2Thessalonians2:7 explained

[Douggg]

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


One of the last things Jesus said to the disciples....

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Nothing happens unless the Lord Jesus Christ allows it to happen, as all power has been given to him in heaven and in earth. The He who now letteth is the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is he who lets the man of sin be revealed.....

But not until he - the body of Christ - is taken out of the way, which is "the what" in verse 6.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

 

[keras]

Why don't you use a modern translation? The KJV requires re-interpretation at best and re-translation in verses like 2 Thess.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 You know too, about the restraining power which ensures that he [plainly referring the Anti-Christ] will be revealed only at his appointed time. For already the secret forces of wickedness are at work, secret only for the present until the restraining hand [the Hand of God] is removed from the scene. REB.

But not until he - the body of Christ - is taken out of the way, which is "the what" in verse 6.

Another desperate attempt to find a rapture to heaven, anywhere, anyhow. And another abject fail.

 

[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[vinsight4u]

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[Douggg]

Why don't you use a modern translation? The KJV requires re-interpretation at best and re-translation in verses like 2 Thess.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 You know too, about the restraining power which ensures that he [plainly referring the Anti-Christ] will be revealed only at his appointed time. For already the secret forces of wickedness are at work, secret only for the present until the restraining hand [the Hand of God] is removed from the scene. REB.

Another desperate attempt to find a rapture to heaven, anywhere, anyhow. And another abject fail.

Because the REB is a thought for thought bible, not a word for word translation.

"The general translation method of the Revised English Bible is that of dynamic equivalence (thought for thought)."

 

[keras]

Because the REB is a thought for thought bible, not a word for word translation.
"The general translation method of the Revised English Bible is that of dynamic equivalence (thought for thought)."

Word for word translation is a very poor way to gain proper understanding of another language. Especially Hebrew!

Your attachment of great significance to single words, words that do not even appear in other Bibles, is wrong and leads to confusion. We must understand the whole message in our own mindset.

 

[Douggg]

Word for word translation is a very poor way to gain proper understanding of another language. Especially Hebrew!

Your attachment of great significance to single words, words that do not even appear in other Bibles, is wrong and leads to confusion. We must understand the whole message in our own mindset.

In a thought for thought bible, someone else's opinion has been built into what you are reading. In the REB's case, I think it also haso built into it that God is both feminine and masculine

 

[Postvieww]

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.


One of the last things Jesus said to the disciples....

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Nothing happens unless the Lord Jesus Christ allows it to happen, as all power has been given to him in heaven and in earth. The He who now letteth is the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is he who lets the man of sin be revealed.....

But not until he - the body of Christ - is taken out of the way, which is "the what" in verse 6.

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

This is basically the same argument as the Holy Spirit being the one taken out of the way. If all power is given to Jesus and I believe it is, who is it that takes Him out of the way?


Daniel 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:


6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.


“certain man” one of God’s angels.


Daniel 10:12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.


13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.


“prince of the kingdom of Persia” a fallen angel

“Michael “ another of God’s angels sent to help the first one.


Daniel 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.


21 But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.


Very similar wording to 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7.


Angels can and do restrain fallen angels and even satan himself.


Revelation 9:14-15 fallen angels were loosed by God’s angels.


Revelation 13:7 Who released the beast to make war with the saints? This passage doesn’t say specifically but it would be reasonable based on other passages to say it most likely was one of God’s angels.


Revelation 20:1-3 An angel of God will bind satan for a thousand years and since the angel bound him , it would be reasonable to say the angel of God will loose him after the thousand years.


It makes far more sense based on the clear wording of scripture to say that Michael or one of God’s angels is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians. There is real scriptural evidence angels can, have in the past , and will in the future do this kind of work for God. What is the scriptural evidence the restrainer is the church, the Holy Spirit or Christ Himself? I see none.

Dougg said:
Nothing happens unless the Lord Jesus Christ allows it to happen, as all power has been given to him in heaven and in earth. The He who now letteth is the Lord Jesus Christ. And it is he who lets the man of sin be revealed.....

I agree with your first sentence above, but The Father and Jesus use angels to carry out tasks throughout scripture.

 

[keras]

In a thought for thought bible, someone else's opinion has been built into what you are reading. In the REB's case, I think it also haso built into it that God is both feminine and masculine

Your opinions above are both wrong.
Strict adherence to the KJV leads to foolish errors, as you show in the OP.
I showed the true meaning of 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 in #2, truths confirmed by other translations as well.

