2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[LightLoveHope]

Do not grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

4.

But yeah, for those who think their walk gets them salvation......It will be tens of thousand of pages and all subjective, so we would have to add another infinite number of pages.

Just think, follow the 4 sentences above.......And EVERYTHING else falls into place. Don't follow His simple plan and it all becomes an endless quagmire.

So let's think. In this model a believer could do the most evil things, hate God, and in some way still be in the Spirit. You may as well suggest God lives with impurity and sin, when everything God declares is the opposite. Only that which is purified is allowed in the temple.

Let us suggest we are what we do, in thought word and deed. A good man is a man who does good things and an evil man does evil things.

Those who say they love God and yet are evil doers are liars. And no liar goes to heaven.
So you meet Jesus, repent, are healed and walk in love. Amen you know Christ.

It is this simple, the way to life.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"So, if all this is a reference to salvation, explain how Moses didn't enter the land because of unbelief, yet was with Jesus on the mount of transfiguration."

Here is a conflation of rebellion against God and a sin of frustration.

Once again we see your lack of understanding of the Bible.

So, let's examine what Scripture says about Moses. While he was frustrated, that's not how the Bible describes it. And Heb 3:19 applies directly to Moses.

Num 20:12 - But the LORD said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not trust in me enough to honor me as holy in the sight of the Israelites, you will not bring this community into the land I give them.”
Num 20:24 - “Aaron will be gathered to his people. He will not enter the land I give the Israelites, because both of you rebelled against my command at the waters of Meribah.
Deut 32:51 - This is because both of you broke faith with me in the presence of the Israelites at the waters of Meribah Kadesh in the Desert of Zin and because you did not uphold my holiness among the Israelites.

So, as can be seen so clearly, Moses wasn't barred from entering the promised land because he was frustrated.

It was because he "broke faith" with the Lord, He didn't "trust in the Lord enough", and he "rebelled against the Lord's command".

Moses was judged for His sin, and told he would not see coming into the promised land.
That is quite different from those judged as rebellious and killed like Korah, who went to judgement.

My point is that Heb 3:19 applies to Moses, just as much as to the rest of the first generation of the Exodus.

Heb 3:19 - So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

That's what kept Moses out of the promised land.

Somehow you have tamed God into a docile being, caught in His promises and unable to execute judgement because of a promise. I fear for your future, because God has no partiality, and judges sin for what it is.

This is just delusional. You just keep on misjudging me on all points.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Gr8Grace said: ↑
Do not grieve the Spirit.
Do not quench the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

So let's think. In this model a believer could do the most evil things, hate God, and in some way still be in the Spirit.

Wow, do you fail to understand this at all.

This is the heart of your problem. You have no idea what grieving or quenching the Spirit is or means. Or how they are the exact opposite of being filled with the Spirit and walking by the Spirit.

Do you understand anything about the word "fellowship"?

Can an abusive husband be in fellowship with his wife? That would be nuts.

 

[LightLoveHope]

It is sad to hear someone saying one abides in Jesus to maintain salvation.
This is like saying we eat just to stay alive, how dare you earn life, it is a gift, you should do nothing and let others feed you. You would be rejected and thrown out for such parasite behaviour for no gratitude for the very thing that keeps one alive.

We abide in Christ because we love Him, and do His will because it is good and it is life.

People who hate something call it a burden, and too difficult. Those who hate the light hate the source of the light and those who share it.

Of course those here are the most hardened and dull to love and its working, or else they would not argue against it so. Even supporting worship of Jesus is a problem to them. Alarm bells should ring in their heads, but hatred and seeing the enemy shouts louder. Their father drives them very hard, and as it slips away, they must renew and return to say the same phrases that are as empty as before.

I see more today in Jesus than ever before. He spoke of open hearts to those who become like children. But this is too meek for the super saints and their rebuking. So sad and so futile.

 

[LightLoveHope]

The problem is only His sheep listen.
When faith is just logic, a model that works, no wonder a mess is created.
I would have been part of this if I had not been weak and so fragile.

I needed Jesus, to not commit suicide, to cope alone, to see no answers and people blown apart by life unable to answer the simplest issues. I had reason to hope because in Jesus I saw life.

Life like a child playing in the rain, knowing they are safe yet being able to loose it all in a flash. When Jesus teaches you how to love, how to be hurt and forgive, how to weep and see the lost, then these are no longer words on a page, they are a strong tower in the heart.

