3 1/2 years...

[iamlamad]

Does a gun go off and then the trigger is pulled? You have it backwards! The trigger is pulled FIRST, and then the gun goes off. In this case, HIS COMING is the trigger, first for the Dead in Christ rising, then those alive and in Christ caught up, and then the start of the Day of the Lord.
This is why Paul said the Day of the Lord comes as a thief: JESUS comes as a thief to trigger these events. So no paradox. That only exists in the minds of those who don't understand.

 

[Douggg]

How can you claim "anytime" and then turn right around and claim it must be "before" the day of the Lord, instead of admitting it can be on the day of the Lord?

.

Because we don't know what day on a timeline when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God triggering "that day". We don't know how far before "that day" the rapture takes place. But most of all, Jesus said "anytime".

Paul described the event at the end of chapter 4, and then provided the timing of the event in chapter 5.

This is confirmed by the words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10.

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Not just "sleep", but also "wake".

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

[Douggg]

.

We are not talking about pre-trib or post-trib. Get a video on the "anytime' rapture view.

The rapture is not said to be "on" the Day of Lord as the commentator is claiming. It is before the Day of the Lord "begins". The great tribulation is at the "beginning' of the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord, in its entirety is eternal.

 

[BABerean2]

Because we don't know what day on a timeline when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God triggering "that day". We don't know how far before "that day" the rapture takes place. But most of all, Jesus said "anytime".



10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Not just "sleep", but also "wake".

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

If you are going to promote the pretrib doctrine, why don't you admit it?

PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418


Lacunza, Manuel, “Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty“
http://www.regal-network.com/dispensationalism/pdfs.htm


Origin of the Pretrib Rapture Doctrine
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/pretrib_history.pdf


Pretribulationist Revisionism
(Grant Jeffrey’s revision of early Church Posttrib viewpoints)
Pastor Tim Warner
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/Jeffrey.pdf

.

 

[Douggg]

If you are going to promote the pretrib doctrine, why don't you admit it?

Pre-trib is a misnomer for pre-70th week. The rapture may happen pre-70th week, or it may not.

 

[iamlamad]

Because we don't know what day on a timeline when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God triggering "that day". We don't know how far before "that day" the rapture takes place. But most of all, Jesus said "anytime".



10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Not just "sleep", but also "wake".

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

If I could guess (that is what many on here do) the rapture will come on the last and final long trumpet blast on the Feast of trumpets. Following that, is the ten days of Awe - a time to repent! I could therefore guess that the 7th seal is opened and the 70th week begins 10 days after the Rapture, while the Day of the Lord begins an instant after the rapture.

I think Paul is telling us that His coming will be the trigger for the Dead in Christ to rise, then those alive and in Christ caught up, signaling the end of the church age, and the Day coming instantly after.

 

[iamlamad]

Pre-trib is a misnomer for pre-70th week. The rapture may happen pre-70th week, or it may not.

I think Paul and John make it very clear it WILL BE pre-70th week.

 

[iamlamad]

We are not talking about pre-trib or post-trib. Get a video on the "anytime' rapture view.

The rapture is not said to be "on" the Day of Lord as the commentator is claiming. It is before the Day of the Lord "begins". The great tribulation is at the "beginning' of the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord, in its entirety is eternal.

I must disagree. The day of the Lord begins an instant after the rapture, and perhaps 10 days later the 7th seal begins the 70th week. The days of GT will not begin until after chapter 11 brings the 7th trumpet which marks the midpoint of the week. Therefore it will already be 3 1/2 years into the Day of the Lord.

 

[iamlamad]

Because we don't know what day on a timeline when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to be God triggering "that day". We don't know how far before "that day" the rapture takes place. But most of all, Jesus said "anytime".



10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

Not just "sleep", but also "wake".

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Doug, I don't think you are following the scriptures here. "That day" begins right where John tells us it begins, at the 6th seal. According to Isa 2 and the great earthquake, and according to Joel 2 and the signs in the sun and moon, that IS the start of the Day. And John agrees with Paul who puts the start of the DAY at the sudden destruction that comes with the dead in Christ rising.

Therefore all the 7 trumpet judgments are very much a part of the DAY.

