2 Peter 3:10-12. Not when but how?

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes; because they have; Believed on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved.
But that ain't the end of it:
There is the little matter of true repentance and the keeping of the Commandments thereafter. Many, no: most fail in these things.
They are saved but need to go further, or become lost again.

This is such complete nonsense. You are teaching salvation by works when salvation is by grace through faith and not by works (Eph 2:8-10). Good luck trying to be good enough to be saved. That results in failure every time. It's impossible.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

TL,DR.
Unquestionably; the end of God's decreed 7000 year time for mankind , will be at The Great White Throne Judgment. Which is plainly stated to happen AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20

You are mistaken in attributing 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 the the Return of Jesus. It simply doesn't belong there. It will be fulfilled after the GWT Judgment. Proved by Revelation 21:4m only then will Death be no more.

You are the only one I've ever seen who believes this nonsense that 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 will be fulfilled 1000+ years after the return of Christ.

It's very clear that 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 will occur when the dead in Christ are resurrected at the last trumpet.

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

How in the world can you conclude that the above happens 1000+ years after the return of Christ when scripture teaches that the dead in Christ will be raised at His return? Clearly, by allowing scripture to interpret scripture, we can conclude that the last trumpet will sound at Christ's return. Earlier in the same chapter, Paul wrote this:

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There it is. When will the dead in Christ be "raised incorruptible"? Paul said in 1 Cor 15:22 that they will be raised "at His coming". Not 1000+ years later. And, based on 1 Cor 15:52, it will obviously will be at the last trumpet. So, that means Jesus will return at the last trumpet. But, amazingly, you conclude that the last trumpet will sound 1000+ years after His return, which doesn't line up with what Paul taught at all.

Paul was not speaking of a different resurrection event in 1 Cor 15:52 than he referenced in 1 Cor 15:22-23. There is no basis whatsoever for believing that. It would make nonsense of what Paul was teaching in 1 Corinthians 15.

It should be obvious that the resurrection of the dead in Christ mentioned in 1 Cor 15:22 is the same resurrection of the dead in Christ mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52 and it will be unto immortality. A vast majority of Christians are able to see the obvious connection between those passages, but you can't even see it.

 

[Oseas]

..

 

[Timtofly]

Nowhere in Scripture does it say the world will last for 7000 years. That is your own invention.

No where does it say it will last for 6000 years either.

How do you know how much longer this creation has?

 

[Timtofly]

You guys are clearly winging it, and you know it. We are well into the 7th day now according to time. This demolishes your whole thesis. Anyway, Satan's little season also forbids your claims. It is impossible for you to fit you paradigm into the scriptural revelation (including Revelation 20). What is more, nowhere in Scripture does it say the world will last for 7000 years. That is your own invention.

You are going by what? When Adam was created or when Adam sinned?

 

[Timtofly]

Really? So, it is not sin for billions of millennial inhabitants to reject Christ and righteousness and follow Satan in your estimation?

The point is that it is after the 1000 years, not during. You are missing the whole point. What happens after the 1,000 years does not effect the time in the 1000 years itself.

 

[Timtofly]

It talks about the goats being cast into everlasting fire. Why would the goats not represent all people whose names are not written in the book of life and will be cast into the lake of fire as we read about in Revelation 20:15? Again, there's no reason why not.

The goats are those of Israel who are not in the Lamb's book of life.

The wheat and tares are the Gentiles. The tares are not in the Lamb's book of life. But this is all after the Second Coming. The Second Coming is the 6th Seal even before the 7th Seal is even opened. Names are not removed until after the 7th Seal is opened.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The point is that it is after the 1000 years, not during. You are missing the whole point. What happens after the 1,000 years does not effect the time in the 1000 years itself.

So, are you denying that these billions of rebels experience your supposed future millennium? So, please answer: is it sin for these billions to reject Christ and righteousness and follow Satan in your estimation? Stop avoiding the obvious.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yes; because they have; Believed on the Lord Jesus and you shall be saved.
But that ain't the end of it:
There is the little matter of true repentance and the keeping of the Commandments thereafter. Many, no: most fail in these things.
They are saved but need to go further, or become lost again.

It is ironic that Legalists and the easy-believism are often pointing their guns at each other but they are both doing the same thing. They are both full of pride and both focused upon self.

· Legalists are focused on self-dependence. They look to themselves, their merits, abilities and achievements for hope. They operate in self-help, self-improvement and self-recognition.
· Antinomianists (or the easy-believism crowd, or the compromisers) are focused on self-indulgence and self-gratification self-attainment.

· Bible believing Christians are focused on God’s glory, His ability and His achievements on their behalf.

