2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[LightLoveHope]

OK, nowgo back to 1 Cor 13:4-13 and point out any emotions listed under 'love'.

I am sorry. The Lord asks us to speak from our hearts. We need to have open hearts, to have love flowing through us. It seems you do not like this. As I have said love is the core of who God is. Somehow you have an image about how I am using the word.
Can I repeat, I am talking about love as expressed by Jesus, through His life and the cross.

You appear to be saying being upset, and hurt is not a problem in life, knowing you have purpose and a future, to know you are safe and secure in Christ.
The fruit of the Spirit are

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

These states are achieved by having healing, forgiveness, repentance in our lives and our emotions being resolved and at peace. It strikes me this reality is unachievable for yourself, because just touching on the subject is like a lightening rod.

You talk about grieving the Spirit, which is causing hurt and upset to the Spirit, which is an emotional response. Anger is something we all experience and God himself expresses. I get the impression to agree at a simple level is impossible for you. Why is that?

 

[LightLoveHope]

Hogwash. To be filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit is love. His love. To love the Lord Jesus Christ is to follow His plan, not my own.

Praise the Lord that His love and grace flows through His people.
I hope you have a good day and have the Lords peace working through you.

I do not know what your subtle distinctions actually mean, other than a whole new theological view with its own rules and definitions.

It is too easy to miss any meaning by trying too hard. The thief on the cross showed His faith and love of Jesus, and this is what we all need to do, and just apply this love into our hearts and lives.

Is sounds like this simplicity has been made complicated. But as I would show my love of Christ by worshipping and humbling myself before Him as a transformed sinner, always in debt to His work in my life. I show my love by this, so simple and easy, when your heart is open and purified, Halleluyah.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said this:
""Having looked over all the following Scriptures, it is clear that there is NO CLEAR STATEMENT about salvation being lost. None.

Could you point out why those were not clear.

By unclear, there is no plain language about losing salvation. One has to assume that. Could you refer to the specific post # that the list was given?

For instance what do you find unclear in the following scripture?

[Hb6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, andthe powers of the world to come, 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.]

Sure. First, we have to ask, "it's impossible for WHAT?" The answer is "to renew them again unto repentance".

Nothing about salvation here. So one has to assume that's what's being meant.

However, the Greek word for 'repent' means "change of mind". So the passage is about those saved Jews who had or were going to return to the Law and its sacrifices. It is impossible for them to change their mind about their view of the levitical sacrificial system. That's all. Again, salvation isn't even mentioned. Must less losing anything.

[JL: Jn10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.]

Again, in v.28, the first phrase, "I give them eternal life" is a clear and direct statement by Jesus that speaks to the CAUSE of having eternal life, which is Himself.
iow, since He gives eternal life, He is the CAUSE of those who have it.

The second phrase, "and they shall never perish" is the EFFECT of having eternal life.

Couldn't be any more clear or direct. By simply being given eternal life, Jesus is saying that the recipient shall never perish.

Is there any condition or conditions listed after the first phrase or CAUSE before the EFFECT phrase? No.

Therefore, v.28 is a clear statement about eternal security, which applies the MOMENT one believes. How do I know this?

Jesus said in John 5:24 and 6:47 that whoever believes HAS (present possession) eternal life.

So, from the MOMENT one is given eternal life, which is WHEN one believes, they shall never perish. No strings attached.

[Rms8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.]

Review v.38. It says "neither the present, nor the future". What does that mean? It means that nothing that occurs will separate the believer from the love of Christ.

Another verse on eternal security.

No other thing or creature except the very creature that chooses, of his own free will, to commit a sin which brings forth death.

Except, of course, that there is no "exception" anywhere in Rom 8. Or anywhere else in the Bible.

Jms1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.]

Do you think this verse rerfers to spiritual death? Why would you? Human beings are BORN spiritually DEAD and in need of being born again.

And once given the gift of eternal life, how can that person die spiritually, when they are said to be spiritually alive? Eph 2

In order for sin to bring forth death the one who sins must first have eternal life to die spiritually.

