not to mention all of the activities centered around religious programing. I've had 3ABN for over two years now and not one time have I felt like I was viewing anything but a religious station dedicated to the glory of God and speading the good news of the gospel.

You folks want a real bottom line? Use the common sense God gave us all and think about this. The State of Illinios and it's counties are about collecting taxes for revenue amoung many other things. The only reason 3ABN lost their tax exempt status is they are not actually and officially a church run organization but a private one. The fact they make a little money above expenses can't be the deciding factor because many churches have huge profits above expenses and many pastors make six figure incomes plus in other denominations.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

My point to Rosie was that the State of Illinois isn't doing what she says they are doing (ensuring that 3ABN is upright in how they use donations). The State of Illinois doesn't have the interests of 3ABN's donors or viewers/listeners in mind; they are concerned about their own laws and tax interests. That's why I would like to see some kind of statement from 3ABN that addresses these issues specifically.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

If you read the above quote in red it shows blatantly how off base a court ruling can get. By definition of law this ruling states that 3ABN is not a religious organization ,yet at it's very core and being everything they do outside of selling religious material is religious in nature. The ruling is to determine a non-taxable status for the property and says the property is not used for "religious purposes" yet the property houses many buildings that SDA congregations use regularly for camp meetings/ church services/Sabbath school and church school activities.

You folks want a real bottom line? Use the common sense God gave us all and think about this. The State of Illinios is about collecting taxes for revenue amoung many other things. The only reason 3ABN lost their tax exempt status is they are not actually and officially a church run organization but a private one. The fact they make a little money above expenses can't be the deciding factor because many churches have huge profits above expenses and many pastors make six figure incomes plus in other denominations.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

This is wrong. the Isssue is not weather it is Religous in nature but , FOR PROFIT or NOT FOR PROFIT. there are other not for profit religious business that have been declare in the state of illinois, but some how the judge is stupid when it come to 3ABN. It is not about religous content, there are plenty of for profit religious orginzation. It is about to WHO and to WHERE the money goes. it goes to danny personally not back into the business first

 

[Adventist Dissident]

They spread the SDA gospel, yes. It's a 24/7 promotion of the SDA church and its own gospel.

and what an embarrasment.

 

[DarylFawcett]

I must say that I am personally disappointed in the responses by Jim Larmore, especially where he is supposed to be an unbiased former police investigator.

 

[Jimlarmore]

My point to Rosie was that the State of Illinois isn't doing what she says they are doing (ensuring that 3ABN is upright in how they use donations). The State of Illinois doesn't have the interests of 3ABN's donors or viewers/listeners in mind; they are concerned about their own laws and tax interests. That's why I would like to see some kind of statement from 3ABN that addresses these issues specifically.

Financial audits are very specific on what they are looking for and what they address/point out. If you think the audits made by the agencies (contracted firms by the state of Illinois ) making them are inadequate or improper then you need to address that issue. These audits should be public knowledge and available if properly requested. From what I have seen so far you have not presented an audit here showing illicit use of donated funds at all. The only thing I have read so far is a court ruling by an administrative judge taking away their tax exempt status on their property only. That particular document says nothing at all about transactional day to day activities within the organization of 3ABN.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I must say that I am personally disappointed in the responses by Jim Larmore, especially where he is supposed to be an unbiased former police investigator.

me too. i expected better

 

[Jimlarmore]

This is wrong. the Isssue is not weather it is Religous in nature but , FOR PROFIT OR OR NOT FOR PROFIT. there are other not for profit religious business that have been declare in the state of illinois, but some how the judge is stupid when it come to 3ABN. It is not about religous content, there are plenty of for profit religious orginzation. It is about to WHO and to WHERE the money goes. it goes to danny personally not back into the business first

That's a pretty hefty accusation to make without having any documentation to proove it. Nothing in the court ruling said anything about where the money went and into whose pockets it landed. The point I was making was the dicotomy of reality in the ruling which said 3ABN was not a religious organization and didn't conduct religious activities on it's property. My response to that was that it was obviously slanted and basically untrue because of what 3ABN does in it's operations. The proof is in the pudding.

Maybe you need to show us what you are talking about, other wise you are doing nothing more than making insultive and possibly liabless statements against Danny Shelton and 3ABN in general.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Sophia7]

Financial audits are very specific on what they are looking for and what they address/point out. If you think the audits made by the agencies (contracted firms by the state of Illinois ) making them are inadequate or improper then you need to address that issue. These audits should be public knowledge and available if properly requested. From what I have seen so far you have not presented an audit here showing illicit use of donated funds at all. The only thing I have read so far is a court ruling by an administrative judge taking away their tax exempt status on their property only. That particular document says nothing at all about transactional day to day activities within the organization of 3ABN.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I didn't say that any audits were improper or that 3ABN has done anything illicit with donations, only that I want to see a statement from 3ABN to address the questions that people have raised regarding how contributions are distributed and how profits are used.

