16 dead in Germany school shooting

High Fidelity

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I'm just saying strict gun control doesn't stop it.

When you drive, do you wear a seat belt?

Do you leave your home and vehicle unlocked at all times?

I'm curious, because if there's no point in taking such actions to limit a risk -- a well documented and statistically probably risk -- why would a person do those things?
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Looks like gun control has not much to do with it.
M-Bob

Erfurt school massacre - Wikipedia

So... That happened 16 years ago... And during that year they had what they called a “bloodbath” with a record number of gun deaths. Germans were so shocked and outraged, they changed their gun laws almost overnight.

In the years since the last shooting (2009), they’ve instituted things like year-long waiting periods, psych evals before you can buy a gun, a task force who’s job it is to come to gun owners homes and see that their guns are stored and locked, loss of your firearms for crimes like DUI and theft or domestic violence, they have a registry, and random psych tests.

Now their rate of gun deaths is 2ish (1.67 to be exact) per 1 million compared to the US with a death rate of 32 per 1 million.

By the way, that year that changed everything... The “bloodbath” year that horrified them to drastic change? The number that so horrified a nation that people turned in 200,000 guns and locked down their gun laws to be the toughest in Europe?

106.

Meanwhile, in America, 17 kids and teachers are slaughtered in a school and gun sales for the gun that butchered these kids jumped almost 200%.

So... I don’t know what comparison between Germany and the US you were trying to make... But I don’t think it worked.
 
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Zoii

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So... That happened 16 years ago... And during that year they had what they called a “bloodbath” with a record number of gun deaths. Germans were so shocked and outraged, they changed their gun laws almost overnight.

In the years since the last shooting (2009), they’ve instituted things like year-long waiting periods, psych evals before you can buy a gun, a task force who’s job it is to come to gun owners homes and see that their guns are stored and locked, loss of your firearms for crimes like DUI and theft or domestic violence, they have a registry, and random psych tests.

Now their rate of gun deaths is 2ish (1.67 to be exact) per 1 million compared to the US with a death rate of 32 per 1 million.

By the way, that year that changed everything... The “bloodbath” year that horrified them to drastic change? The number that so horrified a nation that people turned in 200,000 guns and locked down their gun laws to be the toughest in Europe?

106.

Meanwhile, in America, 17 kids and teachers are slaughtered in a school and gun sales for the gun that butchered these kids jumped almost 200%.

So... I don’t know what comparison between Germany and the US you were trying to make... But I don’t think it worked.
Wow did you see Japan's figures. Overall homicide rate of 0.3 and death by shooting (for any reason) is ZERO. Now thats a benchmark worth examining. Not to mention the country is just beautiful.
 
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redleghunter

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Just proves that strict gun control can't and won't stop people from getting guns and committing these horrible crimes.
Part of the problem is guns are available for sale in a society which is nihilistic.

This is the society we live in all thanks to the counterculture. We reap what we show as a society.

The majority of America citizens are responsible lawful gun owners. If more stringent gun laws are enacted, the very same responsible lawful gun owners will obey.

The unstable violent types won't.

The only effective gun control measure would be the repeal of the 2nd Amendment. Even then violent and unstable people will find a way to kill on mass levels.

What I don't understand is we have trained armed guards or peace officers stationed at every public building or site to include city hall, airports, sporting events, and city council buildings. Why not schools which are the most vulnerable and where our children reside during the day?

Instead we have gun free zones specifically targeted by these murderers. They know no one on staff or security is packing heat. Why attack a tiger when a lamb is readily available.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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Wow did you see Japan's figures. Overall homicide rate of 0.3 and death by shooting (for any reason) is ZERO. Now thats a benchmark worth examining. Not to mention the country is just beautiful.

I kind of leave them out of the equation when discussing guns. Their culture is so very different to ours that I find people who don’t get the gun control standpoint write them off as a “well, that’s their culture” thing. A statistical fluke.

European countries, though, that’s different. Their system of government and lifestyle is tangibly more relatable than ours is and more of a linear comparison.
 
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JackRT

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Yes they had another school shooting in 2009.
Australia hasnt had a school shooting ever but had 13 mass shootings in the 18 years leading to 1996. In 1996 they bought back every single semi-automatic and automatic weapon and destroyed them and then legislated severely. Since then there have been ZERO mass shootings of any type.

Not just no mass shootings but I understand that the number of suicides and accidental gun shootings has also gone down significantly in Australia.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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What I don't understand is we have trained armed guards or peace officers stationed at every public building or site to include city hall, airports, sporting events, and city council buildings. Why not schools which are the most vulnerable and where our children reside during the day?