The man of sin will enter the temple and declare he is God, at the exact midpoint of the week. That event is what divides the week into halves. In Revelation that comes at the 7th trumpet.

Therefore, "anytime" must be qualified to be anytime before the start of the Day of the Lord and start of the 70th week.

 

[BABerean2]

The rapture may happen pre-70th week, or it may not.

Since the angel Gabriel did not mention a "gap" of almost 2,000 years, in the 70 weeks, and the fact that the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century.

Therefore, the gathering of the Church will definitely be after the 70th week of Daniel.

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

 

[Douggg]

"That day" begins right where John tells us it begins, at the 6th seal

The wrath of the Lamb for the persecution and murder done by the wicked during the great tribulation.

Has Satan been pouring out his wrath on the inhabiters of the earth up until the sixth seal ?

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Do you not believe the rapture makes it possible to escape the time, times, and half time wrath?

 

[Douggg]

Since the angel Gabriel did not mention a "gap" of almost 2,000 years, in the 70 weeks, and the fact that the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews, based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the 70th week of Daniel occurred during the first century.

Therefore, the gathering of the Church will definitely be after the 70th week of Daniel.

Daniel Chapter 9: Dr. Kelly Varner

.

The rapture is not in Daniel 9. The 70 weeks are determined on Israel, Daniel's people, and Jerusalem.

 

[Douggg]

Therefore all the 7 trumpet judgments are very much a part of the DAY.

The trumpets are part of the Day. The millennium messianic age is part of the Day. Eternity is part of the Day.

It is the beginning of the Day of Lord, what triggers it - that the rapture must take place before.

The condition right before it begins is when the Jews and the world will be saying peace and safety. No-one on earth is going to be saying peace and safety when the judgements are taking place.

 

[Douggg]

I must disagree. The day of the Lord begins an instant after the rapture, and perhaps 10 days later the 7th seal begins the 70th week. The days of GT will not begin until after chapter 11 brings the 7th trumpet which marks the midpoint of the week. Therefore it will already be 3 1/2 years into the Day of the Lord.

What are you basing your view that the rapture triggers the Day of the Lord ?

What does Jesus say triggers the great tribulation? For them in Judea to flee to the mountains? Are they going to hear a 7th trumpet sound?

 

[Douggg]

I think Paul and John make it very clear it WILL BE pre-70th week.

What Paul makes it very clear is that people will be saying peace and safety - when they are caught off guard and the Day of the Lord begins like a thief in the night.

The 70th week begins for a different reason. It begins because the Jews will have embraced the little horn as their messiah, and he is anointed the King of Israel (illegitimate) coming in his own name - and he confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years as Moses required of all future leaders of Israel in Deuteronomy 31:9-11.

Which is why the Jews and the world will be saying peace and safety - they will be believing that they have entered the messianic age.

 

[Douggg]

I think Paul is telling us that His coming will be the trigger for the Dead in Christ to rise, then those alive and in Christ caught up, signaling the end of the church age, and the Day coming instantly after.

What Paul says must take place before the Day of the Lord begins is...

1. the great falling away
2. the person going into the temple, sitting, claiming to be God.

The second thing is an specific act - not something taking place over a period of the time. That act is what triggers the Day of the Lord. And the act will be totally unexpected, and unprepared for. Because the person doing it will be thought by the Jews and the world to be the messiah at the time.

 

[seventysevens]

Does a gun go off and then the trigger is pulled?

not if there are no bullets

 

[DaDad]

I am thinking that the 70 weeks of Daniel were not fulfilled with Jesus' ministry. This is the text:
Daniel 9: 24-27 - Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

...

Newton said:

We avoid also the doing violence to the language of Daniel, by taking the seven weeks and sixty two weeks for one number. Had that been Daniel’s meaning, he would have said sixty and nine weeks, and not seven weeks and sixty two weeks, a way of numbering used by no nation.​

Furthermore Walvoord cited Montgomery:

“... Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”
John Wolvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217​

And the Angel DEMANDS an end-time (i.e., approximate to 1948) interpretation:

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.” ...
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are shut up and sealed until the time of the end. ​

But why should Scripture and History discount such a wonderful commentator LIE?

With Best Regards,
DaDad