2 Thess 2:12 teaches eternal security

[LightLoveHope]

Great thing is, emotional dwarfs do not have feelings, and will not get upset or angry or lose the plot, because emotions are not part of them, and they can never be hurt, or feel joy, or need comfort or encouragement. They are saved, and they know it no matter how they live and their is no risk they could be deluded deceived individuals putting themselves up against the living God and His people.

One lady who said I should never ask to know what was in her heart, and that God did not need to know either, confessed a year later she had been hurt, and literally wanted to tear me apart. I knew that she could not face herself and her past and was just running away, yet she claimed great spiritual authority, the right to teach and put people in their place, and say the "spirit" gifting of the church was they way of the true church and "love" was the old was of doing church that had passed.

So it is easy to build up oneself into this great authority, while inside being a shell with the power to take people down. And their lies the problem. The aggressive destruction of others while denying the need within. But it is easy to fall into, if you live with a closed and heart and unresolved emotional history. One is a soldier of Christ, commissioned to destroy the evil false teachers........ Except when these false teachers turn out to be just loving disciples of Christ living a Spirit filled life, praising God as they walk in His path.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Well, here is your chance to clear it up then.

What must I do to be saved?

Repent of your sins and commit yourself to walk righteously.
Believe Jesus on the cross died as the atoning sacrifice for the forgiveness of your sins.
Open your heart to Jesus is prayer and praise to start the communion with Him.
Obey and follow Jesus's commands and the teaching of the apostles, and prophets as laid out in scripture.
Walk in faith till the day you die and you will be saved.

The Holy Spirit will lead and guide you if you open your heart to Him and ask Him for teaching and leading. Test everything to make sure it is pure and Holy according to Gods will.

Fellowship with His people and read and pray in the Spirit daily as the Lord gives you power to do so.

Now you know this, except for whatever reason you rebel against it.
That for me is a wonder.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.
Mark 12:30

Heart/kardia~~right lobe of the brain. Our mentality.(study,study,study the mind of Christ)

Soul~~our whole life force.Being

Mind~~strength of mind/our way of thinking.(Applying,applying,applying the mind of Christ)

Strength~~with all of our Ability/ all of our force/ all of our might.

 

[LightLoveHope]

What is the problem with peoples gospels?
They do not deal with their hearts, and live a closed life of pretending things are one way rather than another.

It gets so bad, they believe everything is a lie, and call good people evil and evil people good. The only way out, is to learn how we each feel and deal with aspects of life, so we have a starting place to know where we are and where we need to get to.

Jesus went to sinners, because sinners who have been rejected by society are often honest about who they are, because there is no one left to impress.

Unfortunately any social group can become the impression group rather than the honest open group, where people share their struggles, failures and successes. But this is the hope for any believers group, that they can become such a support to those around.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Heart/kardia~~right lobe of the brain. Our mentality.(study,study,study the mind of Christ)

Soul~~our whole life force.Being

Mind~~strength of mind/our way of thinking.(Applying,applying,applying the mind of Christ)

Strength~~with all of our Ability/ all of our force/ all of our might.

As I suspected a robot. Are you the new AI program pretending to be human?

 

[Gr8Grace]

Walk in faith till the day you die and you will be saved.

Thank you. So I need not retract my statement.

What must I do to be saved?

Paul, Acts 16:31~~"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL be saved..." THE gospel.

Paul, Gal 1:8~~New American Standard Bible
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

 

[Gr8Grace]

As I suspected a robot. Are you the new AI program pretending to be human?

Your emotions are getting the better of ya.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Great thing is, emotional dwarfs do not have feelings

Who are these ghost people who you ALWAYS drag into our discussions?

 

[FreeGrace2]

I said:
"I believe you are insincere"

You build you faith on the idea you are secure.

No I don't. I build my faith on what the Bible SAYS. Do you not comprehend the difference. I don't build doctrine or my faith on "ideas". That is ludicrous.

This is security idolatry.

This is delirious. My security is in Christ, who SAID that those He gives eternal life (and that includes ME) shall never perish.

It is like a sports team celebrating victory before they have even started. It is just delusion and insanity.

The total delusion and insanity here is your comparison of a sports team celebrating before starting. This clearly reveals just how much you have FAILED to understand salvation.

If I go on a mountain walk I have to prepare for the journey, set the goal, the timings, the places to rest, water to take.

Salvation is secured the MOMENT one believes. The Bible SAYS SO.

John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:11, 13. I recommend that you read these verses.

You are suggesting a few words said, a few ideas accepted and we are eternal.

No, I am TELLING you what the BIBLE SAYS.

But the hazy bit is the words and ideas and any actions.

No, the hazy bit is your comments. I have no idea what you are trying to say.

I am sincerely concerned you have no real understanding of what it means to be a new creation, born again, a whole person saved unto God.

This is hilarious. You're the one who has shown NO IDEA of what salvation even is, given your pathetic comparison of salvation to celebrating a sport game before it starts.

You have a lot of scripture but one idolatrous notion you are saved before you have even begun.