The flaw here is to think that one who HAS eternal life can die spiritually. There is no evidence for that in the Bible.

In fact, Heb 9:27 says "it is appointed to man to die ONCE, and then to face judgment. That refers to physical death. The "second death" is the final residence of unbelievers. Everyone is born spiritually dead, and unbelievers stay in that state throughout eternity.

Those who believe are born again, or made spiritually alive, and cannot EVER die spiritually again.

Those who do not have eternal life are already spiritually dead.

Everyone is born that way.

So your view is that eternal life can die. Ludicrous.

[Gal6:7 be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.] [/QUOT]
Where is salvation mentioned here, or loss of anything. It's referring to accountability before God. 2 Cor 5:10 is instructive for believers: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

2 John 8 - Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully.

The many warning passages that speak of loss are referring to loss of reward.

For unbelievers, they also are accountable to God for their actions: Jesus noted a comparison between the residents of Sodom and Gomorrah and contemporary cities of His day and He said it will be more bearable for the residents of S & G than the contemporary cities. And Rev 20:11-15 is clear about unbelievers being judged for their deeds, not sins. If they were being judged for their sins, the verse would have said so.

[Gal5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.]

There are 3 parallel passages about inheritance and the kingdom. The other 2 are found in 1 Cor 6 and Eph 5.

In Gal 5 and 1 Cor 6, the same phrase is used: "shall not inherit the kingdom". But in Eph 5:5, the phrase is slightly different: "shall have no inheritance IN the kingdom".

I capitalized the word "in" for emphasis. iow, it is NOT saying that such lifestyles will result in NOT ENTERING the kingdom, but rather that there will be NO inheritance IN the kingdom.

iow, it's quite possible to be IN the kingdom, but have NO inheritance IN the kingdom.

So these 3 verses are warnings to rebellious saved people that they will forfeit all possible reward in heaven.

If one can’t lose salvation what would be the point of Paul warning OSAS people about the works of the flesh, which excludes one from inheriting the kingdom of God?

Just explained it. I'm open for questions.

 

[LightLoveHope]

The only "alien" thing in our discussions is your obvious disdain of the truth of the word of God. All you've got are your unstable emotions.

I can feel the emotion in this comment. I could even heat them with the energy expressed. The great thing about the Lord, is I know His heart and His response.
In your theology, how do unbelieving sinners get into heaven?
If no unbeliever is acceptable, then belief that is lost is not acceptable either.
It appears this step for you is impossible.

And it is this that creates all this antagonism. I hope you can feel this is only from
you, I just wonder how you need so badly to believe Christ is like this, because to
see He can reject sinners who rebel is just too much. Are you really this fragile in
your faith and security in Christ?

If I remember right, I have been accused of condemning brothers to hell.
Sounds very heavy stuff, except we are talking God judging rebellion and sin.
And on this issue we should be in agreement as we both love Jesus and desire to be
like Him. But why the strong emotions? Why the condemnation?
Are you not going to perish, so why are you concerned about people being lost, because they never can be? But maybe its because you believe the fragile sinners may never hear about Christs love, only the burden of being righteous, and never go to Him because He is too strict and judgemental. But it strikes me this is just the excuse to excuse continual sin in ones own life, and appease a guilty conscience.

I do not want to accuse others of such a thing, but this is exactly what I have discovered with people who took the position I was wrong and listening to the enemy.
Ironic that, walk with Jesus and see the missiles flying, but then what else can one do to try and stop the work of God.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"OK, nowgo back to 1 Cor 13:4-13 and point out any emotions listed under 'love'."

I am sorry. The Lord asks us to speak from our hearts.

Where does He say this? Please cite verses when making your claims.

We need to have open hearts, to have love flowing through us.

OK, so please quote or at least cite any verse that you think claims this.

It seems you do not like this.

I'll tell you exactly what I don't like. People making claims and without any verses that say what they claim. As you do.

As I have said love is the core of who God is.

The Bible says that God is light.

Somehow you have an image about how I am using the word.

Uh, no. I have pointed out how you abuse God's word.

