15 Questions for all

[arunma]

You are talking of "freedom of religion" yet if one posts anything in favour of their religion here on this site it gets deleted or posters get warnings.

Wha...

Practice what you preach...

Once again you're diverted the topic. Do you try to protect Hindus from Christianity, or don't you? Honestly I'm not sure if I should be asking; every time I make a legitimate argument, you respond with a smiley.

Anyway, this is a private online forum, not a government sponsored public area. If you don't like the rules, you're free to leave. You might as well be asking for the right to install idolatrous Hindu gods in church buildings.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste NFF,

thank you for the post.

It doesn't prove anything. It's a theory without evidence.

do you agree with the theory of Karma when your St. Paul explains it?

why or why not?

metta,

~v

 

[sanaa]

and just a note to latreia , there are many other hindu charitable organizations than the ones i named. hindus contribute to a lot of organizations which may be hindu or secular

 

[arunma]

do you agree with the theory of Karma when your St. Paul explains it?

I think you've forgotten that the saying "you reap what you sow" is quite different from karma, because it omits any belief in reincarnation. Do you recognize the difference?

 

[vajradhara]

You are talking of "freedom of religion" yet if one posts anything in favour of their religion here on this site it gets deleted or posters get warnings.

satay

in truth, Satay, this is nothing of arunmas doing.

this is the stated Code of Conduct for this particular forum.

whilst i understand the frustration of beings slandering your religion, there is nothing that can be done about it on this particular forum, other than gentle correction and, hopefully, the presentation of accurate information.

clearly, if this presentation of accurate information violates the CoC, it will be removed.

this does make the conversation here a bit stifled and, in all honesty, tilted towards the Christian. by the same token, this is the Christian Forums, so this is precisely what one would expect, in my view.

metta,

~v

 

[New_Found_Faith]

do you agree with the theory of Karma when your St. Paul explains it?

Not in the sence that Rahul does. Please post the specific passage, so we're on the same page.

 

[satay]

Once again you're diverted the topic. Do you try to protect Hindus from Christianity, or don't you? Honestly I'm not sure if I should be asking; every time I make a legitimate argument, you respond with a smiley.

Anyway, this is a private online forum, not a government sponsored public area. If you don't like the rules, you're free to leave. You might as well be asking for the right to install idolatrous Hindu gods in church buildings.

First of all, as I have told you many times there are already idols in the churches that I have visited. Next time, I will sure to bring my camera and post some pictures for you. You should first throw those out then point finger at our idols.

Second, if you cry foul about "relgious freedom" then everyone should have it across the board. The rules of this board are such that you can not "have religious freedom" while you sit there and cry foul about "religious freedom" in India so that the poor and uneducated be raped...

It's a private online forum so then for sure it should practice the "freedom of religion" that you tout so often in your anti-hindu posts.

Seriously, I think that you converted to christianity because of some emotional trouble with your "hindu" family. I have yet to see any positive post from you on Jesus or christianity. All you produce is anti-hindu propaganda. People like you who convert to christianity to get back to their ex religion are simply emotionally unstable. It's understable but from your posts it seems like you are abusing Jesus and christianity's name for your own hidden agenda of some satisfaction to get back to your "hindu" family.

That's just my opinion.

satay

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste arunma,

thank you for the post.

I think you've forgotten that the saying "you reap what you sow" is quite different from karma, because it omits any belief in reincarnation. Do you recognize the difference?

perhaps you are not as conversant with the theory of Karma as you would have us believe?

karma, per se, does not depend on reincarnation or rebirth to function. it is operative without reference to any additinal arising, one way or the other.

it is, in reality, the theory that St. Paul explained to you... "you reap what you sow."

naturally, your reincarnation is different than what we understand in the various Eastern traditions, your reincarnation happens only once, and you go to heaven or hell or limbo, depending on what Christian school you may adhere to.

nevertheless... i'll put the question to you as well.

do you believe that "what you reap, so shall you sow."? if so, why? if not, why not?

metta,

~v

 

[satay]

this does make the conversation here a bit stifled and, in all honesty, tilted towards the Christian. by the same token, this is the Christian Forums, so this is precisely what one would expect, in my view.


~v

Namaste vajradhara,

I disagree with you. If you cry foul about not having religious freedom then at the very least you should allow others the religious freedom first if not for any other reason then for show of good faith.

Simply saying these are the rules or leave if you want is ridiculous in my opinion.

satay

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste NFF,

thank you for the post.

