3abn Continued (2)

[DarylFawcett]

This thread was split automatically after 1000 replies and this thread has been automatically created.
The old thread automatically closed is here: "3abn Continued"

 

[Princessdi]

Nice to see that everyone takes a breakf or the Sabbath! Happy Sabbath Everyone!

 

[Cliff2]

http://www.christianforums.com/t4811533&page=85

In a law suit there will be evidence presented that is called "discovery" evidence that will make or break a case concerning libel. Unless you have documented those contacts you claim you made then you may be libel for slander against Tommy. As far as Danny and Linda goes most of that is going to fit into a libel case and can most likely be proved as such in a court of law. Primarily because of the nature of the way all of this was all presented. The fact you never have known for sure most of the information you have put out puts you in jeopardy my friend. I hope you have a good attorney.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

I'm not trying to bring 3ABN down.

I see from your profile that you are from Australia. This sort of discussion came up at Maritime too, with a fellow named Weetbix also from Australia. Weetbix had a hard time understanding how American law works, and thus you may have a difficulty too.

Weetbix didn't seem to understand the concept of statute of limitations. If the statute of limitations has run out, which differs from state to state, no charges can be filed, period. I believe in Illinois child molestation charges now have to be filed by the time the alleged victim turns 28, or the perpetrator walks, scott free.

Roger Clem came forward in 2003. He was 16 in 1988. Thus he did not come forward until it was too late to press charges.

Personally, I think it inappropriate for anyone to criticize any of these guys for being so slow to come forward and press charges unless they themselves have been victimized and know what it's like to come forward.

But frankly, I do not know who all has talked to the authorities and who hasn't, in either IL or VA. I know Brad Dunning and his relatives did in 1982 or 1983 or thereabouts. And the letter suspending Tommy's ordination in 1985 refers to some sort of investigation at that time. (Pickle)

I do not know exactly when it was all supposed to have taken place. So I cannot shed any light in that area.

I do see much truth in what Jim is saying and I have said the same now for a long time.

This whole case has been in front of us now for nearly 12 months and sweet nothing has changed.

Either they should come up with the charges or let it die a quick death.

Nothing at all is going to happen unless charges are made and Tommy is found to be guilty.

Until then he is not guilty. That is the law as I understand it to be.

 

[dclem]

I do not know exactly when it was all supposed to have taken place. So I cannot shed any light in that area.

I do see much truth in what Jim is saying and I have said the same now for a long time.

This whole case has been in front of us now for nearly 12 months and sweet nothing has changed.

Either they should come up with the charges or let it die a quick death.

Nothing at all is going to happen unless charges are made and Tommy is found to be guilty.

Until then he is not guilty. That is the law as I understand it to be.

What you "understand" is totally irrelevant. You have no idea whether charges are in the works or not.

 

[tomatoe]

What you "understand" is totally irrelevant. You have no idea whether charges are in the works or not.

DC, You repeatedly get angry at those that are just quoting the law in these situations, and what is realistic and what is not, according to the law. If you want to focus your anger on the law, go ahead, many do, but the messenger hardly deserves it.
Of course if charges are in the works, (By law, I can't imagine what those charges would be considering your age and the age of the alleged events) then we will wonder what happened to your "I only want an apology" statements.

 

[Cliff2]

What you "understand" is totally irrelevant. You have no idea whether charges are in the works or not.

This is what I have said all along. If Tommy is to be charged then go ahead and do it.

Stop all the complaining here and charge the man.

Then all can have their day in court.

If he does not get charged then how can he defend himself and how can we klnow what the truth really is.

 

[PeacefulSDA]

DC, You repeatedly get angry at those that are just quoting the law in these situations, and what is realistic and what is not, according to the law. If you want to focus your anger on the law, go ahead, many do, but the messenger hardly deserves it.
Of course if charges are in the works, (By law, I can't imagine what those charges would be considering your age and the age of the alleged events) then we will wonder what happened to your "I only want an apology" statements.

tomatoe,
When I read your post it reminds me of some made by Peach45 yesterday. Both of you seem to "get angry" at Duane and take to task those who are supporting and encouraging him. Both of you, by your questions and comments, are doing your level best to attempt to call his credibility into question.

Why?