 

[Riberra]

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Douggg, the mystery of iniquity** was already at work 2,000 years ago and continue to this day ...the whole thing will culminate one day in due time decided by God -only he who now letteth (allow)the mystery of iniquity to be already at work, will let the man of sin to be revealed in his appointed time - /for a time, and times, and half a time

Ephesians 6:12
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”

** the mystery of iniquity
Ezekiel 28:14-15
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.>(Lucifer)

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, the mystery of iniquity** was already at work 2,000 years ago and continue to this day ...the whole thing will culminate one day in due time decided by God -only he who now letteth (allow)the mystery of iniquity to be already at work, will let the man of sin to be revealed in his appointed time - /for a time, and times, and half a time

I agree that mystery of iniquity was at work back in Paul's day.

When you say God is the once making the decision, it is more precisely the Lord Jesus Christ, as all power is given unto him
in heaven and in the earth.

We are said to be the body of Christ here on earth. When the believers depart, the Holy Spirit will still be here to draw men to Jesus and salvation.

 

[Douggg]

This is basically the same argument as the Holy Spirit being the one taken out of the way. If all power is given to Jesus and I believe it is, who is it that takes Him out of the way?

Not exactly the same argument. The Holy Spirit will remain present on the earth, as the Holy Spirit is the One who draws men to Jesus and salvation. So the Holy Spirit is not taken out of the way.

Jesus Himself is not here on earth, but in Heaven on His Throne. And is all powerful, that he doesn't need to be taken of the way, anyway. But we as the body of Christ are in the line of fire for the bad things to take place during the Day of the Lord, when the man of sin is revealed. So when he is to be taken out of the way, it is talking about Jesus's body here on earth, which corporately speaking is the church.

This is my favorite verse in all of the bible. It makes me so happy.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 

[Salem]

While agreeing the church is to be taken out of the way and is a hindrance to evil, to some degree (less and less as we speak, even marginalized), only the power of God can hold back cosmic evil, the Holy Spirit the power of God. Also, it seems the bride of Christ would be she in nature, and the scripture is only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. It would seem the choice of a he with that sort of power would be only one choice, He. Revelation 6:1, no matter what anybody thinks of 2 Thessalonians 2:7, states only the Lord Jesus can open the seals that begin the apocalypse, nothing happening until God ordains it's time. But the harmonious conclusion is that He restrains and He to clear the path for antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. As to the Holy Spirit being entirely taken out of the world, this wouldn't be the case and still have salvation available, though don't see where anything is a matter of all or none in this scripture, why it is not that God takes away only His restraint on that evil, as stated.

 

[Douggg]

While agreeing the church is to be taken out of the way and is a hindrance to evil, to some degree (less and less as we speak, even marginalized), only the power of God can hold back cosmic evil, the Holy Spirit the power of God. Also, it seems the bride of Christ would be she in nature, and the scripture is only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. It would seem the choice of a he with that sort of power would be only one choice, He. Revelation 6:1, no matter what anybody thinks of 2 Thessalonians 2:7, states only the Lord Jesus can open the seals that begin the apocalypse, nothing happening until God ordains it's time. But the harmonious conclusion is that He restrains and He to clear the path for antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. As to the Holy Spirit being entirely taken out of the world, this wouldn't be the case and still have salvation available, though don't see where anything is a matter of all or none in this scripture, why it is not that God takes away only His restraint on that evil, as stated.

he, who now letteth - Jesus - who is given all power in heaven and in the earth to let things happen
he, who will let - Jesus - who will allow the man of sin to be revealed
he, to be taken out of the way - (Jesus) his body here on earth the church

What doesn't fit the "he" for all three requirements:
God the Father
The Holy Spirit
Michael, the angel
The church

 

[Riberra]

I agree that mystery of iniquity was at work back in Paul's day.

When you say God is the once making the decision, it is more precisely the Lord Jesus Christ, as all power is given unto him
in heaven and in the earth.

We are said to be the body of Christ here on earth. When the believers depart, the Holy Spirit will still be here to draw men to Jesus and salvation.

I think that you misinterpret the symbolic representation of the body of Christ on Earth which are the believers in Jesus Christ.
-Jesus' resurrected (BODY) ascended to Heaven 2,000 years ago ,the Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus to take the relay until Jesus's return on the Earth (The Parousia/Second Coming)
-The Church ie the Christians symbolically representing the body of Christ on Earth /will have to go through the Great Tribulation when the evil forces will be unleashed on the Earth without restriction Revelation 12 Revelation 13..."and power was given unto him during 42 months to make war with the saints and to overcome them "

Unless you believe that the Saints are not Christians ...