Instead we have gun free zones specifically targeted by these murderers. They know no one on staff or security is packing heat. Why attack a tiger when a lamb is readily available.

That’s like saying “if you’re drowning, what you really need is more water so you can learn to breathe underwater better.” The solution to too many guns getting into the wrong hands isn’t to give more guns to more people, especially in a school which is made up of hundreds and hundreds of little “wrong hands.”

Not to mention nobody wants their kids going to school in the Wild West, where the way they protect against shootings at school is to give somebody at the school a way to shoot. And that giving handguns to somebody to defend children against a guy with the weaponry the school shooters have is about as effective as giving somebody a feather to defend themselves in a sword fight.

We as people who don’t want to be shot have all made change after change after change to make it harder to be shot at. We are still dying at a rate that’s nothing short of shocking. Now that we’ve done our due diligence to not get shot at, it is time to see the other side to some due diligence to not shoot. If you’re one of the majority of law abiding gun owners, going through steps to prove as much shouldn’t be a big deal.
 
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Zoii

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Not just no mass shootings but I understand that the number of suicides and accidental gun shootings has also gone down significantly in Australia.
It has but many here would like to see it further restricted. We still have 0.16 gun homicides per 100 000. Most of it is domestic violence related.
 
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Zoii

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Part of the problem is guns are available for sale in a society which is nihilistic.

This is the society we live in all thanks to the counterculture. We reap what we show as a society.

The majority of America citizens are responsible lawful gun owners. If more stringent gun laws are enacted, the very same responsible lawful gun owners will obey.

The unstable violent types won't.

The only effective gun control measure would be the repeal of the 2nd Amendment. Even then violent and unstable people will find a way to kill on mass levels.

What I don't understand is we have trained armed guards or peace officers stationed at every public building or site to include city hall, airports, sporting events, and city council buildings. Why not schools which are the most vulnerable and where our children reside during the day?

Instead we have gun free zones specifically targeted by these murderers. They know no one on staff or security is packing heat. Why attack a tiger when a lamb is readily available.
You have probably grown up with guns. You probably have a respect for them and use them in a very responsible way. You probably store your gun carefully and behave extremely responsibly.

Gun control isn't aimed at you. Its aimed at all those people giving you and guns a bad rap because they are not as responsible as you. For the sake of your family and community, the strategies you deploy as a community should identify the risks those people pose and manage the risks accordingly. Unfortunately your NRA is against any type of risk mitigation that may impact on the right to carry and use a gun.
 
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r4.h

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Yes they had another school shooting in 2009.
Australia hasnt had a school shooting ever but had 13 mass shootings in the 18 years leading to 1996. In 1996 they bought back every single semi-automatic and automatic weapon and destroyed them and then legislated severely. Since then there have been ZERO mass shootings of any type.

America WAKE UP, as seen above. Guns are good for hunting and self protection, (subjective opinion) but who needs semi auto and auto guns? Start here, it meets the pro gun right group halfway and its atleast a start rather than outright no guns, which aint going to happen without some redneck going off.
 
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redleghunter

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That’s like saying “if you’re drowning, what you really need is more water so you can learn to breathe underwater better.” The solution to too many guns getting into the wrong hands isn’t to give more guns to more people, especially in a school which is made up of hundreds and hundreds of little “wrong hands.”
I advocated trained armed guards or peace officers. Not untrained children and teachers. We have such in just about all public and government facilities why not the most vulnerable? Why let violent offenders the free exercise of death?

Not to mention nobody wants their kids going to school in the Wild West, where the way they protect against shootings at school is to give somebody at the school a way to shoot. And that giving handguns to somebody to defend children against a guy with the weaponry the school shooters have is about as effective as giving somebody a feather to defend themselves in a sword fight.
It's not the wild west when there's a sheriff in town. My school district employs campus police for our high schools. Much like what every university has. Why are college students more important than elementary and secondary school students?

We as people who don’t want to be shot have all made change after change after change to make it harder to be shot at. We are still dying at a rate that’s nothing short of shocking. Now that we’ve done our due diligence to not get shot at, it is time to see the other side to some due diligence to not shoot. If you’re one of the majority of law abiding gun owners, going through steps to prove as much shouldn’t be a big deal.
I'm all for records search for prior crimes AND mental and emotional illness.
But the Democrats in Congress are against release of psychiatric records and lists of drugs.

Do I think someone on psychotropic drugs should be able to buy guns? No.

I'm also for state mandatory certification of CC gun owners like we have in Texas.