1. Anyone who has read the emailed "confession" Tommy sent to Duane in 2005 can clearly see that Duane was a victim of pastoral sexual abuse. Tommy was a pastor, he admits to having a problem and verifies that Duane resisted every advance he made

From: "Tommy Shelton"To: "Duane CLem"Subject: Re: HelloDate: Mon, 13 Jun 2005 20:53:09 -0500

Hi Duane,
I received your e-mail a couple of days ago. I guess you sent it longer ago than that, but I am not home several days a week. It sounds like you are doing what makes you the happiest - being involved in Gospel music.
Duane, I have spent the last several years trying to straighten my life out. As you well know, I had a big problem and should have gotten help years ago or got out of the ministry. To be honest, I really didn't know that I needed help then, but of course I know now. At the time, I knew that I loved God and wanted to help people, but my problem always got in the way.
You will remember that before I went to D.C. I apologized to you and told you that I wanted to make a new start and I have been trying to do that ever since. I've been honest with my wife, whom I almost destroyed with what I did.
I have been honest with her that some inappropriate things happened between you and me - all my fault - and I also told her that you resisted every attempt that I ever made. You and I both know that is true. I know now that I took advantage of how much you cared for me, and I am shocked that you will even speak to me.
Because of what I have done to Carol, you and others, it is not good for me or you to try to rekindle a friendship. Please understand, the last thing I want to do is hurt you more. I've hurt you enough for a life time. I'm sure that you have felt that I have abandoned you, and you are right, that was part of my sickness - run when things got hot. For all of this, Duane, I am so sorry.
If it would help you with some of the hurt you have experienced, Carol and I are both willing to sit and talk to you. Although Carol was very hurt at you for several years for continuing to be friends with me when you knew she didn't want us together, she too has been working on finding healing and has forgiven us both. Naturally she could never be comfortable with me having a one on one friendship with any one from the past, she is willing, however, to do what ever she can to help if you may be still carrying some scars from my relationship with you.
Carol may possibly write to you too, just letting you know that we do care what happens to you and if there is anything we can do together to help, or help make things right, we are willing to do. If you need to ask her anything, we share the same e-mail account.
I do thank you for the many years that you were a friend to me. I loved your mother deeply and cared for all of your family. It is unbelievable that I could make such a mess out of everything. I hope you can someday find it in your heart to forgive me - I am really trying to do right.
Tommy

http://www.save3abn.com/tommy-shelton-confession.htm

2. Is it going to help to rebuild Tommy's reputation by attacking Duane and minimizing what he has gone through?

3. Are you aware of how trying to discredit Duane is reflecting on the two of you or anyone else who participates in the attacks on this victim of pastoral sexual abuse? What do you think it says about you? Some reading here might even begin to think that you are trying to shame Duane back into silence, a tactic often used in the dysfunctional systems that protect abusers. I would hope that you and Peach45 would not want to be thought about in that way.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4811533&page=97

As I pointed out, from my own personal experience I have come to believe that recovery from abuse is a process. It is not inconsistant for the victim's feelings to change as awareness increases.

 

[truthmagnet]

DC, You repeatedly get angry at those that are just quoting the law in these situations, and what is realistic and what is not, according to the law. If you want to focus your anger on the law, go ahead, many do, but the messenger hardly deserves it.
Of course if charges are in the works, (By law, I can't imagine what those charges would be considering your age and the age of the alleged events) then we will wonder what happened to your "I only want an apology" statements.

that has been addressed and explained over and over again. why do you keep bringing it up? (no reply needed)

 

[truthmagnet]

I didn't get a chance to reply to Jim Larmore's post towards me before the thread got closed so I am posting a review of the exchange. I apologize for the length of this post. I believe it is nessessary to understand the exchange and the brunt of his insults.

My points I want to emphasize are in blue and
Mr.Larmore's posts I want to emphasize are in red.


Quote: truthmagnet (this post was in response to mr. larmore's constant invalidation of the sexual abuse victims suggesting that the victim's posts were ruining TS's life)
if tommy is suffering, he brought it on himself. that is not the victims fault. it sounds like you are trying to make them feel guilty because tommy is going through a hard time. have you thought about how hard a time these boys have gone through and how hard a time they will continue to go through? it doesn't matter to me if tommy apologised and made offers of counseling to his victims. he could buy them each a lotus and that would not make things all better.he should be punished for what he's done (alleged) by civil law.any suffering he is going through right now is of his own doing and these young men are NOT responsible for that. they have a right to yell from the highest hill for as long as they want in my opinion. whatever they have to do, that helps them recover as long as it's honest, is fine in my book. This is not their shame. It belongs to their abuser.