You appear to be saying being upset, and hurt is not a problem in life, knowing you have purpose and a future, to know you are safe and secure in Christ.

I really have no idea how anyone can come to the strange conclusions that you keep coming to, from what I pot. Why are you being upset, or feeling hurt? Have you no strength? Have you no endurance? Of course they are problems in life, but we don't have to let them define us, or destroy us. It seems from your posts that you are quite easily upset and hurt, by a host of things.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Galatians 5:22-23

These states are achieved by having healing, forgiveness, repentance in our lives and our emotions being resolved and at peace.

Because I'm as familiar with the Bible as I am, I AM at peace and have no emotions that need to be resolved.

It strikes me this reality is unachievable for yourself, because just touching on the subject is like a lightening rod.

You have a wild imagination, that's for sure. Biblical knowledge is my strength and stability.

You talk about grieving the Spirit, which is causing hurt and upset to the Spirit, which is an emotional response.

Are you kidding? Please don't drag the Spirit into your mire. God does NOT emote like yourself.

Anger is something we all experience and God himself expresses. I get the impression to agree at a simple level is impossible for you. Why is that?

The problem is that your "impressions" and conclusions are simply very faulty.

You are unable to see straight and that is due to your emotions, that are unstable.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"The only "alien" thing in our discussions is your obvious disdain of the truth of the word of God. All you've got are your unstable emotions."

I can feel the emotion in this comment.

And, again, that is the problem with your view. You see everything through emotions, when there are no emotions in my posts. Just facts and stability from God's word. But yes, you can "feel the emotion" because that's all you have.

I could even heat them with the energy expressed.

No, again, your emotions cannot be trusted.

The great thing about the Lord, is I know His heart and His response.

Really? If that were actually true, you would believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing. But you don't believe that.

So your claim here is false.

In your theology, how do unbelieving sinners get into heaven?

They don't. Ever. Your question reveals just how little you seem to be able to grasp and follow this discussion.

If no unbeliever is acceptable, then belief that is lost is not acceptable either.

And what verse says that? Once again, you're speaking from your emotions, rather than facts. Scripture states facts. So, what's the verse that says what you claim?

And it is this that creates all this antagonism. I hope you can feel this is only from you, I just wonder how you need so badly to believe Christ is like this, because to see He can reject sinners who rebel is just too much.

All you're doing here is revealing that you do NOT BELIEVE what Jesus said in John 10:28. Recipients of eternal life shall never perish. That is a FACT, and one that you do NOT believe.

Are you really this fragile in your faith and security in Christ?

FACT: you are the fragile one, locked in your fragile emotions.

If I remember right, I have been accused of condemning brothers to hell.

Shame on you. You have no right or authority for that. And Jesus says those He gives eternal life shall never perish. FACT.

Sounds very heavy stuff, except we are talking God judging rebellion and sin. And on this issue we should be in agreement as we both love Jesus and desire to be like Him. But why the strong emotions? Why the condemnation?

You'll have to ask yourself.

Are you not going to perish, so why are you concerned about people being lost, because they never can be? But maybe its because you believe the fragile sinners may never hear about Christs love, only the burden of being righteous, and never go to Him because He is too strict and judgemental. But it strikes me this is just the excuse to excuse continual sin in ones own life, and appease a guilty conscience.

I have no idea what your point is here. The first sentence needs much work in order to be understandable.

Ironic that, walk with Jesus and see the missiles flying, but then what else can one do to try and stop the work of God.

Again, I see no point here. I DO walk with Jesus and have seen no missles flying. I have no idea what you are referring to.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Where does He say this? Please cite verses when making your claims.

Hi Free, Do you love God with all your heart?
Do you forgive from your heart?
Do you love from your heart?

You say you know the bible well, though you deny these are in scripture.
Then you cannot know scripture or the Lord.