· The Legalist looks to himself and sees something commendable, capable and trustworthy in his flesh that can come to God and please God. They are self-centered!
· The easy-believism crowd recognizes the fact that God salvation is by grace through faith. But take that as a license to sin. They are self-centered!

· Legalism is an attempt to trust in one’s own self and efforts rather than Christ and His finished work, for acceptance before God. It is a perversion of the doctrine of justification by faith alone.
· The term Antinomianism comes from the Greek word meaning lawless.

 

[Timtofly]

So, are you denying that these billions of rebels experience your supposed future millennium? So, please answer: is it sin for these billions to reject Christ and righteousness and follow Satan in your estimation? Stop avoiding the obvious.

Stop avoiding the point it is after Satan is released after the 1000 years.

Tell me how the earth is populated if you deny procreation.

You cannot explain where billions upon billions even come from, then just claim they magically appear from no where. Then claim they are just all magically sinners and wicked.

 

[keras]

So, are you denying that these billions of rebels experience your supposed future millennium? So, please answer: is it sin for these billions to reject Christ and righteousness and follow Satan in your estimation? Stop avoiding the obvious.

You show yourself to be intransigent and unable to see anything other than the false AMill theory.
Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years is finished; THEN Satan will be released .....
Crystal clear scripture, that refutes your insistence that there will be sin during the Millennium.
Its time for you to see the obvious!

 

[keras]

· Legalism is an attempt to trust in one’s own self and efforts rather than Christ and His finished work, for acceptance before God.

This is nonsense and a failed attempt to denigrate me.
When we accept Jesus as our Savior, then we are saved. A very simple operation, confirmed by John 3:16.
BUT that is not the end of it. We should have the desire to do good works in His Name, to evangelize others and to help the poor, visit the sick and prisoners, etc.
We are expected to do good works and when the Test comes, 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13, those whose works failed, are still saved. but receive no reward.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

You show yourself to be intransigent and unable to see anything other than the false AMill theory.
Revelation 20:7 When the thousand years is finished; THEN Satan will be released .....
Crystal clear scripture, that refutes your insistence that there will be sin during the Millennium.
Its time for you to see the obvious!

Do you not believe that the following passage is talking about "the Millennium" time period?

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

This is nonsense and a failed attempt to denigrate me.
When we accept Jesus as our Savior, then we are saved. A very simple operation, confirmed by John 3:16.
BUT that is not the end of it. We should have the desire to do good works in His Name, to evangelize others and to help the poor, visit the sick and prisoners, etc.
We are expected to do good works and when the Test comes, 1 Peter 4:12, 1 Corinthians 3:13, those whose works failed, are still saved. but receive no reward.

Did you forget that you also said this in your other post:

They are saved but need to go further, or become lost again.

What did you mean by that? Is the means to keep salvation somehow different than the means to obtain salvation in the first place? That is how you are coming across, but please explain what you meant.

 

[keras]

Do you not believe that the following passage is talking about "the Millennium" time period?

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. 18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Yes; Zechariah 14:16:21, refers to the Millennium period.
Obviously, there will be some people groups who may fail to keep the pilgrim Feast of Tabernacles. King Jesus will stop their rain, as a lesson for them. They are not sinners as such, just slacko's.

What did you mean by that? Is the means to keep salvation somehow different than the means to obtain salvation in the first place? That is how you are coming across, but please explain what you meant.

I suggest you read;
James 2:14-26.....as the body is dead when there is no breath left in it, so: faith divorced from actions is dead.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes; Zechariah 14:16:21, refers to the Millennium period.
Obviously, there will be some people groups who may fail to keep the pilgrim Feast of Tabernacles. King Jesus will stop their rain, as a lesson for them. They are not sinners as such, just slacko's.

LOL. So, them not obeying the Lord would not be a sin and their punishment would not be for sinning? You're expecting me to buy this nonsense? Please get serious.

I suggest you read;
James 2:14-26.....as the body is dead when there is no breath left in it, so: faith divorced from actions is dead.

I suggest that you not suggest that I haven't read it. I've read it many times. I suggest you learn what that means. It's pretty clear that you currently don't know what it means. If you think your salvation is at all dependent on your works then you are sadly mistaken. We do good works because we are saved, not in order to obtain or maintain salvation (Ephesians 2:8-10). Our good works reflect the kind of faith we have. One who is submitted to Christ and has made Him their Lord will naturally want to serve and obey Him if their faith is genuine. But, we don't do good works to earn salvation in any way, shape or form.