Quote: Jim Larmore
An attempt at righting a wrong should never be cast aside.If we have the love of Christ in our hearts we should always be willing to forgive as Christ told us to. If Christ assumed this position or posture for us we would be doomed to death. The reality is Christ said if we want forgiveness we are to forgive.
I can only speak for my impression of the one I have communicated with but he seems to be ok right now. He certainly does not feel the need to have councelling of any kind and he is very adament about that. He actually said it was no big deal at one point but now has made it a big deal in a lot of ways. I think he is a pawn of the players in this saga to keep the fires of denigration going. As far as punishing Tommy goes I think that needs to be done or persued by the victims not us. It's not our place to do what we are doing here. What we have done here without proper evidence to do is despicable to me. I have not seen the Lord glorified in much of this at all. Instead I have seen nothing but hate, contention and mud slinging. Who do you think that really glorifies?
God Bless
Jim Larmore

Quote: truthmagnet
Mr. Larmore, you have insulted me and you have insulted this young man you refer to. first of all i said nothing about accepting forgiveness or giving forgiveness.i said "i didn't care if he apologised.....i didn't care if he bought them a Lotus......" what i was emphasising (as is clear to see when it's in context!!) is that that, to me, dosn't make it a "done deal". an apology in a letter?? are you kidding me? do you actually believe that is enough. that that should be it? that that should heal all wounds and these guys should go on their way? as i've said before here, you are really out of touch in this situation and you have no room to be piouswhen you are on here everyday saying things that are hurting people just as much as you think "we" are hurting TS. i've been on here for about a month and time and time again you say things like this and these young men and people who have been there totally disagree with you but you keep on. You just don't get it so you need to let this one go.
i also said in my post "alleged" in reference to TS. i have not branded him and cruicified him as you would paint it. the evidence is overwhelming in my opinion and anyone who has any "Gay-dar" can see the propensity. He was a Preacher Mr. Larmore.

I said: it doesn't matter to me if tommy apologised and made offers of counseling to his victims. he should be punished for what he's done (alleged) by civil law.

Mr. Larmore said:
"I think he is a pawn of the players in this saga to keep the fires of denigration going. "

I say:
"That Mr. Larmore is AN INSULT to this young man's character, his reputation and his validity".

Mr. Larmore said:
"I did not insult DClem"

Mr Larmore said:
"I know a little about it,I used to investigate these cases as a law enforcement officer. ["a little bit" is even an exaggeration. you say this as if it gives you some credibility and makes you an authority. your posts say just the opposite. for someone in 'law enforcement' you are not very honest in your editing of the context of "copied" quotes. ]
Laying all of that aside you have said if we don't know what we are talking about we need to move on to something else.
I would suggest sir you take your own advise. DClem was 19 when this happened according to his own admission. This is not child abuse [i never mentioned DClem nor did i mention child abuse]
and DClem wasn't majorly concerned with making a federal case out of what happened until Mr. Pickle got in touch with him. [Prove it. That is an insult to the character and honesty and decency of DClem and he disputes your statement and so do I] If child abuse occurred then that needs to be addressed but
I did not insult DClem [How can you say that? Yes you did insult him]
and I have not addressed you in any way except when you first started to post on this thread against 3ABN and Danny Shelton. [What does that mean?? That makes no sense; " ...not addressed you in any way.....except when you first started to post, etc." Every post I have ever made to you has had to do with your insults, misinformation and hurtful accusations towards the victims in this sexual abuse case.]
Were you sexually abused by Tommy Shelton as a child? [That is a sick, twisted and disgusting thing to say to me. It is repulsive and flaming and you know it!]

 

[Peach45]

tomatoe,
When I read your post it reminds me of some made by Peach45 yesterday. Both of you seem to "get angry" at Duane and take to task those who are supporting and encouraging him. Both of you, by your questions and comments, are doing your level best to attempt to call his credibility into question.

Why?

1. Anyone who has read the emailed "confession" Tommy sent to Duane in 2005 can clearly see that Duane was a victim of pastoral sexual abuse. Tommy was a pastor, he admits to having a problem and verifies that Duane resisted every advance he made


http://www.save3abn.com/tommy-shelton-confession.htm

2. Is it going to help to rebuild Tommy's reputation by attacking Duane and minimizing what he has gone through?

3. Are you aware of how trying to discredit Duane is reflecting on the two of you or anyone else who participates in the attacks on this victim of pastoral sexual abuse? What do you think it says about you? Some reading here might even begin to think that you are trying to shame Duane back into silence, a tactic often used in the dysfunctional systems that protect abusers. I would hope that you and Peach45 would not want to be thought about in that way.

http://www.christianforums.com/t4811533&page=97

As I pointed out, from my own personal experience I have come to believe that recovery from abuse is a process. It is not inconsistant for the victim's feelings to change as awareness increases.

