2+2=5

[juvenissun]

What's common sense?

2+2=4

 

[juvenissun]

You bet.

When I see this kind of reply, it means that you have nothing better to say.

 

[Smidlee]

Nope, your opinion is wrong, Influence leads you a certain way, even under influence you still make your own decisions. Brain washed means you believe something someone tells you without question and that what they tell you is Fact, regardless of the evidence.

Once brain washed, people are usually afraid to believe something different, being Influenced still leaves doors open.

The sounds a lot like evolution. Most people believe in evolution because that what they were taught regardless of the scientific evidence (like dGRN will not allow changes which is responsible for body plans. Marshall agrees with Myers about the facts but believes somehow the past was different. It had to be for ToE to be true)
Again we all think we are just being influenced while others are brain-washed. The idea of just how much the masses were being "brain-wash" drove the unibomber mad to live like a hermit.

 

[bhsmte]

When I see this kind of reply, it means that you have nothing better to say.

I have explained it before, do some reading on; psychology of beliefs.

 

[bhsmte]

The sounds a lot like evolution. Most people believe in evolution because that what they were taught regardless of the scientific evidence (like dGRN will not allow changes which is responsible for body plans. Marshall agrees with Myers about the facts but believes somehow the past was different. It had to be for ToE to be true)
Again we all think we are just being influenced while others are brain-washed. The idea of just how much the masses were being "brain-wash" drove the unibomber mad to live like a hermit.

Some people do indeed believe in certain things based on what they have been taught and they happen to be completely wrong. Some who do believe evolution to be true likely do not understand the evidence, but the evidence does indeed exits (tons of it).

What we are talking about more, is folks who believe in things when there is an abundance of evidence that their belief is not true and they have been presented with it and they choose to believe anyway.

 

[TillICollapse]

My opinion , everyone is "brainwashed" by something or someone. Usually when we refer to ourselves we used the word "influence" while we used "brain-wash" when referring to someone with a different view. (Same as we are freedom fighters while our enemy are terrorist)

So if, in your opinion, everyone is brainwashed ... then those in the video would be brainwashed as well ? Or perhaps you'd like to use the word "influenced" in regards to them ?

What may be the thing/idea/focus/etc that is influencing, say, that first guy in the video (the 2+2=5 guy) ?

No one lives or dies to themselves. Pride keeps us from seeing how much of the culture we live in influence us. Those in power always tries to influence (brain-wash) the masses. If they can't use religion they will use education. I find in interesting some of those in the past commented that one of the threats to America was our public education system but haven't heard that in years. There is good reason the more educated someone becomes the more likely they declare themselves an atheist.
When I went to college I had a professor address the fact that 95% of the stuff we learn we would never use IRL. Someone asked then why waste the time learning it. He said it's to "brain-wash" ( I was surprised he used that word) everyone to think a certain way. He used the military as an example as often you can tell someone been in the military without them mentioning it.

Not taking into account potential visual cues, how do you think you can tell someone has been in the military without them mentioning it ?

 

[bhsmte]

2+2=4

That's math.

 

[TillICollapse]

That's math.

You know, someone believing 2+2=5 could be very lucrative

 

[bhsmte]

You know, someone believing 2+2=5 could be very lucrative

Sure, if you have an audience, it can be lucrative.

It has worked well for people like Ken Ham.

 

[TillICollapse]

Sure, if you have an audience, it can be lucrative.

It has worked well for people like Ken Ham.

Oh it goes deeper than that lol.

 

[juvenissun]

I have explained it before, do some reading on; psychology of beliefs.

This one is even worse.

 

[juvenissun]

That's math.

That is math?

 

[bhsmte]

This one is even worse.

Sorry you feel that way.

The Psychology of Rejecting the Science of Evolution | Joe Arrigo PERSPECTIVE

 

[bhsmte]

That is math?

Indeed, addition is math.

 

[Michael]

Indeed, addition is math.

Exactly.

