3abn Continued (2)

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tomatoe

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Originally Posted by
And BTW, Danny did say he was going overseas in the very near future. I think he said China & Taiwan could he be avoiding all the chaos this landslide will bring or possibly lawsuits or worse or less? who knows. I'm sure he needs a break for whatever reason.

On Business TM. Try not to get too excited about it. Also it was hong kong and Taiwan. He has to go to many different countries to see about the possibilities of contracts, negotiations, etc etc for getting 3abn there.
All this bologne about running from a lawsuit because Linda got a new lawyer is again, ridiculous. So what? 3abn has had a team of lawyers for months now. Putting all of these posts together from here and bsda here is what you guys have come up with.
ASI, AF, THE general Conference and the boards of both ministries have gotten together in less than a week to come up with a plan to 1. Make DS step down, 2. Take over 3abn, 3. Cover up allegations against 3abn, or 4. The other groups named "forced" Doug to merge with 3abn for well we don't know why......continued

All of the above happened almost overnight and the decisions will affect the entire Seventh Day Adventist denomination around the world, but, it was all done as a secret conspiracy and all the above named people and organizations were a party to it, because.....Linda got a new lawyer.

Man...you guys are like Sherlock Holmes.
 
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PeacefulSDA

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tomatoe,
1. Mollie S. told Gregory Matthews that Danny told the 3abn board that he wants to step down.
2. Gregory Matthews said both ministries would continue but under the unified leadership of Doug Batchelor.
3. Steffan says he was told Doug does not believe the allegations and shrugs off the ones behind the allegations.
4. Who is saying the other groups have "forced" Doug to merge with 3abn? That is news to me. The only ones I have seen saying that are you and Steffan.

Click here to read what was actually said on BSDA

Someone did speculate this was as a result of Linda's new lawyer. That someone was mistaken in his speculation, obviously.
 
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tomatoe

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tomatoe,
1. Mollie S. told Gregory Matthews that Danny told the 3abn board that he wants to step down.
2. Gregory Matthews said both ministries would continue but under the unified leadership of Doug Batchelor.
3. Steffan says he was told Doug does not believe the allegations and shrugs off the ones behind the allegations.
4. Who is saying the other groups have "forced" Doug to merge with 3abn? That is news to me. The only ones I have seen saying that are you and Steffan.

Click here to read what was actually said on BSDA

Someone did speculate this was as a result of Linda's new lawyer. That someone was mistaken in his speculation, obviously.


GREG M made those statements before the live. Mollie mispoke or Greg took her words wrong. Regardless it was straightened out before the live where you saw plainly that DS is going nowhere. Doug and Danny both, might eventually give their general managers a little more administrative power to free them up to evangelize in their own ways. Danny has had less and less time for programming the last few years which is why you see other hosts a lot of time on the live. He hopes to get back to hosting more often and interviewing guests. Even though he already travels a lot, that will probably increase also if he can get out from under the mountains of paperwork. Doug also hopes to do more programming and I am sure more of his revivals will be in the works. Doug will stay in sacramento and keep his church there. DS and 3abn will stay in southern IL. The plan at this point is for 3abn to become 3abn amazing facts but in probability will eventually just go back to 3abn period since that name is more known world wide.

As far as the "forced" thing with Doug. I said that because I have read several comments of people saying "Doug looked caged" and Doug looked uncomfortable. What is the insinuation there? Obviously that he didn't want to do this. My point was how could that be? This was his choice. Nobody could make him do it or would even try to make him so why the ridiculous comments about him looking uncomfortable. They are both very happy to fullfill what they have been talking about doing for quite some time. Lots of details have been worked out and there are many more to go. Even their titles are not in stone yet. All they want people to understand, at this point, is that both ministries will function the same in day to day operations. Each leader at his own ministry. Doug will not be making rules for 3abn and Danny will not be for AF. Both are trying to free themselves up from some of the administrative duties, not add to them.

And, it is true that Doug , amazing facts or his board are not concerned with internet allegations. Doug has worked closely enough with 3abn and DS through the years to know that these are rumors and speculation and sometimes out and out lies. He has spent weeks at a time at the facility and his conclusions speak for themselves. His board also, voted unanimously to merge with 3abn. They obviously didn't have reservations either. MMM I do believe that they know a lot more of the true facts than the everday posters here, who swear that 3abn is corrupt. That always amazes me when most have had no experience with 3abn or the people involved at all.