"love him with all your heart" Mark 12:33
"forgive your brother from your heart" Matt 18:35
"love one another deeply, from the heart" 1 Peter 1:22

My experience of dealing with people so certain of their position that the answers will be ignored as if they do not exist, because to actually admit the reality, means they would have to change, which is where the door is closed. It is why to enter the Kingdom we have to become like a child and start to learn again, and let the truth in Christ minister to our hearts and bring life to our souls, Amen, Thank you Jesus for your truth and life through the Holy Spirit.

 

[LightLoveHope]

A liar will always say, prove you point to me, you have never done this, you are empty and full of nothing but rubbish.

This is done because the position they hold is stronger than the truth, and they will never consider either things maybe different. But this is how we grow.

I have seen propogandists work like this before. If they accepted the truth, they would stop holding their position. What stunned many in their world view is I needed to be a tin pot to believe the bible, and as I was not, and did not respond as they expected, I must be lying not their model and ideas are actually wrong. But this is how closed hearts work.

Praise God that we stand with Him in His grace and will be with Him when He returns to take His people home. Blessings to you, brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[ToBeLoved]

This is a lively thread.

 

[LightLoveHope]

The only "alien" thing in our discussions is your obvious disdain of the truth of the word of God. All you've got are your unstable emotions.

I would like to point out the futility of this point. Emotions in summary say, things are ok, or action is required. Fear is fight or flight response. They are like a gun, used in the wrong way do harm to the person holding them. Imagine an armory with loaded weapons, going off all the time. It would be best to close the door and stay away.
Thus speaks the logical rational person. It is all so unstable and unpredictable we just need to be saved from it.

Here is God, the Lord of all, come to man with healing, peace, joy, patience, kindness, self control. To believe He did not come to make safe the armory, to put in its right place the firing off of emotional desires and responses, is to miss His power and gospel. Is it easier to believe He can forgive our sins, raise the dead, provide us with eternal life and exclude Him from our hearts?

He is the healer and sets the prisoner free. His truth rules us within, and puts in its place all our feelings and responses, so the armory is an ordered controlled and appropriate place, with the Holy Spirit reigning from on High. This is the source of the streams of living water, eternal love that conquers all, the strength to conquer mountains and delve the deepest sea.

But we learn by application and obeying, not by just believing and hoping. In obedience we learn how our emotions respond, and then to apply Christs love and perspective so our emotions fall into line. Emotions are our servants not our master.
Jesus put it like this

Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.
John 14:27

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
gentleness and self-control Gal 5:22

From our hearts we learn through obedience and behaviour.

When you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matt 6:3

When you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Matt 6:6

Store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Matt 6:19-21

Our hearts are who we are. So desire good things, things of heaven, things that will last to eternity, and know this is the way of the Kingdom.

The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light.
Matt 6:22

Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Phil 4:8

 

[LightLoveHope]

A small observation.
Everything we write or put out, we are sensitive to the response, the acceptance of our words or the rejection of them. This is expressed by our emotions, either feeling hurt, or put down, or exalted and reinforced we got that right. If there is no response or nothing is triggered, we get bored or lose enthusiasm to continue.

We may think this is a rational exercise when actually it is 100% emotional.
And this is the dilemma. Emotions are part of everything we do and define where and who we are. How we react to others defines our friendships, our enemies, our teams, our encouragements and our successes.

One indicator of mental illness is total disproportionate emotional responses to situations where social interaction is difficult and dangerous. As a follower of Jesus, it is His appropriateness and peace He brings that speaks most to me. He transcends my confusion and often changing ambitions and direction, and gives foundation to all I do.

Anyone who is not in touch with their heart, is like a headless monster, being driven by anything that does not challenge their fundamental chaos, and live constantly in denial of the random emotional torments that rule their life. It is this that they fear, and try very hard to contain, and literally do not know what to do. In religious terms they regard their hearts as desperately wicked and the source of all evil.

Jesus never wants us to live like this or be ruled by our own unresolved issues and dilemmas. He wants to build us anew, with a new way, a different set of reactions and approaches, and a loving spirit. Amen.

The first step is to admit where you are and where you could be in Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I asked this:
"Where does He say this? Please cite verses when making your claims."