 

[Sophia7]

That's a pretty hefty accusation to make without having any documentation to proove it. Nothing in the court ruling said anything about where the money went and into whose pockets it landed. The point I was making was the dicotomy of reality in the ruling which said 3ABN was not a religious organization and didn't conduct religious activities on it's property. My response to that was that it was obviously slanted and basically untrue because of what 3ABN does in it's operations. The proof is in the pudding.

Maybe you need to show us what you are talking about, other wise you are doing nothing more than making insultive and possibly liabless statements against Danny Shelton and 3ABN in general.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

The ruling doesn't say that 3ABN doesn't conduct religious activities on its property. The ruling says that 3ABN doesn't conduct religious activities on its property without a view to profit. That's a big difference.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

This is wrong. the Isssue is not weather it is Religous in nature but , FOR PROFIT or NOT FOR PROFIT. there are other not for profit religious business that have been declare in the state of illinois, but some how the judge is stupid when it come to 3ABN. It is not about religous content, there are plenty of for profit religious orginzation. It is about to WHO and to WHERE the money goes. it goes to danny personally not back into the business first

what you are seeing is RADICAL DOUBT. common sense tells you that a for profit is for making money and the proceeds will first go to the owner, the he can diecide what to do with the money. A non-profit bussines it goes to the company first, last and only.

 

[Jimlarmore]

what you are seeing is RADICAL DOBHT. common sense tells you that a for profit is for making money and the proceeds will first go to the owner, the he can diecide what to do with the money. A non-profit bussines it goes to the company first, last and only.

No, not necessarily, 3ABN has a board of directors that everyone answers to on a regular basis. What you are doing is making some wild speculations to impune Danny Shelton. Without having figures in front of you to show what you are saying is true you don't really know now do you? This is character assasination at the least and attempted rhetorical lenching at the most.

Common sense tells me that a person has to make a living at what they do. Common sense tells me that anyone who runs a concern like 3ABN would realize they can't get by with pocketing huge profits selfishly and not get caught by mandated periodic audits or an astute and reasoning board of directors. You want to talk about common sense let's talk.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

I didn't say that any audits were improper or that 3ABN has done anything illicit with donations, only that I want to see a statement from 3ABN to address the questions that people have raised regarding how contributions are distributed and how profits are used.

And this is completely reasonable to ask. Let us know if and when you hear from them. I'm a contributor to the ministry would like to see the spread sheet on this myself.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Adventist Dissident]

No, not necessarily, 3ABN has a board of directors that everyone answers to on a regular basis. What you are doing is making some wild speculations to impune Danny Shelton. Without having figures in front of you to show what you are saying is true you don't really know now do you? This is character assasination at the least and attempted rhetorical lenching at the most.

Common sense tells me that a person has to make a living at what they do. Common sense tells me that anyone who runs a concern like 3ABN would realize they can't get by with pocketing huge profits selfishly and not get caught by mandated periodic audits or an astute and reasoning board of directors. You want to talk about common sense let's talk.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

jim your weight is clearly behind 3ABN, No matter what. It is true that a business has to be profitable, you cant run in debt. but that does not mean the company must be structured in such a way as to all one person to profit or have all the say. see documents that sophia attatched

 

[Sophia7]

And this is completely reasonable to ask. Let us know if and when you hear from them. I'm a contributor to the ministry would like to see the spread sheet on this myself.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

So far no word, but I'll let you know if I hear something.

 

[DarylFawcett]

If you receive a positive response, I will be surpised, however, after saying this, I hope you will.

 

[StormyOne]

I must say that I am personally disappointed in the responses by Jim Larmore, especially where he is supposed to be an unbiased former police investigator.

On the internet you can never be certain who you are really talking to..... just cause they say what they are doesn't mean they are.....

 

[Jimlarmore]

jim your weight is clearly behind 3ABN, No matter what. It is true that a business has to be profitable, you cant run in debt. but that does not mean the company must be structured in such a way as to all one person to profit or have all the say. see documents that sophia attatched

The board of directors are fully aware of the profit and expense ledgers of 3ABN. You make it sound like Danny is the only one to receive donated funds there, that is just not right. You say I'm behind 3ABN no matter what. I'm behind what is right, fair and reasonable. If something truely wrong is going on at 3ABN I will be behind and supporting a correction for it. If Tommy is guilty of criminal activity I think he should at least be sued for it since the statutes of limitation have run out. He should be made to register as a sex offender and kept away from children at 3ABN.

