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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
2Thessalonians2:7 explained
- Thread starter Douggg
- Start date
And yet I am not saying that there will not be a resurrection at the Last Trump. I believe just like you that there will be a post trib rapture. I just see much more in the scriptures that point to two harvests. Why does Jesus give a perfect description of when he is coming and then tell us......in an hour that you think not, the son of man is coming.
No, but he does go right into this verse.
Matt 24
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
Which led me to this verse.
Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.
What that says to me is.......God saw the fathers of Israel as the first fruits of the first harvest.....as the fig tree has two harvests. The first crop is the breba crop and the second harvest is the main harvest. Since they followed after another god, they were no longer the first harvest of the fig tree.
Song of Solomon 2
8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.
9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.
10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.
11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;
12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;
13 The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.
Here we see someone standing behind a wall showing himself through the lattice. In other words, not every eye will see this coming......rapture. The command is given to rise when the flowers appear on the earth, the time of the singing birds is come. This points to a late spring, early summer harvest.....at the time of Pentecost. Again....showing himself through the lattice....not every eye will see this coming.
Is it a secret rapture?......what is heard is the land?.......THE VOICE OF THE TURTLE. That sounds pretty secret to me as I think the voice of the turtle is pretty quiet.
I see the things you say......and agree with them. I just see more things that need answered. For example both Pentecost and the Feast of Trumpets are harvest feasts. That tells me to look for two harvests. Jesus was the first fruits. The first fruits according to God.....guarantees a harvest. The 144000 are the first fruits. That tells me that there will be a harvest of Israel.
We also both agree that there is a post trib rapture. I just see more.......
Luke 17
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
Why does Jesus say that they will desire to see ONE of the days of the son of man.
WHY does Jesus say, learn the parable of the fig tree......it will be like the days of Noah(Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood) It will be like the days of Lot (destruction comes the very day Lot leaves Sodom) Jesus will be revealed in that day and every eye shall see him.
The fact that you see the parallels and order of Revelation says a lot. It does make it hard to talk about Revelation with anyone as our timelines are so different than theirs. If you can understand the order of Revelation.....which few see, you should be able to see two harvests........IF YOU SEEK.
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Gladly! Matthew 24:31 Is all who are resurrected to Christ spiritually through the gospel. Like Romans 6:4-6 and Ephesians 2:1-6 describe effectively
No. That's your thinking. Matthew 24 is answering the question of the temple being destroyed. As I told you before, the "cosmic events" of Matthew 24:29 are not literal or there would be no earth and no you and I because earth would not be. As I stated before this is prophetic apocalyptic language. It's all through the OT prophets. Matthew 25 is describing things after the destruction of the temple and the dispersing of the Jews until Jesus comes to judge the world in righteousness.
Let's see about that. Have you ever read Leviticus 26:14-46? That's what's happening in Revelation as you have 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 vials of Christ judgements occurring culminating in the destruction of temple.
No. It's instruction to them (the Thessalonian saints), it's an example to us about how we should behave as Christians in the world's evils after them.
You're entitled to believe that, just as I'm entitled to believe it was Nero. Meantime could you produce anyone that persecuted the church on the level Nero did?
You think you did...so that's ok with me. Time will really tell.
You're dreaming right there. Have you ever read Isaiah 13:17? It happened! The Medes took over as world power from Babylon. There's no doubting that, it's historical fact! Read please:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Medo-Persian-empire.html
No. Once again when you don't compare scripture with scripture we can all fall into error. The name of the Babylon of Revelation 17 is "mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots"...so if she's a mystery, one has to figure it out. At Revelation 17:7, the angel tells John how to identify mystery Babylon. Who do you think that is?
Just as it is not a problem to read scripture and understand what it truly is. You don't do that though.
My mistake and my apology for reading that wrong.
Actually I'm not. I stand on the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the cornerstone. We're all going to be wrong about the end somewhere. Time is going to tell!
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Well stick with *your calling*...but until you show me Paul quoting Daniel anywhere, it's exactly what you call it...*your calling*.
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Riberra
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If you are part of the 144,000 sealed of the twelve tribes of Israel Revelation 7 you will be under God's protection and go to Heaven at some point during the Tribulation. Revelation 14...Those that will not be part of the 144,000 sealed of God (Revelation 14:4 will have to go through the Tribulation to be refined /like gold need to be refined and purified with fire.
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i hope to be worthy to escape when the Church is raptured .....pre trib.....as I am a Gentile and not part if the 12 tribes.
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Sounds great until you read that they were redeemed from the earth.....raptured.
Rev 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
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No, the wild branches....Gentiles.....are grafted into the olive tree. And the natural branches .....12 tribes.......will again be grafted into the olive tree.........Just not at the some time.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
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Riberra
Well-Known Member
Why are you trying to separate the Church from Israel ?....Israel of the promise is the Church unto which the Gentiles believers are grafted.All will be united unto Jesus at the same time...which is sometime after Jesus Coming in Glory ...the fulness of the Gentile will be come in.(completed)
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