Folks, save your time and energy by taking this merger as a wonderful world wide soul winning tool for the Adventist Denomination. You can accuse, twist, spin and throw around speculations all you want but it doesn't change the simple truth that it is, what it is, take it at face value...something wondeful.
 
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PeacefulSDA

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GREG M made those statements before the live. Mollie mispoke or Greg took her words wrong. Regardless it was straightened out before the live where you saw plainly that DS is going nowhere. Doug and Danny both, might eventually give their general managers a little more administrative power to free them up to evangelize in their own ways. Danny has had less and less time for programming the last few years which is why you see other hosts a lot of time on the live. He hopes to get back to hosting more often and interviewing guests. Even though he already travels a lot, that will probably increase also if he can get out from under the mountains of paperwork. Doug also hopes to do more programming and I am sure more of his revivals will be in the works. Doug will stay in sacramento and keep his church there. DS and 3abn will stay in southern IL. The plan at this point is for 3abn to become 3abn amazing facts but in probability will eventually just go back to 3abn period since that name is more known world wide.

As far as the "forced" thing with Doug. I said that because I have read several comments of people saying "Doug looked caged" and Doug looked uncomfortable. What is the insinuation there? Obviously that he didn't want to do this. My point was how could that be? This was his choice. Nobody could make him do it or would even try to make him so why the ridiculous comments about him looking uncomfortable. They are both very happy to fullfill what they have been talking about doing for quite some time. Lots of details have been worked out and there are many more to go. Even their titles are not in stone yet. All they want people to understand, at this point, is that both ministries will function the same in day to day operations. Each leader at his own ministry. Doug will not be making rules for 3abn and Danny will not be for AF. Both are trying to free themselves up from some of the administrative duties, not add to them.

And, it is true that Doug , amazing facts or his board are not concerned with internet allegations. Doug has worked closely enough with 3abn and DS through the years to know that these are rumors and speculation and sometimes out and out lies. He has spent weeks at a time at the facility and his conclusions speak for themselves. His board also, voted unanimously to merge with 3abn. They obviously didn't have reservations either. MMM I do believe that they know a lot more of the true facts than the everday posters here, who swear that 3abn is corrupt. That always amazes me when most have had no experience with 3abn or the people involved at all.

Folks, save your time and energy by taking this merger as a wonderful world wide soul winning tool for the Adventist Denomination. You can accuse, twist, spin and throw around speculations all you want but it doesn't change the simple truth that it is, what it is, take it at face value...something wondeful.

Tomatoe, what I have not personally been able to conclude from your post is how the merger is going to make things any different than they are at the present time. Here is a recap of your post:

Both Doug and Danny "might eventually" give their GM's "a little more administrative power" so they can evangelize in their own ways.
Both ministries will remain in their home locations.
Titles for Doug and Danny are not yet set in stone.
Both ministries will function the same in day to day operations.
Both will remain the leaders of their own ministries.
Doug will not be making rules for 3abn and Danny will not be for AF.
Both are trying to free themselves up from some of the administrative duties, not add to them.

So, what has this merger actually accomplished besides the possible temporary name change to 3abn Amazing Facts? We know from the Live program that the two boards may have some member changes as they merge together. But, after reading the key points of your post, what else is really changing? Even the stated goal on the Live program of combining forces for evangelism seems unlikely since you say they will continue to "evangelize in their own ways".

It appears that Doug Batchelor's schedule is the biggest change in this merger because he will be spending a lot of time traveling back and forth from California to Illinois. Or will he even be doing that?

At this point, from what you have shared in your post, this merger between 3abn and Amazing Facts appears to be a change in name only. What do they hope to accomplish by this admittedly temporary name change? Will it add dollars to either coffer? Will it give either ministry more credibility. After carefully watching the Thursday evening Live program and now reading your post, the whole point of the merger seems rather unclear.

 
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Pinkpanther007

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Danny needs to get on the coat tails of the credibility that Doug has, and Doug needs to tap into the infrastructure that Danny has, IMO.

Tomatoe previously said that a handover of the title of President of 3ABN is in title only and does not include the position. I think Tomatoe was probably right.
 
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PeacefulSDA

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Danny needs to get on the coat tails of the credibility that Doug has, and Doug needs to tap into the infrastructure that Danny has, IMO.