Let me help you out a bit. I AM saved WHEN I believe in Christ. The Bible says so.

So when I meet an emotional dwarf, who wants me to feel secure on the delusion of I am safe without actually doing, saying or being anything, I just say, No way.

OK, you believe that you must do something to be saved. Other than believe in Christ. That's your problem.

I love Jesus and His way of Life, His truth, the way He leads His people.

No you don't. You CAN'T love His truth when you have REJECTED His truth. So please stop trying to kid me.

 

[FreeGrace2]

LightLoveHope said: ↑
Walk in faith till the day you die and you will be saved.

Thank you. So I need not retract my statement.

What must I do to be saved?

Paul, Acts 16:31~~"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL be saved..." THE gospel.

Paul, Gal 1:8~~New American Standard Bible
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

The problem with LLH is that he erroneousy believes that he must work for his salvation. To "walk in faith" is code for earning salvation. It's a lifestyle to him, one that ultimately results in salvation.

We're just wasting our time trying to reason with him, since his views are basically no different than that of the Pharisees. Who Jesus said will 'die in their sins'.

He has rejected not only John 10:28, but John 5:24, 6:47, and 1 John 5:11, 13.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Thank you. So I need not retract my statement.

What must I do to be saved?

Paul, Acts 16:31~~"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL be saved..." THE gospel.

Paul, Gal 1:8~~New American Standard Bible
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

This is a shortened version of what I wrote.
The problem with dealing with summaries is you have to expand them to make sense.

How do you learn to drive? Believe in a driving instructor.
How do you climb a mountain? Believe in a mountain guide.
How do you operate this machine? Believe in the instruction manual.

Anyone who then says I have believed so I can drive a car, climb a mountain and operate a machine has missed the point and is just being stupid.

It is stupid to think belief is what is the point. It is the belief that this is the way of achieving your objective that you listen and obey the expert source of information. To not do this is literally to take your life in your own hands.

It is why such a way of talking for me is just mind numbing, because normal people as not this negligent and incompetent. I would fire a programmer who said they believe in html but do not know how to code it.

Worse still we are not talking about part of life, but the creator and His word.
And we are talking about truth and not deception, walking in the light and sanity, not delusion and stupid conclusions which are plainly wrong.

LSD highs where you think you can fly, are the same level of logic that is being applied here.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Working for our salvation

How does a capenter create funiture? He learns how to cut and saw wood.
How does a painter create paintings? He learns how to put paint on paper.

So a christian who is commited to follow and obey Jesus, has to follow and obey Jesus to be a christian.

It is not earning something, it is literally being it.
A liar says, I will be this and do that and then does nothing. They are what they were at the beginning with no change.

Are we born like Jesus? Are we perfect and sorted when we come to faith? No. We have to work and walk, and learn. Ofcourse if the world is actually saved, and it will just be tarted up for God, then hey, so need for this religious bit at all.

 

[Gr8Grace]

This is a shortened version of what I wrote.
The problem with dealing with summaries is you have to expand them to make sense.

How do you learn to drive? Believe in a driving instructor.
How do you climb a mountain? Believe in a mountain guide.
How do you operate this machine? Believe in the instruction manual.

Anyone who then says I have believed so I can drive a car, climb a mountain and operate a machine has missed the point and is just being stupid.

It is stupid to think belief is what is the point. It is the belief that this is the way of achieving your objective that you listen and obey the expert source of information. To not do this is literally to take your life in your own hands.

It is why such a way of talking for me is just mind numbing, because normal people as not this negligent and incompetent. I would fire a programmer who said they believe in html but do not know how to code it.

Worse still we are not talking about part of life, but the creator and His word.
And we are talking about truth and not deception, walking in the light and sanity, not delusion and stupid conclusions which are plainly wrong.

LSD highs where you think you can fly, are the same level of logic that is being applied here.

Thanks for making your short version even clearer.
So I Still need not retract my statement.

What must I do to be saved?

Paul, Acts 16:31~~"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you SHALL be saved..." THE gospel.

Paul, Gal 1:8~~New American Standard Bible
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

 

[Gr8Grace]

Working for our salvation

How does a capenter create funiture? He learns how to cut and saw wood.
How does a painter create paintings? He learns how to put paint on paper.

So a christian who is commited to follow and obey Jesus, has to follow and obey Jesus to be a christian.

It is not earning something, it is literally being it.

You should re-read this.

Because it truly is literally being IT.........your own savior.

And by the way, ever heard of the Carpenter that already did all the work and has made salvation for you........and all He ask's of you is to BELIEVE.
“Whosoever believes in me will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:15
“For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.” Jn 3:16
“He that believes on him is not condemned, but he that believes not is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” Jn 3:18
“He that believes the Son has everlasting life, and he that believes not the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” Jn 3:36
“And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one that which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”Jn 6:40
“Truly I say unto you, he that believes on me, has everlasting life.” Jn 6:47

 

[LightLoveHope]

Here is the simple problem.

Jesus says His followers will never perish, and those who love Him obey His commands.
Now someone who cannot read or put two sentences together will think they will not perish if they disobey Him.

