3 1/2 years...

[Douggg]

It is the 'rapture to heaven' believers false idea, made to support their fanciful notion of sitting in heaven while the Jews face tribulation on earth. No scripture supports any of it.

It is not just the Jews, but everyone on the earth...

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

 

[keras]

It is not just the Jews, but everyone on the earth...
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

This scripture does not prove a 'rapture to heaven'. Thinking that being kept from means removal from, is a contradiction to the many verses that say we must stand strong during all that must happen before Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:10, confirmed by verse 11 of your own quote; hold fast to your faith.....

 

[iamlamad]

This scripture does not prove a 'rapture to heaven'. Thinking that being kept from means removal from, is a contradiction to the many verses that say we must stand strong during all that must happen before Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:10, confirmed by verse 11 of your own quote; hold fast to your faith.....

Context is everything. In this case "kept from" means escape, which we find in Luke 21. If you choose not to escape, that is up to you. Why then would you wish to steal that God given escape from others - trying to convince them Luke was mistaken?
Readers, there IS an escape, and Luke 21:36 proves it. And that escape is found in 1 Thes. 4 & 5. We get raptured while those in darkness get the sudden destruction.

If someone wishes to stay behind and see if then can survive Paul's sudden destruction, that is between them and God. But don't try to talk others into believing they MUST experience this sudden destruction! No no no! The sudden destruction is opposed to the rapture - it is one or the other. Therefore, CHOOSE RAPTURE and escape!

 

[Douggg]

This scripture does not prove a 'rapture to heaven'. Thinking that being kept from means removal from, is a contradiction to the many verses that say we must stand strong during all that must happen before Jesus Returns. Revelation 13:10, confirmed by verse 11 of your own quote; hold fast to your faith.....

Revelation 13:10, having missed the rapture, there will be a multitude who will become Christians during the great tribulation.

In Luke 21:36 to stand before the Son of Man - is to be in heaven.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The ones who do not believe in Jesus, and are not looking for the rapture, and who are saying peace and safety at the time -

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 

[keras]

Readers, there IS an escape, and Luke 21:36 proves it.

Context is everything, you say? Just when it suits you, it seems.

Luke 21:36 Be on the alert, praying at all times for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming...… REBible
There is no 'escape', as in a rapture to heaven in that verse. Proved by the preceding verse that plainly says the Lord's wrath will come upon everyone the whole world over.

If someone wishes to stay behind and see if then can survive Paul's sudden destruction, that is between them and God.

Please cease this foolish and childish notion of consigning those who challenge your beliefs to tribulation and worse. You are NOT the Judge.

Revelation 13:10, having missed the rapture, there will be a multitude who will become Christians during the great tribulation.

Sheer Dougggish fiction.
Proved by Revelation 13:3b, how the whole world will admire the 'beast'. There will be very few, if any converts after the Anti-Christ rises to power.

 

[iamlamad]

Revelation 13:10, having missed the rapture, there will be a multitude who will become Christians during the great tribulation.

In Luke 21,36 to stand before the Son of Man - is to be in heaven.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

The one who do not believe and Jesus, and are not looking for the rapture, and who are saying peace and safety at the time -

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Exactly what the scriptures tell us! Good job.

 

[iamlamad]

Context is everything, you say? Just when it suits you, it seems.

Luke 21:36 Be on the alert, praying at all times for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming...… REBible
There is no 'escape', as in a rapture to heaven in that verse. Proved by the preceding verse that plainly says the Lord's wrath will come upon everyone the whole world over.

Please cease this foolish and childish notion of consigning those who challenge your beliefs to tribulation and worse. You are NOT the Judge.

Sheer Dougggish fiction.
Proved by Revelation 13:3b, how the whole world will admire the 'beast'. There will be very few, if any converts after the Anti-Christ rises to power.

It seems every Greek manuscript uses the same Greek word: ekfugein
"Pass safely through" is simply a VERY poor translation.

Strongs: Escape:
to flee out of, flee away
to seek safety in flight
to escape

"The world over" is true, being scripture - but you missed the main point: those who escape will NO LONGER BE "in the world" or "the world over."

If you wish to remain on earth while the Bride escapes to heaven, that is between you and God. I am choosing to escape to heaven and wait out the wrath of God from there.

 

[Douggg]

Sheer Dougggish fiction.
Proved by Revelation 13:3b, how the whole world will admire the 'beast'. There will be very few, if any converts after the Anti-Christ rises to power.

The person will have become the beast in Revelation 13 - with 42 months in the 7 years. He is the Antichrist while he is the King of Israel, prior to becoming the beast.

Biblically, he first comes to power as the little horn, before becoming the Antichrist.

little horn - then Antichrist - then the beast.

 

[iamlamad]

Context is everything, you say? Just when it suits you, it seems.

Luke 21:36 Be on the alert, praying at all times for the strength to pass safely through all that is coming...… REBible
There is no 'escape', as in a rapture to heaven in that verse. Proved by the preceding verse that plainly says the Lord's wrath will come upon everyone the whole world over.

Please cease this foolish and childish notion of consigning those who challenge your beliefs to tribulation and worse. You are NOT the Judge.

Sheer Dougggish fiction.
Proved by Revelation 13:3b, how the whole world will admire the 'beast'. There will be very few, if any converts after the Anti-Christ rises to power.