Tomatoe previously said that a handover of the title of President of 3ABN is in title only and does not include the position. I think Tomatoe was probably right.
So if your assessment is correct, Doug's efforts in this merger would make the 3abn technology, etc., the 3abn infrastructure, available for his Amazing Facts ministry and Danny and the 3abn ministry could benefit from a public relations standpoint with a boost in credibility that Doug and his ministry would bring. So, from that perspective the merger makes sense.

That further explains tomatoe and Steffan posting about Doug dismissing the allegations of pastoral abuse.
 
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Pinkpanther007

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It is my opinion that Tomatoe's statement regarding the presidency of 3ABN makes good sense. If Doug takes the title without the position it gives 3ABN the credibility that they don't have under Danny, yet it leaves Danny in charge as the defacto president. Sleight of hand by a miracle worker, if Tomatoe is correct.
 
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tomatoe

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So if your assessment is correct, Doug's efforts in this merger would make the 3abn technology, etc., the 3abn infrastructure, available for his Amazing Facts ministry and Danny and the 3abn ministry could benefit from a public relations standpoint with a boost in credibility that Doug and his ministry would bring. So, from that perspective the merger makes sense.

That further explains tomatoe and Steffan posting about Doug dismissing the allegations of pastoral abuse.


I do not know how to make this anymore simple.
1. This merger has been tossed around for several years.
Conclusion: 3abn had plenty of credibility and still does and therefore, doesn't need to ride any coat tails.
2. The merger won't change anything to speak of in day to day operations.
Conclusion: Doug and Danny are busy enough with their own ministries without adding more work to each others.
3. What will change? If nothing, why do it?
Conclusion: What will change will be the scope and vision combining Doug's evangelistic and speaking talents with Danny's vision to evangelize the world. 2 heads are better than one as they say. These 2 men working together along with ASI will be producing ideas, locations, new evangelistic series, new programs, while keeping up with constant changing technology to make these visions a reality. Some of the people at 3abn have great ideas on making these things happen. People at AF have great ideas on how to make these things happen. By pooling those heads and ideas together, you have a never ending resource of ways to evangelize the globe. Once a few plans have been constructed they can go before the board, be discussed, and decisions can be made on how to go forward.

This merge was not sudden. This merge had nothing to do with saving either ministry, when both are plenty succesful in their own right. This merge had nothing to do with Danny making a move to step down. This move, in no way, makes it possible for AF to move in and move Danny or 3abn out. Contractually, AF cannot do that to 3abn, nor can 3abn do that to AF. No organizations can merge without safeguards being in place. Danny remains CEO of 3abn, Doug remains director and speaker of AF. Jointly, Doug may hold the title of president of the combined organizations while Danny holds CEO and founder of the joint organizations.
Clarification again and one of the only main and important points I have tried to get across here: Because the ministries have merged to make global evangelizing a possibility, that, in noway changes the way that each ministry is run in day to day operations. Each man will head up his own operations as usual.
Again, THEY DID NOT MERGE to try to run each other's ministries, the merged to have better ideas, resources and means to take the gospel to the world.
 
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tomatoe

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It is my opinion that Tomatoe's statement regarding the presidency of 3ABN makes good sense. If Doug takes the title without the position it gives 3ABN the credibility that they don't have under Danny, yet it leaves Danny in charge as the defacto president. Sleight of hand by a miracle worker, if Tomatoe is correct.


That is your spin. Please read my detailed post above for clarification.
 
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Pinkpanther007

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That is your spin. Please read my detailed post above for clarification.
I read it. Correct my memory it is wrong, but as I recall what was said on the Thursday night live, Danny said that the idea of a merger came very recently, not several years ago. Garwin connected Danny and Doug on this idea, they quickly met in Denver, the 3ABN board convened to take a vote at an unscheduled meeting on
Monday, on Wednesday the Amazing Facts board had an unscheduled meeting to take their vote, and the next day it was announced. So, according to Danny and Doug it was a quick thing that happened over a short period of time, as opposed to several years.

Regardless, if you are right that the title of president will not include the position if conferred on Doug, it is just something fake that will fool some people into thinking that Doug is in charge at 3ABN when he is not. That is if you are correct.
 
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tomatoe

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I read it. Correct my memory it is wrong, but as I recall what was said on the Thursday night live, Danny said that the idea of a merger came very recently, not several years ago. Garwin connected Danny and Doug on this idea, they quickly met in Denver, the 3ABN board convened to take a vote at an unscheduled meeting on
Monday, on Wednesday the Amazing Facts board had an unscheduled meeting to take their vote, and the next day it was announced. So, according to Danny and Doug it was a quick thing that happened over a short period of time, as opposed to several years.