Not in the sence that Rahul does. Please post the specific passage, so we're on the same page.

how do you know that this is so?

there are several places where karma is expounded in the Torah and the New Testament. in particular, these verses:

Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.

Hsa 10:12 Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for [it is] time to seek the LORD, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.

Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

Pro 22:8 He that soweth iniquity shall reap vanity: and the rod of his anger shall fail.

1Cr 9:11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, [is it] a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

and it really gets no more plain than this, in my view:

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


metta,

~v

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste Satay,

thank you for the post.

Namaste vajradhara,

I disagree with you.

you will note, doubtlessly, that regardless of your agreement or not, that is the situation that exists here in this particular forum.

If you cry foul about not having religious freedom then at the very least you should allow others the religious freedom first if not for any other reason then for show of good faith.

whilst i agree with this view, that is not the view of this particular forum. this forum is not concerned with relgious freedom or anything of that nature, really. though this is the non-Christian section of the forum and as a consequence, the rules for this particular section are a bit relaxed in this regard.

Simply saying these are the rules or leave if you want is ridiculous in my opinion.

satay

i agree. by the same token, unless you can convince Irwin, the fellow that actually owns this site, to change the rules, that is how it will go down... i've had several threads shut down.

once, i had one shut down because i explained the meaning of a Sanskrit term! even though that was the point of the entire post!

what it really boils down to, in my opinion, is that some beings that read your posts (and mine for that matter) find our very existence to be an affront to their sensibilities and, perhaps, even God itself. as a consequence, our posts are quite likely to be reported to a sympathetic ear. even if that is not the case, vis a vie sympathy, the amount of reports will also determine if a thread gets closed or removed and so forth.

it is a rather poor situation, yet, it is the situation that exists on this forum. as such, i would offer friendly advice to realize this is the case and it may help to lessen your frustration whilst you are here.

metta,

~v

 

[satay]

Namaste Satay,

thank you for the post.



you will note, doubtlessly, that regardless of your agreement or not, that is the situation that exists here in this particular forum.



whilst i agree with this view, that is not the view of this particular forum. this forum is not concerned with relgious freedom or anything of that nature, really. though this is the non-Christian section of the forum and as a consequence, the rules for this particular section are a bit relaxed in this regard.



i agree. by the same token, unless you can convince Irwin, the fellow that actually owns this site, to change the rules, that is how it will go down... i've had several threads shut down.

once, i had one shut down because i explained the meaning of a Sanskrit term! even though that was the point of the entire post!

what it really boils down to, in my opinion, is that some beings that read your posts (and mine for that matter) find our very existence to be an affront to their sensibilities and, perhaps, even God itself. as a consequence, our posts are quite likely to be reported to a sympathetic ear. even if that is not the case, vis a vie sympathy, the amount of reports will also determine if a thread gets closed or removed and so forth.

it is a rather poor situation, yet, it is the situation that exists on this forum. as such, i would offer friendly advice to realize this is the case and it may help to lessen your frustration whilst you are here.

metta,

~v

No. I don't buy this. This forum is a christian forum. They are touting "religious freedom". People like arunma cry foul that there is no religious freedom to practice their religion in other countries.

So my question is: since this is a christian forum and you tout about religious freedom why not first provide such freedom to others to show how it should be done.

Be the change that you want to see!

This is hypocrisy at its best. But I digress.

satay

 

[indianx]

Once again you're diverted the topic. Do you try to protect Hindus from Christianity, or don't you? Honestly I'm not sure if I should be asking; every time I make a legitimate argument, you respond with a smiley.

I have seen a post of yours in another topic saying you wouldn't want Christian children even let near Hinduism. Is this freedom of religion? Do you try to protect Christians from Hinduism? Also, about your opinion concerning Hindus being thankless, it is nothing more than an opinion, just like the KKK's opinion that blacks are inferior. From my experience, I have seen the exact opposite.

 

[ServantofTheOne]

1- What happens to you after you die?

At the time of death, a person’s soul is separated from his/her body and the body is buried. It decompses and becomes one with the dust whereas the soul lives on, but passive in a state of sleep until they are resurrected on the Day of Judgement. We call this the life of the grave, this state can be blissful slumber or it can be painful, depending on the actions and belief of the person while they were alive on earth. on the Day of Judgement all humanity that ever lived will be raised back to life for judgement. By the Creators will those who recieves his mercy will be granted heavan, and those who earned his wrath will enter the fire.