So I wonder at who you think you know. Maybe safe middle class churches build safe insecure pride filled tin pot dictators who lecture and put others in their place. This only works on other tin pots. Hope you like clanging, it's all you got. God bless you, for as long as His grace stands.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Of course those here are the most hardened and dull to love and its working, or else they would not argue against it so.

I and the bible argue against YOUR love. Yours is an emotional, fleeting, depends on what is in it for you type of love.

Gods love, and our love through the filling of the Spirit is an impersonal unconditional love. That is why we can love and forgive our enemies no matter what/unconditionally.........your love requires something from your enemies and your friends.

 

[LightLoveHope]

I and the bible argue against YOUR love. Yours is an emotional, fleeting, depends on what is in it for you type of love.

This is an interesting statement.
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1:22
We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you.
We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. As a fair exchange--I speak as to my children--open wide your hearts also.
2 Cor 6:11-13
The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.
Acts 16:14
May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you.
1 Thess 3:12
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5
Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints
Phil 1:7
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind
Matt 22:37

We can only love like this with an open heart, cleansed and purified.
It is the gospel and its fruit. The fact my friend you see this as an opposition to your position shows your state.

I cannot see inside you, or measure the balances that rule your soul and spirit. I can only testify to what the Lord has done for me, and declare that He promises to do the same for all who come to Him. If you have ears to hear and your heart calls, humble yourself and seek Him and He will find you. Thank you Jesus for your great love and power that flows like streams of water from our hearts once you have cleansed and purified us through the cross and the Holy Spirit, by repentance and faith, with the blood and body given for our redemption and forgiveness of our sins.
In name of Jesus Christ, the Saviour of those who follow, Amen.

 

[FreeGrace2]

It is sad to hear someone saying one abides in Jesus to maintain salvation.

I agree, which is why I said it. Because your posts have actually SAID that. Over and over. Don't you remember what you post?

This is like saying we eat just to stay alive, how dare you earn life, it is a gift, you should do nothing and let others feed you.

No, it's not like that at all.

You would be rejected and thrown out for such parasite behaviour for no gratitude for the very thing that keeps one alive.

Your views are being thrown out for your claims that salvation is maintained by abiding in Christ.

We abide in Christ because we love Him, and do His will because it is good and it is life.

So you're now changing your claims, eh?

I see more today in Jesus than ever before.

If that were true, why do you persist in rejecting that once given the gift of eternal life, the recipient shall never perish? That's what Jesus said.

So don't try to pull the wool over my eyes. I know what you're doing.

He spoke of open hearts to those who become like children. But this is too meek for the super saints and their rebuking. So sad and so futile.

Rather than trying to change the subject by moralizing, please just answer my question above about why you reject what Jesus taught in John 10:28 while, out of the other side of your mouth, you claim to "see more today in Jesus than ever before".

 

[FreeGrace2]

The problem is only His sheep listen.

How is that a "problem" Of course only His sheep will listen to Him. However, the Bible is clear that ONCE GIVEN the gift of eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. Which you've made clear you don't believe.

I needed Jesus, to not commit suicide, to cope alone, to see no answers and people blown apart by life unable to answer the simplest issues. I had reason to hope because in Jesus I saw life.

Actually, you need Jesus to keep your butt out of hell. Yes, He does a whole lot more than that. But there is nothing in life that outweighs missing out on the lake of fire.

So I wonder at who you think you know.

And what business is it of yours to know who I know? Or even think I know.

God bless you, for as long as His grace stands.

Oh, I see. God's grace fails at some point. Well, that's surely the apparent view of everyone who thinks that salvation can be lost.

But I know better. God's grace is greater than all our sins. Whether you or anyone else believes that or not.

 

[FreeGrace2]

This is an interesting statement.
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1:22
We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you.
We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. As a fair exchange--I speak as to my children--open wide your hearts also.
2 Cor 6:11-13
The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.
Acts 16:14
May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you.
1 Thess 3:12
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5
Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints
Phil 1:7
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind
Matt 22:37

We can only love like this with an open heart, cleansed and purified.

What is interesting is how much you talk about "love" yet have dodged my request that you define what that word means and what it looks like.

So that's the problem. You speak of a word that you can't define. Much less apply.

So, instead of all your moralizing, please figure out the biblical meaning of the word.

 

[Gr8Grace]

This is an interesting statement.
Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.
1 Peter 1:22
We have spoken freely to you, Corinthians, and opened wide our hearts to you.
We are not withholding our affection from you, but you are withholding yours from us. As a fair exchange--I speak as to my children--open wide your hearts also.
2 Cor 6:11-13
The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.
Acts 16:14
May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you.
1 Thess 3:12
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.
1 Tim 1:5
Your love has given me great joy and encouragement, because you, brother, have refreshed the hearts of the saints
Phil 1:7
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind
Matt 22:37

We can only love like this with an open heart, cleansed and purified.
It is the gospel and its fruit. The fact my friend you see this as an opposition to your position shows your state.