FYI, I want to thank you folks for your insights. They did shed some light on the basic nature of the problem, specifically that issue of "doubt". Some folks even treat 'science' a bit like a "religion" with zero allowable room for doubt. That inability to even allow for the potential of being wrong does seem to be the emotional trigger in there somewhere. I think your conversations were quite enlightening. Thanks.

 

[TillICollapse]

Exactly.

FYI, I want to thank you folks for your insights. They did shed some light on the basic nature of the problem, specifically that issue of "doubt". Some folks even treat 'science' a bit like a "religion" with zero allowable room for doubt. That inability to even allow for the potential of being wrong does seem to be the emotional trigger in there somewhere. I think your conversations were quite enlightening. Thanks.

I think when a person is more concerned with being correct in their own eyes, they have eclipsed their own desire to know what may actually be truth.

Concerning "doubt" ... perhaps many believers may be afraid to doubt because it is equated with negative consequences (i.e. the snake in the Garden, etc).

 

[bhsmte]

I think when a person is more concerned with being correct in their own eyes, they have eclipsed their own desire to know what may actually be truth.

Concerning "doubt" ... perhaps many believers may be afraid to doubt because it is equated with negative consequences (i.e. the snake in the Garden, etc).

Agree.

If one chooses to take a position they could never be wrong, they are much less likely to learn new information that goes against their own position of; no possibility of being wrong.

 

[Smidlee]

Sorry you feel that way.

The Psychology of Rejecting the Science of Evolution | Joe Arrigo PERSPECTIVE

From the article: "[FONT=andale mono,times]The results were that these participants after reading Sagan’s thoughts, were more likely to accept evolutionary science and reject ID despite writing about death beforehand. So, the researchers’ conclusions were that these studies suggest when people do not perceive evolution as a threat to meaning and purpose, and instead view it as a means to understanding the world,..."

[/FONT]
Or the fact as 20/20 news program pointed out many times throughout the years often people will choose an answer when influence by others even when they know it's the wrong answer. In one case 20/20 had 1/3 of a class to point to the wrong answer on the blackboard on purpose and saw most of the other 2/3 of the class pointing at the exact answer when the correct answer was obvious. So if you have them to read from an "evolution" expert before answering most will just "follow the crowd" and give the "expected" answer.

It's not uncommon for people to fit in to their surroundings. They will get drunk with their friends on Saturday and then praise the Lord in church on Sunday.

 

[bhsmte]

From the article: "[FONT=andale mono,times]The results were that these participants after reading Sagan’s thoughts, were more likely to accept evolutionary science and reject ID despite writing about death beforehand. So, the researchers’ conclusions were that these studies suggest when people do not perceive evolution as a threat to meaning and purpose, and instead view it as a means to understanding the world,..." [/FONT]


Or the fact as 20/20 news program pointed out many times throughout the years often people will choose an answer when influence by others even when they know it's the wrong answer. In one case 20/20 had 1/3 of a class to point to the wrong answer on the blackboard on purpose and saw most of the other 2/3 of the class pointing at the exact answer when the correct answer was obvious. So if you have them to read from an "evolution" expert before answering most will just "follow the crowd" and give the "expected" answer.

Following a crowd is one thing, acknowledging objective evidence is another.

The article also discusses the "comfort factor" on how this plays in people who do not want to let go of a belief, even when evidence goes against it.

 

[Smidlee]

Following a crowd is one thing, acknowledging objective evidence is another.

The article also discusses the "comfort factor" on how this plays in people who do not want to let go of a belief, even when evidence goes against it.

The "comfort factor" works both ways as most are comfortable of following the crowd, don't rock the boat, being in the middle of the road ,etc.

I feel the same about evolution like Marshall will not let go of his belief when the evidence goes clearly goes against them. He will even admit living cells had to be a lot more flexible in the past than they are today ( the only cells scientist can test) for ToE to be true. He stills believes in spite of the evidence.