And he (i.e. man) presents for Us an example (i.e. attempting to establish the finality of death) and forgets his [own] creation. He says, “Who will give life to bones while they are disintegrated?” Say, “He will give them life who produced them the first time; and He is, of all creation, Knowing.” [It is] He who made for you from the green tree, fire, and then from it you ignite. Is not He who created the heavens and the earth Able to create the likes of them? Yes, [it is so]; and He is the Knowing Creator. (Quran, 36:78-81)

And they say, “There is not but our worldly life; we die and live (i.e. some people die and others live, replacing them) and nothing destroys us except time.” And they have of that no knowledge; they are only assuming. And when Our verses are recited to them as clear evidences, their argument is only that they say, “Bring [back] our forefathers, if you should be truthful.” Say, “God causes you to live, then causes you to die; then He will assemble you for the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt,” but most of the people do not know. (Quran, 45:24-26)

 

[vajradhara]

No. I don't buy this. This forum is a christian forum. They are touting "religious freedom". People like arunma cry foul that there is no religious freedom to practice their religion in other countries.

So my question is: since this is a christian forum and you tout about religious freedom why not first provide such freedom to others to show how it should be done.

Be the change that you want to see!

This is hypocrisy at its best. But I digress.

satay

hey, Satay,

you don't have to "buy" anything.

it is, however, demonstrably the situation at this forum.

metta,

~v

 

[Latreia]

proof please

Arya Samaj ("society of honourable ones")
http://philtar.ucsm.ac.uk/encyclopedia/hindu/ascetic/arya.html

The influence of the Arya Samaj was mainly in north-west India. It followed Dayananda in
being a militant missionary movement, which attacked image-worship, the multiplicity of gods
and goddesses, the idea of avatars, ancestor worship, the doctrine of maya, the caste
system, child marriage, the inferior status of women, fatalism, belief in the Puranas and
Tantras, and meaningless rituals. It was important also in the nationalist movement.
Today the Arya Samaj is still an important religio-political force in urban and rural areas
mainly in northern India. It is active in the educational and social fields. Politically it
is associated all over India with militant Hindu fundamentalism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arya_Samaj
Arya Samaj (Aryan Society or Society of Nobles) is a Hindu reform movement in India that was
founded by Swami Dayananda in 1875. He was a sannyasin (renouncer) who believed in the
infallible authority of the Vedas. Dayananda advocated the doctrine of karma and
reincarnation, and emphasised the ideals of brahmacharya (chastity) and sanyasa
(renunciation).
Dayananda claimed to be rejecting all non-Vedic beliefs altogether. Hence the Arya Samaj
unequivocally condemned idolatry, animal sacrifices, ancestor worship, pilgrimages,
priestcraft, offerings made in temples, the caste system, untouchability and child
marriages, on the grounds that all these lacked Vedic sanction. It aimed to be a universal
church based on the authority of the Vedas. Dayananda stated that he wanted ‘to make the
whole world Aryan’. That is, he wanted to develop a missionary Hinduism based on the
universality of the Vedas.
To this end the Arya Samaj set up schools and missionary organisations, extending its
activities outside India. It now has branches around the world. It has a disproportional
amount of adherents among people of Indian ancestry in Suriname and the Netherlands, in
comparison with India.

 

[Latreia]

arya samaj

Sri Sri Ravi Shankar http://whiterabbitcult.com/Sanctuary/SriSriRaviShankar.html

In 1982, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar established the Art of Living Foundation, as an educational

organization designed to assist all levels of society in reaching their full human

potential. His educational programs offer innovative tools for managing stress, resolving

conflict, improving health and living life with more joy and enthusiasm. The foundation is a

Non-Governmental Organization (NGO) in special consultative status with the United Nations.

In 1992 he launched the Prison SMART Foundation (Stress Management and Rehabilitative

Training) to address the needs of individuals and professionals impacted by the criminal

justice system. Programs are offered to prison inmates, at-risk youth, victims of crime and

criminal justice professionals. Today, training programs in the United States and India are

receiving national recognition as an effective solution for breaking the cycles of violence

in society.

In 1995 Sri Sri Ravi Shankar was a speaker during the 50th Anniversary celebration of the

United Nations. Since that time, his organization continues to work with a variety of NGOs

[Non-Govermental Organizations] and UN groups to raise awareness of the need to focus on

human values as a fundamental step in realizing universal human rights.