"Love", which is synonymous with being filled and walking in the Spirit is a fruit of the Spirit.
And I agree with all these verses and how "love" is used in them......considering all your posts, you don't agree with them.

YOUR 'love' has give and take. What is in it for me? You require something before you "love." And then use your bogus definition of 'love' and transfer that to the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[LightLoveHope]

What is interesting is how much you talk about "love" yet have dodged my request that you define what that word means and what it looks like.

So that's the problem. You speak of a word that you can't define. Much less apply.

So, instead of all your moralizing, please figure out the biblical meaning of the word.

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
1 Cor 13:4-13

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:12-14

This is what love is, Jesus walking on earth, Jesus witnessing how much God loves His people and friends, that while we were His enemies He died for us.

There is always more to learn about love, how I can love you and hope that you see the glorious riches we have in Christ, that nothing can separate from the love we have in Christ if we follow Him.

It strikes me unfortunately, because I share the very heart of Jesus, and you still stand as if I have shared nothing, you heart is truly defended and hard.

I remember when I saw how little I was prepared to cause disdain in others, yet Jesus walked openly against the hypocritical teachers of the law and knew they would kill Him, yet calmly stood there and shone brightly, healing, forgiving and doing the Lord will. Amen. It breaks you, humbles you, makes you know this man, this King is God.

Thank you Jesus for your gift to us, and for the privilege to share with those around the depths of grace and mercy you have offered us, deeper than we even dream of knowing, let alone acting on. Yet you dear Lord, call us friends and given the right to walk with you, thank you Lord, Amen

 

[LightLoveHope]

"Love", which is synonymous with being filled and walking in the Spirit is a fruit of the Spirit.
And I agree with all these verses and how "love" is used in them......considering all your posts, you don't agree with them.

YOUR 'love' has give and take. What is in it for me? You require something before you "love." And then use your bogus definition of 'love' and transfer that to the Lord Jesus Christ.

I do not know what you mean, but then if it makes sense to you, I wish you well.
All I need to know is Jesus loves me and I love Him.

The rest is your own invention. I know you wish to do me harm, and put some kind of guilt on my approach and how my heart responds to Jesus.

On the idea of give and take. All free loving relationships have give and take.
Our relationship with Jesus is He gives us grace and mercy, we give Him praise, thanks and works of service. I am still staggard that we are not considered slaves, rather friends and servants, and our Lord wants our opinion and listens to our needs and desires.

This humbles me so much. How can the King of glory give us so so so much, and raise us up so highly. Now that is love at work, pride our Father has in His children. Thank you Father, I love you from the bottom of my heart, will all I am for all you have done and brought into my life, Praise your Holy Name, Amen.

 

[Gr8Grace]

This is what love is, Jesus walking on earth, Jesus witnessing how much God loves His people and friends, that while we were His enemies He died for us.

This is the answer to our differences.

The Lord Jesus Christ impersonally, unconditionally loved us while we were enemies. This is virtue love. He loved us because of who and what He is, not because of who and what we were.

If He was willing to give Himself for us on the Cross(virtue/agape love) while we were yet enemies, How much more will he do for us as His children(phileo love?)

He gave us His highest and best as enemies. It stands to reason he can do the lesser of keeping His children saved forever. John 10:28,John 5:24.

 

[Gr8Grace]

I do not know what you mean, but then if it makes sense to you, I wish you well.

Being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit doesn't make sense to you? It is the ONLY way we can love as the Lord Jesus commands of us.

All I need to know is Jesus loves me and I love Him.

You might want to figure out the definition of love. Your transferring your bogus definition of love to the Lord Jesus Christ. Your definition of love says We can be separated from Christ.

The Bibles definition of love say's NOTHING can separate us from the LOVE of Christ.
Rom 8~~37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angelsnor principalities, neither the present nor the future,nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.…

The rest is your own invention. I know you wish to do me harm, and put some kind of guilt on my approach and how my heart responds to Jesus.

Stop playing the victim. NOBODY here wishes to do you harm. Your approach is not biblical. We are showing you the biblical approach.

Not quenching the Spirit.
Not grieving the Spirit.
Be filled with the Spirit.
Walk in the Spirit.