 

[Douggg]

I think that you misinterpret the symbolic representation of the body of Christ on Earth which are the believers in Jesus Christ.
-Jesus' resurrected (BODY) ascended to Heaven 2,000 years ago ,the Holy Spirit was sent by Jesus to take the relay until Jesus's return on the Earth (The Parousia/Second Coming)
-The Church ie the Christians symbolically representing the body of Christ on Earth /will have to go through the Great Tribulation when the evil forces will be unleashed on the Earth without restriction Revelation 12 Revelation 13..."and power was given unto him during 42 months to make war with the saints and to overcome them "

Unless you believe that the Saints are not Christians ...

The ones in Revelation 13 are Christians agreed. But they will have become Christians after the rapture has taken place.

The ones in Revelation 12 are Christians as well, but specificially the Jews who will receive Christ after the man of sin betrays them, after they will have embraced him as their messiah for approximately 3 1/2 years thinking peace and safety, thinking they have entered the messianic age.

I don't disagree that Jesus Himself has ascended to heaven and sits on His Throne there now. The verse has to be looked at in the context of what the church has been taught about it being the body of Christ here on earth in his physical absence. There is no way that any other interpretation fits all three conditions for the "he", except that it be Jesus... and the he taken out of the way is the body of Christ, the church, here on earth.

 

[Riberra]

The ones in Revelation 13 are Christians agreed. But they will have become Christians after the rapture has taken place.

It is very doubtful that the Great Tribulation which will be the worst period of time on the Earth will gather new people to Jesus Christ...Quite the contrary that will be the exact opposite ,that will be the beginning of the great falling away from the faith of the actual believers whose only faith and hope was in the belief in the hypothetical rapture out of the Earth to avoid the GT.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The ones in Revelation 12 are Christians as well, but specificially the Jews who will receive Christ after the man of sin betrays them, after they will have embraced him as their messiah for approximately 3 1/2 years thinking peace and safety, thinking they have entered the messianic age.

The ones in Revelation 12 are the few Christians Jews living in Israel who will flee in the wilderness to be under God's protection as soon as the man of sin will enter the temple and declare that he is God.

I don't disagree that Jesus Himself has ascended to heaven and sits on His Throne there now. The verse has to be looked at in the context of what the church has been taught about it being the body of Christ here on earth in his physical absence. There is no way that any other interpretation fits all three conditions for the "he", except that it be Jesus... and the he taken out of the way is the body of Christ, the church, here on earth.

The only thing which fit the condition about -WHAT WHITHOLDETH that he might be revealed in his time.-
Is that the time is not come yet.... When the time will be come /he/ who restrain the man of sin to be revealed in his time will let him go.... -The /he/ will not be on the way restraining anymore-

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7

6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

 

[Postvieww]

Not exactly the same argument. The Holy Spirit will remain present on the earth, as the Holy Spirit is the One who draws men to Jesus and salvation. So the Holy Spirit is not taken out of the way.

Jesus Himself is not here on earth, but in Heaven on His Throne. And is all powerful, that he doesn't need to be taken of the way, anyway. But we as the body of Christ are in the line of fire for the bad things to take place during the Day of the Lord, when the man of sin is revealed. So when he is to be taken out of the way, it is talking about Jesus's body here on earth, which corporately speaking is the church.

This is my favorite verse in all of the bible. It makes me so happy.

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

I total agree with you and the scripture that all power is given unto Him, but I see not one shred of scriptural support for your theory. Just stating it is so does make it so. I admit what I presented was a theory but it did have some basis in scripture. As of yet no one I have read has offered a better one with something to back it up. We can just agree to disagree again.

 

[Douggg]

I total agree with you and the scripture that all power is given unto Him, but I see not one shred of scriptural support for your theory. Just stating it is so does make it so. I admit what I presented was a theory but it did have some basis in scripture. As of yet no one I have read has offered a better one with something to back it up. We can just agree to disagree again.

The explanation I presented does have scriptural support which I gave, Matthew 28:18 and Revelation 1:8. The litmus text for your theory is to substitute your explanation of who the "he" is in verse 7, as I have done below.

7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (the Lord Jesus Christ) who now letteth will let, until he
(the Lord Jesus Christ, his body here on earth, the church) be taken out of the way.

The three requirements for the "he" in that verse:
1. he, who now letteth - Jesus - who is given all power in heaven and in the earth to let things happen
2. he, who will let - Jesus - who will allow the man of sin to be revealed
3. he, to be taken out of the way - (Jesus) his body here on earth the church

What doesn't fit the "he" for all three requirements for the "he":
God the Father
The Holy Spirit
Michael, the angel
The church