I'm also for mandatory gun and rifle safety courses before stepping on a firing range. The type the NRA encourages and sponsors. Too many yahoos on the ranges I go to don't know basic safety. To the point now where I will only take my sons to private ranges on ranches where no one else is shooting but me and the boys who know how to handle weapons and have learned they are not toys. I'm retired military and a veteran. Proper training and safety is first and foremost in military weapons training.

Finally, I'm sure you saw my comment on how our society has become nihilistic. That's the main danger out there as guns have been around a long time. I don't think the majority of our current society is to be trusted with guns. My personal opinion and why I support background checks to include for mental and psychological disorders, treatments and drugs.

An estimated 40 million Americans are on psychiatric drugs:

An estimated 40 million Americans take psychiatric drugs. Here's what they're taking.

I've served as an investigative officer in two Article 32 investigations while on active duty. In both the defense objected to having the defendants psychiatric records opened to me and eventually to the Court Martial panel. They stated privacy laws. Do you really think Democrats in Congress will sign on to a bill which allows local law enforcement to violate someone's 4th Amendment rights? I don't see that happening at all.

Therefore, what you propose are stricter measures on background checks looking for crimes. That already happens. Or are you saying a longer waiting period would reduce gun crime?
 
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JackRT

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It has but many here would like to see it further restricted. We still have 0.16 gun homicides per 100 000. Most of it is domestic violence related.

I am ashamed that it is 0.38 in Canada. The United States is an astonishing 3.60
 
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redleghunter

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You have probably grown up with guns. You probably have a respect for them and use them in a very responsible way. You probably store your gun carefully and behave extremely responsibly.

Gun control isn't aimed at you. Its aimed at all those people giving you and guns a bad rap because they are not as responsible as you. For the sake of your family and community, the strategies you deploy as a community should identify the risks those people pose and manage the risks accordingly. Unfortunately your NRA is against any type of risk mitigation that may impact on the right to carry and use a gun.
I'm not an NRA member. However I do believe they support background checks.

Cornyn introduces NRA-supported background-check bill

At least that was the story in 2015.
 
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redleghunter

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I am ashamed that it is 0.38 in Canada. The United States is an astonishing 3.60
We have a lot more angry, nihilistic and medicated people. Just a fact.

We also have jammed packed cities where more angry, nihilistic and medicated people are in close contact.

Can we send you a few million so you can spread them out over that vast Great White (snow folks not people) North?

(Disclaimer: some sarcasm was used in response to this post. No intention was made to culturally appropriate Canadian culture or cuisine)
 
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redleghunter

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America WAKE UP, as seen above. Guns are good for hunting and self protection, (subjective opinion) but who needs semi auto and auto guns? Start here, it meets the pro gun right group halfway and its atleast a start rather than outright no guns, which aint going to happen without some redneck going off.
Automatic weapons are banned from general purchase. I think you have to actually be a state run militia to have automatic weapons.

I'm sure you've seen definitions of semi automatic weapons .

Here's the reality. Any weapon that you can pull the trigger and a bullet comes out and another is loaded is semi automatic. Some might argue a revolver is semi auto because you squeeze the trigger, a bullet comes out, you pull the trigger again a bullet comes out.

That would make my son's .22 rifle semi automatic.

Now if hunters need a 30 round magazine they ain't hunting just mercilessly filling an animal with holes.
 
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redleghunter

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I am ashamed that it is 0.38 in Canada. The United States is an astonishing 3.60
Let's talk about some good news for Canada. Your figure skating pair won gold again and they managed to keep their clothes intact unlike the French. Congrats Ohh Canada!
 
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JackRT

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Let's talk about some good news for Canada. Your figure skating pair won gold again and they managed to keep their clothes intact unlike the French. Congrats Ohh Canada!

It was a fitting end to a long career. It was a beautiful artistic dance by two phenomenal athletes.
 
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Zoii

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It was a fitting end to a long career. It was a beautiful artistic dance by two phenomenal athletes.
Do you know Australia's only gold medal in the men's speed skating came when our guy was well behind coming last into the home stretch when the lead skater fell taking every single other skater out - our guy being so far back had time to nicely skate around them and take Gold - woohoo - my dad laughed and laughed.
 
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r4.h

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Do you know Australia's only gold medal in the men's speed skating came when our guy was well behind coming last into the home stretch when the lead skater fell taking every single other skater out - our guy being so far back had time to nicely skate around them and take Gold - woohoo - my dad laughed and laughed.

Lol, can add that to under arm bowling too then. Classic move though.

Sorry couldnt resist.
 
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