The thing is the Lord lets people believe whatever they like, and that is the real test of love. Are you in it for knowing what love actually is, and are wedded to love and to God because your heart is now His heart, or just for the perks, because you had an off day, and need the free ticket in case life goes a bit pear shaped.

 

[Gr8Grace]

Here is the simple problem.

Jesus says His followers will never perish

Why do you insist on changing what the Lord Jesus Christ said?

He didn't say, "My followers will never perish."............He specifically said ," My sheep." John 10:27

I hear Him. He knows me. I follow Him. I am one of His sheep.

And He gave me(His sheep) eternal life and the PROMISE/TRUTH that I will never perish.John 10:28

Your in a conundrum. I am not one of His sheep? Or The Lord Jesus Christ lied to me?

Which is it?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Working for our salvation

That's what Pharisees thought. And Jesus told them they would 'die in their sins' unless they believed in Him. John 8

Eph 2:8 - For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Could not be any more clear.

But, for those who may be somewhat dense:

Rom 11:6 - And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

How does a capenter create funiture? He learns how to cut and saw wood.
How does a painter create paintings? He learns how to put paint on paper.

None of this relates to salvation.

So a christian who is commited to follow and obey Jesus, has to follow and obey Jesus to be a christian.

Again, you fail to provide any support from Scripture. You're on your own.

It is not earning something, it is literally being it.

This doesn't make any sense.

Are we born like Jesus? Are we perfect and sorted when we come to faith? No. We have to work and walk, and learn.

No. Once saved, the believer is commanded to "grow up in relation to their salvation" (1 Pet 2:2), which is what you just aren't getting.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here is the simple problem.

Jesus says His followers will never perish, and those who love Him obey His commands.
Now someone who cannot read or put two sentences together will think they will not perish if they disobey Him.

The actual "simple problem", as you put it, is your failure to properly read John 10:27-28.

v.27 is a description of what Jesus' sheep DO. They listen and follow. Not be BECOME His sheep, but because they ARE His sheep.

v.28 states both the CAUSE of possessing eternal life which is the Lord Jesus Himself, who gives eternal life to His sheep, which are believers, and the EFFECT of possessing eternal life, which is never perishing.

v.28 is a very clear statement about the that that those given eternal life shall never perish.

 

[LightLoveHope]

The actual "simple problem", as you put it, is your failure to properly read John 10:27-28.

v.27 is a description of what Jesus' sheep DO. They listen and follow. Not be BECOME His sheep, but because they ARE His sheep.

v.28 states both the CAUSE of possessing eternal life which is the Lord Jesus Himself, who gives eternal life to His sheep, which are believers, and the EFFECT of possessing eternal life, which is never perishing.

v.28 is a very clear statement about the that that those given eternal life shall never perish.

There is a simple way of expressing this. Gods people stay with Him.
The sign you are with God, is you stay with Him because sin and the world is abhorrent to you.

And His sheep shall never perish.

Your belief is someone can come to Christ and walk away, and not actually be fake or lost, but still in the Kingdom. What is clear from the apostles is false teachers arose, people left the faith, others appeared to have faith but started not showing the fruit of the Spirit while having the words.

Their response was to say, if you stay faithful to Jesus you will be saved, and not if you walk away.

Now this appears cruel until you understand what it means to be in Jesus and how forgiving and prepared He is to work with us, if we have an open heart and will listen to Him. But this requires everything we are, intellect, emotions, strength, will. Leave anything out and one will fail.

 

[LightLoveHope]

No. Once saved, the believer is commanded to "grow up in relation to their salvation" (1 Pet 2:2), which is what you just aren't getting.

Hi Free, I am getting it.

The issue is we are born by the Holy Spirit, born into grace. We cannot stand outside and say, yes this has happened. But we can say here is the fruit in our lives.
Joy, peace, patience, love, perseverance, faith, a changed view on life, and all we meet.
What we do not know is in this new birth is our learning and obedience growth in Christ or just discovering what has already taken place.

Like a baby, they are very vulnerable, and growth can be stunted and the child die.
It seems to be true in the parable of the seed and the sower.

The concept of eternal birth makes one indestructable. The problem with this idea is nothing in our experience comes with this guarantee, and many parables show an initial believers and follower is rejected. We know if we drink poison we die. So feeding ones life with sin will lead to spiritual death.

You believe Jesus guarantees we are indestructable even if we rebel and drink sinful poison.
Paul goes to great ends to say, we must stay faithful to his teaching and abide in the Spirit.

If by our nature we desire God and His ways, we will never die. So by dying one proves one is not of Christ. I would argue for those who want security in arriving, have not begun to understand who they are in Christ, and need to discover more in Christ and where they stand, before they start fearing are they saved. If our hearts are to dwell in Christ and pursue His will, we are saved.

So if one is serious in the ways of Jesus, walk in them. If not, why would Jesus consider you not worthy of facing judgement for the very rebellion one is displaying. The Lord is not fooled or one to be challenged.