You have this all wrong! You are writing things contrary to the word of God. You don't agree with me, because you don't agree with the Word of God rightly understood. God has made an ESCAPE. If you can't believe it, then it is plain you will not get to escape. As I said, that is between you and God.

For the readers, there IS an escape. It is NOT a passing safely through. Paul said those living in the light get caught up, to avoid the wrath of God. Don't be one living in darkness, so you cannot escape His wrath!

Again you are missing the truth of scripture. AFter being "caught up" the Bride is no longer in the world. God is speaking to those left behind at the pretrib rapture. It will be those who are "in the world."

Does it just go right over your head that those who attend the marriage and supper in heaven are ALREADY THERE. How did they get there? By way of rapture. Don't even imagine those at the marriage are only the dead in Christ! Jesus will bring those with Him when He comes FOR His bride.

 

[BABerean2]

Again you are missing the truth of scripture. AFter being "caught up" the Bride is no longer in the world. God is speaking to those left behind at the pretrib rapture. It will be those who are "in the world."

The truth is found in the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which was fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

The truth found in these passages destroys the Two Peoples of God doctrine, and its pretrib removal of the Church.

The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.
Therefore, it cannot end before the Second Coming of Christ.

What you are promoting is some forrn of Dual Covenant Theology.

.

 

[Douggg]

The truth is found in the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34,

Jeremiah 31:31-34 speaks about the rapture?

Iamlamad is talking about the rapture, escaping the great tribulation.

Do you think that Jeremiah 31:31-34 cancelled the great tribulation?

 

[BABerean2]

Jeremiah 31:31-34 speaks about the rapture?

Iamlamad is talking about the rapture, escaping the great tribulation.

Do you think that Jeremiah 31:31-34 cancelled the great tribulation?

Absolutely.

Some of those who are a part of the New Covenant Bride of Christ will still be alive, when the event in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 occurs.

Since we find those under the blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11, his claim that the Church escapes the tribulation falls apart, based on Jeremiah 31:31-34.
A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.

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[Douggg]

Absolutely.

Some of those who are a part of the New Covenant Bride of Christ will still be alive, when the event in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 occurs.

Since we find those under the blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11, his claim that the Church escapes the tribulation falls apart, based on Jeremiah 31:31-34.
A person cannot be under the blood of the Lamb and not be a part of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ.

.

Aren't you rationalizing? The rapture is not addressed in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

 

[BABerean2]

Aren't you rationalizing?

I hope I am being rational...

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[Douggg]

I hope I am being rational...

.

Jeremiah 31:31-34 does not contain anything about the rapture. Using it to say there is no escape to avoid the great tribulation is like me saying I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch, so it is going to rain tomorrow. There is no rationale connection.

What you're argument really is - there are Christians in Revelation 12:11, so in your interpretation of that passage is that there are Christians present during the great tribulation. Correct?

That verse could apply to the great tribulation, yes, although not exclusive to it.

But it does not mean that there is no escape to avoid the great tribulation, because there will be persons becoming Christians during the great tribulation after the rapture has taken place.

 

[BABerean2]

Jeremiah 31:31-34 does not contain anything about the rapture. Using it to say there is no escape to avoid the great tribulation is like me saying I had a peanut butter and jelly sandwich for lunch, so it is going to rain tomorrow. There is no rationale connection.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:18-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, destroys the Two Peoples of God doctrine.

Without the Two Peoples of God doctrine, there is no pretrib removal of the Church.

This is confirmed by those under the Blood of the Lamb in Revelation 12:11.

Therefore, there is a direct connection between Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Lamad's pretrib doctrine, whether you admit it or not.


You claim the rapture of the Church can happen at "anytime", but is that what you really mean?

.

 

[Douggg]

Without the Two Peoples of God doctrine, there is no pretrib removal of the Church.

Bab2, we are not talking about two peoples of God doctrine. There will be people from all races and ethnic groups who become Christians during the great tribulation.... after the rapture has taken place.

 

[Douggg]

You claim the rapture of the Church can happen at "anytime", but is that what you really mean?

Jesus indicated "anytime" in Luke 21:34-36. That is the basis for the term I use.

Luke 21:
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

_____________________________________________________________________________

1Thessalonians5:

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1Thessalonias4:16

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


BaB2, the rapture is in verse 10, before the beginning of the Day of the Lord...."that day" in Luke 21:34. You can't see that? Do you want to be children of the light or children of darkness?

 

[iamlamad]

Jeremiah 31:31-34 speaks about the rapture?

Iamlamad is talking about the rapture, escaping the great tribulation.

Do you think that Jeremiah 31:31-34 cancelled the great tribulation?

He is frequently coming up with non-sequiturs!

 

[BABerean2]

Jesus indicated "anytime" in Luke 21:34-36. That is the basis for the term I use.

Luke 21:
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

_____________________________________________________________________________

1Thessalonians5:

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.


9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

1Thessalonias4:16

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.


BaB2, the rapture is in verse 10, before the beginning of the Day of the Lord...."that day" in Luke 21:34. You can't see that? Do you want to be children of the light or children of darkness?

How can you claim "anytime" and then turn right around and claim it must be "before" the day of the Lord, instead of admitting it can be on the day of the Lord?

Paul described the event at the end of chapter 4, and then provided the timing of the event in chapter 5.
This is confirmed by the words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10.

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