I don't mean to be rude, but many here have had these "experiences" ( myself included) but we don't keep bringing them up, Why? Our personal experience isn't the topic here, P, and we are not blinded by them.

I personally think it is onesided and rude to publish someone's personal e-mail and not the other side.

The fact is Duane answered this e-mail and has not furnished it, and I have grown irritated enough here to say that is because it paints things a bit differently.

And those on the higher road are not into violating privacy rights and betraying secrets...

The best we can do is ask Duane as he's the one who handed over Tommy's alleged email to him to publish, what he said in reply and how he answered and hope he has a conscience enough to answer, He has so far refused to do so.

Why don't you try P?

I understand if you might not want to.

Sometimes it's easier to attack or find fault with another then to try and see things from a different point of view, or to consider both sides in a unbiased manner...

 

[franny]

DC, You repeatedly get angry at those that are just quoting the law in these situations, and what is realistic and what is not, according to the law. If you want to focus your anger on the law, go ahead, many do, but the messenger hardly deserves it.
Of course if charges are in the works, (By law, I can't imagine what those charges would be considering your age and the age of the alleged events) then we will wonder what happened to your "I only want an apology" statements.

Tomatoe;

Are you any relation to Dan Quail's Potatoe family? I just couldn't resist asking that! Sorry about that.

Now, back to the subject.

Do you have children? It says you are married, but what would you do if you had a son in puberty where all their hormones are raging wild.

When the pastor says, come on over to the Gym and we will shoot some hoops; would you just drop your son off at the gym ans go on your way, all the time feeling safe that the pastor is there. Besides it is all guys anyway.

Now, several years have passed and your child is a man and you find out what that pastor that you trusted did. What would you do about that? It is now too late to press charges.

Would you just pack it in and tell your son, "Hey, that's the breaks! Pick your chin up and just get over it."

"So what if other boys were affected! That is their problem! Let them deal with it best they can, we just can't get involved!"

The pastor continues his reign over the kids for years and years. Now there are many people saying they were molested too. Do you stay silent or do you scream at the top of your lungs to help protect other children.

Hey, you could always hire him to get involved with 3ABN's "Kid's Time" like Danny did even though he knew Tommy had a problem!

No need to ask! I do get angry when I read your insulting posts. It is clear you have never been affected by sexual abuse! I would say it is you that does not have a clue!

At the save 3ABN site some new material has been added. Barbara Kerr mentions a number of people that know Danny committed adultery while married to Linda. Very interesting. It looks as if this is coming to a head.

There will be fallout. I suggest we all put on the armor of God as protection when the sky falls.

 

[Cliff2]

Tomatoe;

Are you any relation to Dan Quail's Potatoe family? I just couldn't resist asking that! Sorry about that.

Now, back to the subject.

Do you have children? It says you are married, but what would you do if you had a son in puberty where all their hormones are raging wild.

When the pastor says, come on over to the Gym and we will shoot some hoops; would you just drop your son off at the gym ans go on your way, all the time feeling safe that the pastor is there. Besides it is all guys anyway.

Now, several years have passed and your child is a man and you find out what that pastor that you trusted did. What would you do about that? It is now too late to press charges.

Would you just pack it in and tell your son, "Hey, that's the breaks! Pick your chin up and just get over it."

"So what if other boys were affected! That is their problem! Let them deal with it best they can, we just can't get involved!"

The pastor continues his reign over the kids for years and years. Now there are many people saying they were molested too. Do you stay silent or do you scream at the top of your lungs to help protect other children.

Hey, you could always hire him to get involved with 3ABN's "Kid's Time" like Danny did even though he knew Tommy had a problem!

No need to ask! I do get angry when I read your insulting posts. It is clear you have never been affected by sexual abuse! I would say it is you that does not have a clue!

At the save 3ABN site some new material has been added. Barbara Kerr mentions a number of people that know Danny committed adultery while married to Linda. Very interesting. It looks as if this is coming to a head.

There will be fallout. I suggest we all put on the armor of God as protection when the sky falls.