On the other hand it seems to me that a good possibility exists that some of this may be a bunch of smoke. There are easy ways to determine who is lying or who isn't on these matters. If Tommy is willing to submit to a lie detector test to clear his name on this then that could change the nature of some of these accusations. IOW, If Tommy passes then the accusations would be viewed as suspect. If it was me who was being accused on this and I knew I was innocent I would be about having one run asap.

I think the main problem I have with you, Fawcet and Bob Pickle is you are so eager to assassinate the character of a man of God and in the process impune the ministry of 3ABN. Honestly, I could care less if Danny told Linda that because she hid his gun that their marriage was over. I could care less if Danny found a pregnancy test or lied about a car title or any of that mess. Today folks divorce all the time in our church for reasons that are outside of Biblical grounds. I don't know any of them that have been dropped from the church records for it.

I thought for awhile real corruption was going to be unveiled on Danny, then you guys come up with this. I've seen this over and over again in our churchs. When a divorce happens a bunch will side with one and a bunch will side with the other and a split can occurr in an entire congregation. When it comes to divorces it's best not to take sides. Besides, I doubt very seriously if you or any of the other accusers stand justified and without any sin, able to point a finger at Danny. Remember when you point a finger at someone there are three of your other fingers pointed back at you.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Jimlarmore]

On the internet you can never be certain who you are really talking to..... just cause they say what they are doesn't mean they are.....

My law enforcement experience was a long time ago. I am not currently a cop. I do still think like one though in a lot of ways. You can call the Cleburne Police Dept. in Cleburne Texas and find my employment dates with them. I think they should be public record. I was also a deputy sheriff for Johson County for 3 years under Sheriff Stuart Huffman back in the 70's. A lot of things I may be but a liar isn't one of them.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[Rosie55]

My law enforcement experience was a long time ago. I am not currently a cop. I do still think like one though in a lot of ways. You can call the Cleburne Police Dept. in Cleburne Texas and find my employment dates with them. I think they should be public record. I was also a deputy sheriff for Johson County for 3 years under Sheriff Stuart Huffman back in the 70's. A lot of things I may be but a liar isn't one of them.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I agree with you Mr. Larmore. If Tommy Shelton is guilty, then he needs to be brought to justice.

And Danny and Linda's divorce needs to be left alone.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I think the main problem I have with you, Fawcet and Bob Pickle is you are so eager to assassinate the character of a man of God and in the process impune the ministry of 3ABN.

i think you have hit your problem on the head. you have judged our motives and you have been reacting ever since. I have not been quick to destroy Danny's character and i don't want to.
It Was not until July of 06 that I had a leaning one way or the other. that is over 2 years after the event. so you need to get your facts straight before you start ascribing motive. Daryl has been on this thing since it started and I have read his post in other forums and He has not be quick to judge. If any one has tried to be fair it is Tirl. he has repeatedly called for people to not jump to conclusion without evidence. He has examined this over and over again from different angles.

As far as the accusaction the we want to Impung Dannys Charater is like Pot calling the kettle black. Danny want every one to believe that Linda is an Adulteress BY HIS WORD ALONE. He wants to impugn the character of LINDA and use the WORLD WIDE RESOUCES of 3ABN trash on her. when asked to produce EVIDENCE he refuses to do So, but like a parrot, just repeats that Linda is guilty, linda is guilty, linda is guilty, polly want a craker, linda is guilty.

I see another problem you are having. You are linking Danny and 3ABN too closely. God can be with 3ABN and not in favor of Danny's actions. It is the Israel and David situation. God was with Israel, but not with King David when he committed adultery and murdered Uriah. they are 2 separate things.

You stated something earlier that I have been meaning to address, but have not had the opportunity. I think you have shown a cynical side that needs to be address. You stated in you experience that those who commit adultery rarely if ever admit they are guilty and so linda's statements about her guilt or innocence. should be discounted. The problem it that those who don't commit adultery are going to deny it too. so the admission or denial is not what you look at it is the evidence.

Jim I personally don't think you care about what happened to Linda or the truth. I think you just care about you own personal needs. You keep appealing to you own personal blessings you revcieve from 3abn. You don't want ot mess that up. Your unwillingness to even consider that Danny my be guilty is troubling. The Evidence is against Him. How danny explains how adultery occurred when linda and the Dr. were on 2 different continents is beyond me. that is a major blow to him. I have considered the fact that lInda might be guilty, but the motive is not there, the means is not there and the opportunity is not there. and the evidence is not there. all the evidence point to danny lying. I am sorry that is hard for you to accept and may wrinkle you world a little, that is the cost of doing good. Doing good an telling the truth is not an option.