Is not my invention. This is the ONLY way we can operate in the love that Christ commands us to operate in........It will produce that virtue/agape love that NO human being has without the Spirit.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Being filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit doesn't make sense to you? It is the ONLY way we can love as the Lord Jesus commands of us.

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 5:18-20

How are we filled with the Spirit? By praising God, by abiding in His presence, making music in your heart.

Whatever you are talking about it does not appear to be this. How could it me if your heart is cold and defended and to break out in love to our glorious King is alien to you.

You might want to figure out the definition of love. Your transferring your bogus definition of love to the Lord Jesus Christ. Your definition of love says We can be separated from Christ.

I see your point. Love must be given though the other hates you, betrays you and refuses to accept you. You must save them and give them eternal life and somehow against their will make them a loving sinless being who takes delight in God. That is actually impossible. Please tell me what parent does this to a child that wishes them dead. King David came close when his rebellious son was killed, but he was rebuked at such a thing was a sin against his army and people.

Stop playing the victim. NOBODY here wishes to do you harm. Your approach is not biblical. We are showing you the biblical approach.

It is you who see sinners made righteous holy people against their will.
Nowhere is the world or in scripture is such a thing done.

You are prepared to put your whole salvation on this idea. You will be disappointed 100%. No rebellious sinner will enter heaven, ever. You are what you are at the end, not some good spot at some point in your walk.

And you call the love Jesus planted in me fake, you call the verses I quote wrong and unimportant, you believe I am a lost hypocrite not in fellowship with God.

I fear for you if I am your worst enemy. One member of your group once told me we are the worst people in the world.

And you wish to shake my view, to convert me to your view. But honestly, how can a lost sinner be forced to be a righteous saint. Such a deluded idea. And to put your whole life and security on this!!!!

When I share your position with others they laugh, because it is the same as believing a satanist is really a saint. A joke told at a party.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 5:18-20

How are we filled with the Spirit?

1 John 1:9~~we confess/acknowledge/name and site our sins to God.

By praising God, by abiding in His presence, making music in your heart.

And nobody will truly/divinely do these things if they are not filled with the Spirit. If the Spirit has been quenched or grieved it is just a facade. An outward appearance that tries to mask the reality of the inward.

Whatever you are talking about it does not appear to be this. How could it me if your heart is cold and defended and to break out in love to our glorious King is alien to you.

Hogwash. To be filled with the Spirit and walking in the Spirit is love. His love. To love the Lord Jesus Christ is to follow His plan, not my own.

I see your point. Love must be given though the other hates you, betrays you and refuses to accept you.

Exactly. It is called virtue/agape love. And it is ONLY possible through the filling of the Holy Spirit.

We love our enemies because what is in us(Christ in us), not who and what our enemies are or are doing to us.

You are prepared to put your whole salvation on this idea. You will be disappointed 100%.

Quit lying. Or post the quote I said this in.

No rebellious sinner will enter heaven, ever.

exactamundo. Correct. Absolutely.

And you call the love Jesus planted in me fake

When did I say that? My deductions from all your post's, is that you have the love The Lord Jesus Christ expects from you QUENCHED. And you are living in a world view of love.

, you call the verses I quote wrong and unimportant,

Stop lying or post the quote.

you believe I am a lost hypocrite not in fellowship with God.

Stop lying or post the quote.

I fear for you if I am your worst enemy.

I fear for you thinking that highly of yourself.

One member of your group once told me we are the worst people in the world.

And what 'group' is that?

And you wish to shake my view, to convert me to your view.

It's not my view. If I would have stuck to my views rather than the Bibles, I would be your best cheerleader.

But honestly, how can a lost sinner be forced to be a righteous saint. Such a deluded idea.

Exactamundo.Correct. Absolutely.

When I share your position with others they laugh

Heck, I laugh when you do. It's never even closely related to what I actually said. You do the same thing with FreeGrace.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
1 Cor 13:4-13

I'm glad you know where the definition of 'love' is found.

My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

OK, nowgo back to 1 Cor 13:4-13 and point out any emotions listed under 'love'.

What I'll point out is the very clear statement of the emotions that 'love' isn't.
Does not envy, isn't proud, isn't easily angered, no delight in evil. OK. 4 emotions that 'love' isn't.

Now, let's count the emotions that 'love' is:
rejoices with the truth. So, out of 16 separate descriptions under 'love', there is only 1 emotion connected to 'love': rejoices with the truth.

There's my emotions; I love the truth. And I am angered when professing believers reject, dismiss, dodge, ignore, deny the truth.

Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
You are my friends if you do what I command.
John 15:12-14

This is what love is, Jesus walking on earth, Jesus witnessing how much God loves His people and friends, that while we were His enemies He died for us.