Your question is purely hypothetical so if I were you I would probably not expect to get an answer.

But if it did happen to me then I would be asking the questions a long time ago.

Such as when the son was dropped off.

No one can be trusted; those often who are closest are sometime the worst offenders. More care has to be taken with them than usual.

Over and over again this has been the case. Just because they hold positions of trust does not mean they can be trusted.

 

[Cliff2]

I have kids and before any of this was brought to my notice I always stayed with my kids when they were at sports training.

Their training was always out in the open where ther risk is reduced.

Pools, gymnasiums etc are places where things go wrong.

 

[Peach45]

Tomatoe;
he pastor continues his reign over the kids for years and years. Now there are many people saying they were molested too. Do you stay silent or do you scream at the top of your lungs to help protect other children.

Fran,

No one has said anything about anybody else, speaking for myself that is because I don't know who they are or what the circumstances are.

No, I don't believe Duane Clem has a case, and even if he did it isn't a child molestation situation.

That says nothing about anyone else.

Child molestation is what you have all been screaming at the top of your lungs about this whole past year, and nothing has been done and it's protecting zero children!

Why can you not encourage them to go to the civil authorities and file a report?

It does no good to write things against people here, when the facts aren't even known, and the accused doesn't even get to face his accusers and know what the accusations are either, or get a opportunity to defend himself, so that the truth can be determined in a court of law.


It's been said over and over again.

Report this to the authorities, if there is merit to any of it.

If not, it is slander and libel we are dealing with...

Just like a whole lot more which is claimed on that website...

 

[truthmagnet]

AMEN franny, you have hit the preverbial nail on it's preverbial head ! God bless you !

Tomatoe;

Are you any relation to Dan Quail's Potatoe family? I just couldn't resist asking that! Sorry about that.

Now, back to the subject.

Do you have children? It says you are married, but what would you do if you had a son in puberty where all their hormones are raging wild.

When the pastor says, come on over to the Gym and we will shoot some hoops; would you just drop your son off at the gym ans go on your way, all the time feeling safe that the pastor is there. Besides it is all guys anyway.

Now, several years have passed and your child is a man and you find out what that pastor that you trusted did. What would you do about that? It is now too late to press charges.

Would you just pack it in and tell your son, "Hey, that's the breaks! Pick your chin up and just get over it."

"So what if other boys were affected! That is their problem! Let them deal with it best they can, we just can't get involved!"

The pastor continues his reign over the kids for years and years. Now there are many people saying they were molested too. Do you stay silent or do you scream at the top of your lungs to help protect other children.

Hey, you could always hire him to get involved with 3ABN's "Kid's Time" like Danny did even though he knew Tommy had a problem!

No need to ask! I do get angry when I read your insulting posts. It is clear you have never been affected by sexual abuse! I would say it is you that does not have a clue!

At the save 3ABN site some new material has been added. Barbara Kerr mentions a number of people that know Danny committed adultery while married to Linda. Very interesting. It looks as if this is coming to a head.

There will be fallout. I suggest we all put on the armor of God as protection when the sky falls.

 

[truthmagnet]

Fran,

".....No, I don't believe Duane Clem has a case, and even if he did it isn't a child molestation situation....
Child molestation is what you have all been screaming at the top of your lungs about this whole past year, and nothing has been done and it's protecting zero children!
Why can you not encourage them to go to the civil authorities and file a report?
It does no good to write things against people here, when the facts aren't even known, and the accused doesn't even get to face his accusers and know what the accusations are either, or get a opportunity to defend himself, so that the truth can be determined in a court of law....

I always liked TS and admired his talents. My soul ached and I wept the first time I heard these accusations. so...........

I am now issuing a Formal Invitation to TS to come one here and defend himself.


I truly and sincerely would love to hear what he has to say and I pray that if he does, that everyone will be as kind to him as they have been to these 'alleged' victims of not only child abuse but emotional manipulation for reasons of sexual molestation and sexual misconduct.

 

[Cliff2]

Fran,

No one has said anything about anybody else, speaking for myself that is because I don't know who they are or what the circumstances are.

No, I don't believe Duane Clem has a case, and even if he did it isn't a child molestation situation.

That says nothing about anyone else.

Child molestation is what you have all been screaming at the top of your lungs about this whole past year, and nothing has been done and it's protecting zero children!

Why can you not encourage them to go to the civil authorities and file a report?