Hi Free, Do you love God with all your heart?
Do you forgive from your heart?
Do you love from your heart?

Where else would I?

You say you know the bible well, though you deny these are in scripture.

I didn't say that. I deny your view of what the Bible says.

Then you cannot know scripture or the Lord.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Yet you have the gall to disagree with the Lord Jesus.

Where's the love in THAT?

"love him with all your heart" Mark 12:33
"forgive your brother from your heart" Matt 18:35
"love one another deeply, from the heart" 1 Peter 1:22

Again, the Bible describes 'love' as an action, NOT an emotion, as you seem to believe.

But then, you don't believe what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life never perishing, so I shouldn't expect you to be inconsistent and believe that biblical love isn't an emotion.

My experience of dealing with people so certain of their position that the answers will be ignored as if they do not exist, because to actually admit the reality, means they would have to change, which is where the door is closed.

I'm certain of my position because it lines up with Scripture. Unlike your position.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"The only "alien" thing in our discussions is your obvious disdain of the truth of the word of God. All you've got are your unstable emotions."

I would like to point out the futility of this point.

I know it's futile to point your misunderstanding of your emotions and disdain for facts and truth. But that doesn't stop me from pointing that out.

Emotions in summary say, things are ok, or action is required.

Nope. Emotions only "feel". They don't "think". Ever. Ever seen a mob thinking rationally? Never. Doesn't happen.

But we learn by application and obeying, not by just believing and hoping.

In order to learn, we must FIRST understand and believe what God's word says. Which you haven't done yet. You seem to think your feelings are higher than the FACTS of Scripture.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I do not know what your subtle distinctions actually mean

It should be pretty clear by now. FreeGrace and I have shared the principles and mechanics of how to be filled with the Spirit many times.
Do not Grieve the Spirit. We need to know and understand how and when we do this.

Do not quench the Spirit. We need to know and understand how and when we do this.

Be filled with the Spirit. 1 John 1:9 if we have grieved or quenched the Spirit.

Walk in the Spirit. Do His will. It will grow as we learn,understand and apply His doctrines.Because we have to know His mind to do His will.

And a fact that is overlooked far to often......we had better be filled with the Spirit as we study His word. This is why we have believers falsely thinking and teaching that we may perish. And The Lord Jesus Christ was CLEAR that Christians will never,no not ever perish. Will not come into condemnation. HAVE passed from death to life. John 10:28,John 5:24.

And this is how you say we are filled with the Spirit:

How are we filled with the Spirit? By praising God, by abiding in His presence, making music in your heart.

Not a subtle difference. This sounds nice and peachy, but it isn't going to get you filled with the Spirit. In fact, it will get about as high as your ceiling.......Because your not filled with the Spirit.

, other than a whole new theological view with its own rules and definitions.

The principles and mechanics of fellowship and being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit come directly from scripture.

Sad that it seems 'new' to the majority of believers.

 

[LightLoveHope]

How can two people who live in different worlds communicate?
Only if they actually understand themselves and are predictable in their behaviour.

Much of my understanding in Jesus is through my heart, through the word and
through my communion with Him.

The Lord describes the problem with His people like this

Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are far from righteousness.
I am bringing my righteousness near, it is not far away; and my salvation will not be delayed. I will grant salvation to Zion, my splendor to Israel
Isaiah 46:12-13

The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.
Isaiah 29:13

You have planted them, and they have taken root; they grow and bear fruit. You are always on their lips but far from their hearts.
Jeremiah 12:2

Our hearts are Gods desire, and walking in His ways.

When people claim we walk by the Spirit, yet are evil doers, they are lying.
If these people claimed to know God they would love His people and minister love to them rather than condemnation and judgement. So likewise with myself, when I explain or want to talk about simple realities, I am wrong, and do not know the Word or God. It is strange that a people should be so hemmed in, and only one idea dominates above all, that they are Gods elect, rather than walking in His ways.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Gods elect or walking in His ways?

This appears to be the divide. Do not talk against Gods elect, because you are the enemy. If Gods elect sin, that is just their right, do not judge or condemn them.
All scripture is just to bring about recognition we need Christ to be our substitute, and looking at anything within us is just self justification and attempting to prove we are good to God.