 

[keras]

LOL. So, them not obeying the Lord would not be a sin and their punishment would not be for sinning? You're expecting me to buy this nonsense? Please get serious.

Your belief of AMill is nonsense. It simply defies logic, let alone scripture.

Zechariah 13:16-21 tells us that some people groups may fail in their duties and requirements during the Millennium period. They will not have been deceived by Satan, as he will be securely locked away, but simply an omission, as Ezekiel 45:20 says.

We do good works because we are saved, not in order to obtain or maintain salvation (Ephesians 2:8-10). Our good works reflect the kind of faith we have. One who is submitted to Christ and has made Him their Lord will naturally want to serve and obey Him if their faith is genuine. But, we don't do good works to earn salvation in any way, shape or form.

Exactly, I fully agree.
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 plainly says that our rewards are dependent on our works.
Its encapsulated in the Parable of the Talents.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Your belief of AMill is nonsense. It simply defies logic, let alone scripture.

Zechariah 13:16-21 tells us that some people groups may fail in their duties and requirements during the Millennium period. They will not have been deceived by Satan, as he will be securely locked away, but simply an omission, as Ezekiel 45:20 says.

Your belief that people could defy the Lord's command without it being considered sin defies all logic. Speaking of nonsense...

Exactly, I fully agree.
1 Corinthians 3:12-15 plainly says that our rewards are dependent on our works.
Its encapsulated in the Parable of the Talents.

Yet, you said this before:

They are saved but need to go further, or become lost again.

I asked you what you meant by this and you didn't think it was worth your time to explain it. You just referenced James 2 which does not teach that we're saved by works. So, make up your mind. Are works required for salvation or not? For rewards? Sure. Salvation? No.

 

[keras]

Your belief that people could defy the Lord's command without it being considered sin defies all logic.

But it isn't defiance, as your continuing attempts to denigrate me make out.
The mortal humans who populate the earth during the Millennium, will all be Christians and like Christians today, sometimes they will fall short of God's standards.

Yet, you said this before:

So 'works' is an integral part of our faith.

I asked you what you meant by this and you didn't think it was worth your time to explain it.

Many people were 'saved' by Billy Graham, but not so many truly repented and went on to do good works. Most simply lost their Salvation and the Lord has erased them from the Book of Life. Other remain saved, but will receive no rewards.

Your attitude towards other posters here, continues to be confrontational and degrading against anyone who challenges your beliefs. Not nice or conducive for genuine and worthwhile Bible prophecy study.
Why don't you just enjoy your Millennium now and leave us to discuss real issues, like; about what we can expect before Jesus Returns.

 

[Timtofly]

LOL. So, them not obeying the Lord would not be a sin and their punishment would not be for sinning? You're expecting me to buy this nonsense? Please get serious.

Seriously, you think there is sin in the NHNE?

When exactly is the Messiah Prince ruling where Egypt or any nation has to come up year after year?

If you call it sin, it is still sin in the NHNE. So what exactly is your point? That nations can still defy God in the NHNE?

If you do not place this as the Millennium, when exactly do you place it? Or was this prophecy never going to happen in the first place?

You only argue against. Yet to you, this can never happen, period. At least point that out, if you are honest with your interpretation. Point out Zechariah states these facts if history had turned out differently and there was no fulness of the Gentiles. Make the point Israel should have controlled the world for the last 1992 years, instead of being wiped out in 70AD. At least come up with some reasonable explanation why this is not a future restoration. Explain why Jesus did not save Jerusalem from Rome, and rule the world for 1000 years, instead of making the Gentiles part of the redeemed for 2000 more years instead of 1,000.

I am sure there is a logical explanation instead of some future 1000 years. Some of us accept the fact that God already knew there was 3000 years after the Cross, not just 1000 years and then the NHNE.

Nations cannot sin. Sin is attributed to individual rebellion. So saying a nation does not send a delegation and that nation does not receive rain is not on the level of personal sin.

Seriously, is sin personal or national? Do you judge each child in that nation as sinners, based on a decision at the state level? You generalize sin, as your basis of refusing a future millennium? What if they voted and as you claim 51 percent are sinners and 49 are not sinners? Is sin based on popular opinion, then? What if only 3 sinners showed up at the polls, and all voted not to attend that year? Are the rest of that nation sinners for not voting? Obviously there was probably not a vote at all, or popular opinion on the matter. A few heads of state decided for any mundane reason not to attend the annual celebration that year. You claim they are immediately sinners. Obviously they should immediately be killed, no? The rod of iron is for the instant destruction of any sinner, if one happens to pop up. After a period of no rain, I am sure many are going to recall the leadership and assign better leaders than heathen self centered ones.