You still reveal no clue as to what love is. It isn't what you claim here. And you can't provide any verse that supports your unbiblical claim here.

There is always more to learn about love, how I can love you and hope that you see the glorious riches we have in Christ, that nothing can separate from the love we have in Christ if we follow Him.

Here is an example of more FALSE CLAIMS.

"nothing can separate from the love we have in Christ if we follow Him". Says you.

However, the red words cannot be found in Scripture that is in context of "nothing can separate from the love of Christ".

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
36 As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us.
38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers,
39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8

The question is posed in v.35; who shall separate us from the love of Christ.

Then Paul answers his own question in the following verses.

The green words are what CAN'T separate us from the love of God.

I separated out the blue words, to prove to you that your statement is unbiblical.

When Paul included "neither the present, nor the future", he was including ANYTHING that can happen either presently, or future to the present.

Therefore, your attachment condition "if we follow Him" is totally false.

That condition means that at any time IN THE FUTURE, if we cease to follow Him, we will be separated from the love of Christ.

Paul refutes your claim. Directly.

It strikes me unfortunately, because I share the very heart of Jesus, and you still stand as if I have shared nothing, you heart is truly defended and hard.

On the contrary, you have shared NOTHING ABOUT THE HEART OF JESUS. Nonsense.

You don't even believe what the Bible says about one's eternal security. You keep adding conditions that the Bible doesn't.

So don't lecture me about anything.

Thank you Jesus for your gift to us

Jesus' gift to us is the gift of eternal life, upon reciept of which, one shall never perish.

Which you do not believe.

and for the privilege to share with those around the depths of grace and mercy you have offered us, deeper than we even dream of knowing, let alone acting on.

Exactly what I've been doing.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
Ephesians 5:18

How are we filled with the Spirit? By praising God, by abiding in His presence, making music in your heart.

Nope. Where is any verse that says this? But of course, you don't have any evidence to support your claims.

Eph 5:18 is a command. That means it is God's will for believers. It's a command that we must actively obey. No verse says we are filled by "praising God". And to "abide in His presence" is about fellowship, which is a start to being filled, but not the end result. And we can just forget the emotionality of making music in your heart.

1 John 5:14,15 speaks of God only hearing prayers that are "according to His will". And since being filled with the Spirit IS His will, that's what we need to pray for.

However, if there is unconfessed sin in our lives, we are out of fellowship, per 1 John 1:1-9. So we can pray all day, but being out of fellowship and in need of cleansing, He doesn't hear us.

Psa 66:18 - If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:

So, before praying for the filling of the Holy Spirit, one MUST confess their sins.

Whatever you are talking about it does not appear to be this. How could it me if your heart is cold and defended and to break out in love to our glorious King is alien to you.

The only "alien" thing in our discussions is your obvious disdain of the truth of the word of God. All you've got are your unstable emotions.

And you call the love Jesus planted in me fake, you call the verses I quote wrong and unimportant, you believe I am a lost hypocrite not in fellowship with God.

Calm down, and get your emotions in check already.

No one has called you lost. But you have repeatedly failed to explain how to either in or out of fellowship. Those who believe that a saved person can perish generally demonstrate total ignorance of the whole issue of fellowship.

I fear for you if I am your worst enemy. One member of your group once told me we are the worst people in the world.

Can we just forget about all these "others" that you love to bring up, please?

And you wish to shake my view, to convert me to your view.

My goal is singular. To show you what the Bible says. Introduce you to truth.

But honestly, how can a lost sinner be forced to be a righteous saint. Such a deluded idea. And to put your whole life and security on this!!!!

Neither of us has done that. Your assumptions continue to fail.

 

[JLHargus]

Having looked over all the following Scriptures, it is clear that there is NO CLEAR STATEMENT about salvation being lost. None.

Could you point out why those were not clear. For instance what do you find unclear in the following scripture?

[Hb6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, andthe powers of the world to come, 6 if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.]

And, Jesus couldn't have been MORE CLEAR about the result of receiving the gift of eternal life; the recipients shall never perish. John 10:28

[JL: Jn10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.]

[Rms8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.]

No other thing or creature except the very creature that chooses, of his own free will, to commit a sin which brings forth death.

Jms1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.]

In order for sin to bring forth death the one who sins must first have eternal life to die spiritually. Those who do not have eternal life are already spiritually dead.

[Gal6:7 be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.]

[Gal5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.]

If one can’t lose salvation what would be the point of Paul warning OSAS people about the works of the flesh, which excludes one from inheriting the kingdom of God?