Regardless, if you are right that the title of president will not include the position if conferred on Doug, it is just something fake that will fool some people into thinking that Doug is in charge at 3ABN when he is not. That is if you are correct.


Doug will be president/speaker of the merger. He will not run 3abn. I have repeated it over and over.
You left out part of what was said on the live. That DS and Doug had talked about this off and on for several years before they decided to take action. Doug had been invited several times to do this but felt the timing wasn't right. Now, he felt it was.
It seems you are obsessed with who gets to be what. When I said titles are just titles I meant it in the aspect that neither man would be running each others ministry. That is simple, clear and concise and there is no more to read into it.
 
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Pinkpanther007

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Doug will be president/speaker of the merger. He will not run 3abn. I have repeated it over and over.
You left out part of what was said on the live. That DS and Doug had talked about this off and on for several years before they decided to take action. Doug had been invited several times to do this but felt the timing wasn't right. Now, he felt it was.
It seems you are obsessed with who gets to be what. When I said titles are just titles I meant it in the aspect that neither man would be running each others ministry. That is simple, clear and concise and there is no more to read into it.
Was this off and on talk over a couple of years about a merger or was it about Doug coming to 3ABN?

What I recall Danny saying on Thursday night was that he was giving the presidency of 3ABN to Doug. I don't recall him saying that it was the presidency of "the merger." Titles are important. They tell the viewers and other people who is running the organization. If a title is conferred without the position it serves to decieve the people into being comfortable that a person is in charge when he is not. This is the scenario that you are giving.
 
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tomatoe

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Was this off and on talk over a couple of years about a merger or was it about Doug coming to 3ABN?

What I recall Danny saying on Thursday night was that he was giving the presidency of 3ABN to Doug. I don't recall him saying that it was the presidency of "the merger." Titles are important. They tell the viewers and other people who is running the organization. If a title is conferred without the position it serves to decieve the people into being comfortable that a person is in charge when he is not. This is the scenario that you are giving.


The scenerio I am giving is that doug will be president/speaker and Danny will be Ceo/founder of the merged orginizations but they weil retain their seperate identities and ministries in day to day operations.
When you marry, you enter in a union but, you still retain your seperate identities and roles in that marriage. If anyone was trying to be deceitful with that, I wouldn't be on here right now explaining it.
 
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PeacefulSDA

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The scenerio I am giving is that doug will be president/speaker and Danny will be Ceo/founder of the merged orginizations but they weil retain their seperate identities and ministries in day to day operations.
When you marry, you enter in a union but, you still retain your seperate identities and roles in that marriage. If anyone was trying to be deceitful with that, I wouldn't be on here right now explaining it.
tomatoe,
In a healthy marriage, you do retain your separate identities but you usually live in the same house. Bi-coastal relationships rarely do well. I just couldn't resist having a bit of fun with your analogy. But, of course, your point is taken.
 
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PeacefulSDA

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Tomatoe,
A new member over on BSDA, Grith, watched the Live program and asked some good questions. Could you provide any answers?

Grith said:
I watched the program Thursday evening (thanks to seeing the announcement at BSDA). I've been reading the responses here, but I heard something that no one has commented on thus far. Danny stated that there had been a secret meeting in Denver with himself, DB, and Garwin McNeilus. That brought a few questions to mind:
  1. Why did they have to meet with McNeilus? I know that he is very wealthy and apparently that gives him a lot of clout?
  2. Why was it immportant to meet with McNeilus? Why was his input/counsel/approval needed?
  3. Why was the meeting secret. From what I remember DS said that even Molly didn't know.
  4. Why would it be so important to get one layman's OK but not all those other who are or have supported AF/3ABN?
Does anyone have any ideas?

Any illumination you can provide would be very helpful.

Thanks
 
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Rosie55

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Tomatoe,
A new member over on BSDA, Grith, watched the Live program and asked some good questions. Could you provide any answers?

Grith said:


Any illumination you can provide would be very helpful.

Thanks
I think I can add a #5 to the list of questions:

Why is this anyone's business? What difference does this all make? Why keep trying to find dirt? You'll find something to make look bad at 3abn anyway no matter how tomatoe answers.

Everyone is so bent on getting into nit-picky details. When there is a merge like this, some things take time. So for some answers, some will just have to wait.
 