Once you believe this you are justifying ones own rebellion and lostness.
I know society that follows this road, and it dies. It is the road to death and uncontrolled disfunctional behaviour.

We are called to be a righteous light to world, of life, of truth, of love, of care, of compassion, of hope, of rescue, of security and refuge.

But this is not the show to earn reward, this is because the Lord of all has saved and rescued us, and nothing in our lives matters other than serving Him and expressing the love He has planted in our hearts and flows through our lives.

Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him
John 7:38

Living water. An interesting picture. Does this living water flow from you? Abide in Jesus, listen to Him, humble yourself and repent and these words will be fulfilled in your life.

If you feel rejected by this picture, I ask why? Has it ever occurred to you that your heart does not want to give up evil deeds and repent and make your paths straight?
How many things do you covert, women you lust after, wealth you need, comfort you cannot do without, power and recognition that must be given and achieved?

So many things can make us prisoners. Bitterness over family, friends, situations gone wrong, spurned partners, children gone awry. These are tough issues, but they can become foundational to what we will do and where we will go. Say just a few words at the wrong moment, and the emotional electricity becomes very alive. These are things we need to bring before the Lord before they bring us to the seat of judgement.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I heard as story of a made up belief system

God wants us to only do what we should do in the "Spirit" and not the "flesh".
The "flesh" is evil and serves only self, the "Spirit" is good and of God.
Problem is only the individual can know which they are doing and why.
So a prison is created of guilt over doing things for ones own created framework or our perception of Gods created framework.

If you want to define a man made set of rules, subjective to the believer and not in scripture, here you are. But what other choice do these people have.
No law, no words of Jesus, Pauls emotional expressions of love, holiness, purity, walking close to God, which are all rejected as of the flesh and worldly.

And anything about oneself and listening to ones needs and those of others is all flesh and worldly. At some point when reality breaks in and simply the needs of ones life demand attention, it all falls apart. And the people are often in a worse state than before because they paid no attention to where and what they were doing.

God help anybody who leaves God for this mess.

 

[Gr8Grace]

How can two people who live in different worlds communicate?
Only if they actually understand themselves and are predictable in their behaviour.

Much of my understanding in Jesus is through my heart, through the word and
through my communion with Him.

The Lord describes the problem with His people like this

Listen to me, you stubborn-hearted, you who are far from righteousness.
I am bringing my righteousness near, it is not far away; and my salvation will not be delayed. I will grant salvation to Zion, my splendor to Israel
Isaiah 46:12-13

The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.
Isaiah 29:13

You have planted them, and they have taken root; they grow and bear fruit. You are always on their lips but far from their hearts.
Jeremiah 12:2

Our hearts are Gods desire, and walking in His ways.

When people claim we walk by the Spirit, yet are evil doers, they are lying.
If these people claimed to know God they would love His people and minister love to them rather than condemnation and judgement. So likewise with myself, when I explain or want to talk about simple realities, I am wrong, and do not know the Word or God. It is strange that a people should be so hemmed in, and only one idea dominates above all, that they are Gods elect, rather than walking in His ways.

What I find strange is the fact that this post has no relevance to those who are actively participating with you in this thread. Are you PM'ing with these 'ghost people' and responding to them in this open thread?

 

[BNR32FAN]

James didn’t write chapter 2 verses 14-26 because he thought everyone who believes will produces works. He wrote this as an example for those who do believe and still do not do good works. Just the same Jesus didn’t say to His faithful 11 apostles abide in me because He thought they could not turn away. That would’ve been a pointless message to tell someone who believes to abide if they had no choice but to abide.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I heard as story of a made up belief system

God wants us to only do what we should do in the "Spirit" and not the "flesh".

Gal 5:16~~New American Standard Bible
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.

The "flesh" is evil and serves only self, the "Spirit" is good and of God.
.

Rom 7:18~~New American Standard Bible
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

Gal 5:16~~New American Standard Bible
But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.