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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
2+2=5
- Thread starter Old Ned
- Start date
Strawmen are tiring and suck. Aside from straight up trolls (I'm not calling you one, btw), I think strawmen are probably the most tiresome aspect of internet discussions. After that is probably ad homs imo.
I never said anything close to what you just stated.
If you are willing, take the very first speaker in the video (the one who talks about not questioning that 2+2=5 if it were in the Bible, etc) ... and explain to me, in your opinion, what he could say differently from what he is already saying, which may cause you to consider that he may be brainwashed or in the process of being brainwashed.
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- Jun 18, 2006
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I think it doesn't matter.
If Jesus was laughed and mocked, His followers will be laughed and mocked as well ... whether they try or not.
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juvenissun
... and God saw that it was good.
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bhsmte
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Sure, we all have psychological needs that are unique to us, just like our finger prints are unique.
In some, their psychological needs are so powerful, they choose to believe in certain things, because it satisfies these needs. When these needs are powerful enough, it is far to painful to accept objective evidence that points to their beliefs being wrong. When this happens, psychological gymnastics will begin, to protect the belief at all costs.
We see this phenomenon exhibited on this board quite often.
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- Oct 23, 2013
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I don't remember anyone saying anyone was a heretic.
But cult, sorry but all religions are cults as defined by the Oxford English Dictionary.
And no, accepting Science isn't a cult, before you say it, anymore than accepting you have a TV in your house is a cult. Because these things are fact, there's nothing to believe in or have faith in because we KNOW because we can see it..... know in the actual use of the word as opposed to some who seem to think because it's written down means it's true.
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juvenissun
... and God saw that it was good.
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Ok, while this is off topic, ... in what way was Jesus mocked Av?.... serious question, I'm asking what kind of "mocking" was he victim to?
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I would hazard a guess he means psychological needs.... just basing that on the fact he said it.
By psychological needs could be comfort of some sort, release of aggression, drawing strength, there are many.
Same kind of needs everyone has to different degrees.
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bhsmte
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Needs of comfort.
We all seek comfort and different things bring comfort to each of us.
Some get comfort by acquiring knowledge that is verifiable, others don't. Some seek comfort by believing in a supreme being that is looking out for them and will provide eternal life, others don't.
How we are each wired and the environment we were raised, will have impact on how we seek comfort.
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Smidlee
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Let's me translates what he said: The Bible is more real and more true to him than even mathematics which I totally agree. I love mathematics yet the most important things in my life has nothing to do with math.
From your own source 1.2 :"a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular thing:" This would included science,TV, money,etc.
One of the main objective of TV is to "brainwash" you. TV targets the youth for a reason.
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I still don't understand one specific type of behavior (I call it hater behavior) that doesn't make any sense to me. I often see people play the role of a very aggressive protagonist, but usually the role of the antagonist that insists on trying to publicly debate a particular topic that they don't even begin to understand.
They tend to become rather belligerent over time too. Since the science is typically not on their side, their focus of 'attack' tends to be aimed at the individual, and burning strawmen. They are usually forced into a position of pure denial over the actual science. It still doesn't seem to stop the aggressive behavior, in fact it seems to make them even angrier.
If they had some understanding of the topic I could understand them having strong feelings about the topic. Typically however when asked, a lot of them haven't ever even read a textbook on the topic in question, and don't seem to even have so much as a rudimentary understanding of the topic.
Many of them will stick to their guns, and go down blazing, even when they've been repeatedly shot full of holes, and it's been clearly demonstrated repeatedly that they are unable to provided peer reviewed materials to support their own claims.
I just don't quite grasp that behavior. Why even aggressively publicly debate a topic if you've never studied it? I don't get it?
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bhsmte
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I still don't understand one specific type of behavior (I call it hater behavior) that doesn't make any sense to me. I often see people play the role of a very aggressive protagonist, but usually the role of the antagonist that insists on trying to publicly debate a particular topic that they don't even begin to understand.
They tend to become rather belligerent over time too. Since the science is typically not on their side, their focus of 'attack' tends to be aimed at the individual, and burning strawmen. They are usually forced into a position of pure denial over the actual science. It still doesn't seem to stop the aggressive behavior, in fact it seems to make them even angrier.
If they had some understanding of the topic I could understand them having strong feelings about the topic. Typically however when asked, a lot of them haven't ever even read a textbook on the topic in question, and don't seem to even have so much as a rudimentary understanding of the topic.
Many of them will stick to their guns, and go down blazing, even when they've been repeatedly shot full of holes, and it's been clearly demonstrated repeatedly that they are unable to provided peer reviewed materials to support their own claims.
I just don't quite grasp that behavior. Why even aggressively publicly debate a topic if you've never studied it? I don't get it?
The behavior you describe is likely from someone experiences cognitive dissonance. When someone has a strong belief and is presented with evidence that points in another direction, they experience cognitive dissonance - have two separate thoughts that contradict one another. it isn't pleasant, so a person has a choice. Either accept the new evidence and let go of their belief, or, attack the new evidence in order to restore order of their long held belief.
They always say, the cover up is always worse than the original mistake and this is so true with those who ignore boatloads of evidence and end up digging a deeper and deeper hole. Their need to hold the belief trumps reality and creates a vicious cycle of rationalization to protect the belief.
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That's not what I asked of you ... I didn't ask you if you agreed with his stance, nor to translate what he is already saying. I asked you, in your opinion, what he could say differently from what he is already saying, which may cause you to consider that he may be brainwashed or in the process of being brainwashed.
Would you like to try and answer it again ?
Concerning what you said here, which has nothing to do with what I asked ... you are arguably exhibiting confirmation bias. Therefore it would make sense that you would not view such an individual as the 2+2=5 fellow as exhibiting "brainwashed" behavior and/or thought processes. If I asked a group of Charles Manson followers if they thought each other was brainwashed, they would likely say no. But anyways ... I'd rather focus on my initial question if you are able to answer it.
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Dissonance reduction.
There's got to be a line that gets crossed, however, to where it's no longer just "dissonance reduction".
Oppressing an entire group of people into a singular, unquestioned belief (for example) ... is going beyond dissonance reduction. When someone is fully convinced that they are not only correct, but have an obligation and a right to get others in-line with how they think reality should look ... it's as though the dissonance gap has been either completely closed, or completely filled, and there is no longer any dissonance being experienced to close the gap on. The "True Believer".
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