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tomatoe

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Tomatoe,
A new member over on BSDA, Grith, watched the Live program and asked some good questions. Could you provide any answers?

Grith said:


Any illumination you can provide would be very helpful.

Thanks

Rosie is correct. There will be plenty of details that will still need to be worked out in the future. These things take time.
McNeilus was there because his family is heavily involved in ASI as well as world wide missions. His input was needed as to what involvement ASI might have in this merger. Also, to be able to bring the message into more and more global locations could have a direct influence on all of the mission work that the McNeilus's do in third world countries. It is a great decision for all concerned to have Mr. Mcneilus's input.

WHy the secrecy? To try to keep the false rumors, stories and allegations down to a minimum until the merger announcement was made. On these forums it has been bad enough as it is.
 
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PeacefulSDA

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I think I can add a #5 to the list of questions:

Why is this anyone's business? What difference does this all make? Why keep trying to find dirt? You'll find something to make look bad at 3abn anyway no matter how tomatoe answers.

Everyone is so bent on getting into nit-picky details. When there is a merge like this, some things take time. So for some answers, some will just have to wait.
Rosie,
The questions were raised in Grith's and others' minds because Danny announced on worldwide television that Garwin McNeilus attended the meeting in Denver. Why is it a bone of contention to want to find out what capacity he was there in?

I brought it over here from BSDA to try to get straight answers to honest questions instead of settling for speculation.

As far as nit-picky details, I can hear and understand your frustration. I believe the way the whole thing was reported in the first place set the tone for discussion on the matter to go in that direction. And I'm not speaking of the manner that Greg M. introduced it. I think he attempted to bring the information out in a non-biased way.

I have, frankly, had a hard time making what I heard on the Live program mesh with what I have heard reported by both sides here and on BSDA. After watching the Live program I had some questions. Then, tomatoe posted some of his information and it just didn't seem to fit with what I had heard on the program. It actually raised more questions in my mind so I asked questions to try to understand. I know part of what is being posted by some is spin and agenda, and perhaps I have even participated in that to some degree although I have tried not to.

I have tried, from early on Thursday, as soon as I saw the email for GAJ, to get to the real story of this merger. I have taken information from tomatoe and others back and forth between forums in this attempt and to try to head rank speculation off before it had a chance to spin to wildly out of control. Others have been attempting to do this same thing. I have tried to be honest and straight with my questions and have appreciated some of the straight answers I have gotten in return.

I know this merger, as with any other, will take time but why should it be a problem to want to understand what the basic point of this merger is to be?
 
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PeacefulSDA

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Rosie is correct. There will be plenty of details that will still need to be worked out in the future. These things take time.
McNeilus was there because his family is heavily involved in ASI as well as world wide missions. His input was needed as to what involvement ASI might have in this merger. Also, to be able to bring the message into more and more global locations could have a direct influence on all of the mission work that the McNeilus's do in third world countries. It is a great decision for all concerned to have Mr. Mcneilus's input.

WHy the secrecy? To try to keep the false rumors, stories and allegations down to a minimum until the merger announcement was made. On these forums it has been bad enough as it is.
tomatoe,
Thank you. That certainly directly explains Garwin McNeilus' reason for being at the Denver meeting. I think many folks know about his passion for global mission work. It makes sense that he would be there in his ASI capacity as well.

I also understand the reason for the secrecy. However, I believe, and also mentioned to Grith earlier over on BSDA, that Danny said on the Live program that Mollie was about the only person at 3abn who was aware of the point of the Denver meeting.

If your answer is not yet posted over at BSDA, I will get it over there now.

Thanks again.
 
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tomatoe

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tomatoe,
Thank you. That certainly directly explains Garwin McNeilus' reason for being at the Denver meeting. I think many folks know about his passion for global mission work. It makes sense that he would be there in his ASI capacity as well.

I also understand the reason for the secrecy. However, I believe, and also mentioned to Grith earlier over on BSDA, that Danny said on the Live program that Mollie was about the only person at 3abn who was aware of the point of the Denver meeting.

If your answer is not yet posted over at BSDA, I will get it over there now.

Thanks again.

I believe Mollie was one of the only ones that new what the meeting was about. Both parties wanted to explore the possiblities before taking it back to their respective boards.

I have tried to be as informative and open as I possibly can with what I understand to be correct at the present time. If I have made a mistake in my explanations in anyway or if things change as details are ironed out, then I apologize now. It has not been purposely. So far what I have given you are the facts, as I know them to be.
 
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