It does no good to write things against people here, when the facts aren't even known, and the accused doesn't even get to face his accusers and know what the accusations are either, or get a opportunity to defend himself, so that the truth can be determined in a court of law.


It's been said over and over again.

Report this to the authorities, if there is merit to any of it.

If not, it is slander and libel we are dealing with...

Just like a whole lot more which is claimed on that website...

Very wise suggestion, reort the abuse to the authorities and see what they say.

So far we have not heard if it has even been reported.

What was their reaction if it has been reported.

 

[tomatoe]

Tomatoe;

Are you any relation to Dan Quail's Potatoe family? I just couldn't resist asking that! Sorry about that.

Now, back to the subject.

Do you have children? It says you are married, but what would you do if you had a son in puberty where all their hormones are raging wild.

When the pastor says, come on over to the Gym and we will shoot some hoops; would you just drop your son off at the gym ans go on your way, all the time feeling safe that the pastor is there. Besides it is all guys anyway.

Now, several years have passed and your child is a man and you find out what that pastor that you trusted did. What would you do about that? It is now too late to press charges.

Would you just pack it in and tell your son, "Hey, that's the breaks! Pick your chin up and just get over it."

"So what if other boys were affected! That is their problem! Let them deal with it best they can, we just can't get involved!"

The pastor continues his reign over the kids for years and years. Now there are many people saying they were molested too. Do you stay silent or do you scream at the top of your lungs to help protect other children.

Hey, you could always hire him to get involved with 3ABN's "Kid's Time" like Danny did even though he knew Tommy had a problem!

No need to ask! I do get angry when I read your insulting posts. It is clear you have never been affected by sexual abuse! I would say it is you that does not have a clue!

At the save 3ABN site some new material has been added. Barbara Kerr mentions a number of people that know Danny committed adultery while married to Linda. Very interesting. It looks as if this is coming to a head.

There will be fallout. I suggest we all put on the armor of God as protection when the sky falls.

First of all, you have no idea what I have been through or not been through. I don't cry about my life on the internet for all to see. Why? Because telling all on the internet brings no resolution or solutions whatsoever and in fact, turns the whole situation into a circus.
Now, you ask If I had kids and what if....then you said if I found out when the boy had become a man etc etc.
The subject here was Duane and he was already a man when the alleged events happened. Big difference.
As far as the other rubbish you are trying to bring here, good luck to those who will have to prove it. Danny knows it isn't true, Linda knows it isn't true but obviously is willing to do or say anything to get her revenge. Anyone who testifies to such, including her, is a liar and will be proven as such. It is so easy to accuse anybody of anything on the internet. The burden of proof as Jim L has told us is on the ones making the accusations. Spouting them on the internet and proving something in a court of law are two totally different things. Those "witnesses" you refer to better think twice about lying under oath. That is a serious matter.

 

[truthmagnet]

Lies..............absolutely vile opinion. if you are trusting Jim L's. advice then I seriously question your agenda here.

First of all, you have no idea what I have been through or not been through. I don't cry about my life on the internet for all to see. Why? Because telling all on the internet brings no resolution or solutions whatsoever and in fact, turns the whole situation into a circus.
Now, you ask If I had kids and what if....then you said if I found out when the boy had become a man etc etc.
The subject here was Duane and he was already a man when the alleged events happened. Big difference.
As far as the other rubbish you are trying to bring here, good luck to those who will have to prove it. Danny knows it isn't true, Linda knows it isn't true but obviously is willing to do or say anything to get her revenge. Anyone who testifies to such, including her, is a liar and will be proven as such. It is so easy to accuse anybody of anything on the internet. The burden of proof as Jim L has told us is on the ones making the accusations. Spouting them on the internet and proving something in a court of law are two totally different things. Those "witnesses" you refer to better think twice about lying under oath. That is a serious matter.

 

[tomatoe]

Your question is purely hypothetical so if I were you I would probably not expect to get an answer.

But if it did happen to me then I would be asking the questions a long time ago.

Such as when the son was dropped off.

No one can be trusted; those often who are closest are sometime the worst offenders. More care has to be taken with them than usual.

Over and over again this has been the case. Just because they hold positions of trust does not mean they can be trusted.

I agree with you. I would have been asking questions a long time ago and since Fran likes hypotheticals.....What if the "victim" in question was a grown man that drove himself (no need for dropping off) to the alleged different meeting places, of his own free will and his own accord? No matter what was going on mentally in his head the actions are why that I agree with Peach. He doesn't have a case.