Many television and radio programs have been produced on Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's principles

of effective living and peaceful coexistence. Of particular note is the 1996 Swedish public

television special that featured Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and the Dalai Lama.

He will launch a world Human Values campaign in 1999 and his Association continues to work

with other organizations around the world who are dedicated to similar goals for humanity.

 

[Latreia]

Anna Hazare SOCIAL AND POLITICAL ACTIVIST

http://www.southasianmedia.net/profile/india/india_leadpersonalities_social.cfm


Mata Amritananamayi "Mata Amritanandamayi"
http://www.singingmountain.org/y2005mar12.html

http://www.singingmountain.org/ammachi-divine-mother-criticism.html


Mata Amritananamayi "Mata Amritanandamayi"
http://www.singingmountain.org/y2005mar12.html
http://www.singingmountain.org/ammachi-divine-mother-criticism.html


GIVE WORLD INC.

http://www.giveworld.org/ngo.htm
Our Partner Organizations:
We work with the following NGOs:
Ahmedabad Women's Action Group, Gujarat
Amar Seva Sangam, Tamil Nadu
AMBA, Gujarat
ANANYA, Karnataka
Apnalaya, Maharashtra
Ashadeep, Assam
ASSIST, Andhra Pradesh
Association of People with Disability , Karnataka
Association for Rural Development and Action Research, Andhra Pradesh
Association for Sustainable Community Development (ASSCOD), Tamil Nadu
ATMA NIRBHAR – EK CHALLENGE, Assam
Bani Mandir, West Bengal
Banyan, Tamil Nadu
Bharath Charitable Cancer Hospital & Institute (Trust), Karnataka
Blind People's Association, Gujarat
Centre for Environment and Development, Andhra Pradesh
Centre for Research in Mental Retardation, Maharashtra
Child Aid Foundation, Andhra Pradesh
Child Survival India, Delhi
Children Toy Foundation, Maharashtra
Deepalaya, Delhi
Divya Chaya Trust, West Bengal
Drashti Netralaya, Gujarat
Economic Rural Development Society , West Bengal
Gramin Evam Nagar Vikas Parishad, Bihar
Gramin Vikas Vigyan Samiti, Rajasthan
HELP, Andhra Pradesh
Hindu Mission Hospital, Tamil Nadu
IBTADA, Rajasthan
Indian Council for Mental Health , Maharashtra
International Human Development & Upliftment Academy, Karnataka
Jeevan Blood Bank And Research Center, Tamil Nadu
Kaingkarya Social Welfare Organisation, Tamil Nadu
Kutumba, Karnataka
MELJOL, Maharashtra
Mitra Jyothi, Karnataka
Mother Saradadevi Social Service Society, Tamil Nadu
National Association for the Blind, India, Maharashtra
National Society for Equal Opportunities for the Handicapped, Maharashtra
NAZ Foundation (India) Trust, Delhi
PARIPURNATA HALF-WAY-HOME, West Bengal
PREED, Tamil Nadu
Relief Organisation For Handicapped, Andhra Pradesh
Saath (Initiatives for Equity in Development), Gujarat
SAHARA, Andhra Pradesh
Sahyog Sansthan, Rajasthan
Sai Kripa, Uttar Pradesh
SALAAM BAALAK TRUST, Delhi
Sampark, Karnataka
SAMUHA, Karnataka
Sankara Nethralaya, Tamil Nadu
Sense International (India), Rajasthan
Seva Mandir, Rajasthan
Shikshan Ane Samaj Kalyan Kendra, Gujarat
Social Action for Manpower Creation, Maharashtra
TANKER Foundation, Tamil Nadu
Valluvar Gurukulam, Tamil Nadu
Vidya Bhawan Society, Rajasthan
Vikahar Paribar Bikash Kendra, West Bengal

 

[arunma]

Namaste arunma,

thank you for the post.



perhaps you are not as conversant with the theory of Karma as you would have us believe?

karma, per se, does not depend on reincarnation or rebirth to function. it is operative without reference to any additinal arising, one way or the other.

it is, in reality, the theory that St. Paul explained to you... "you reap what you sow."

naturally, your reincarnation is different than what we understand in the various Eastern traditions, your reincarnation happens only once, and you go to heaven or hell or limbo, depending on what Christian school you may adhere to.

nevertheless... i'll put the question to you as well.

do you believe that "what you reap, so shall you sow."? if so, why? if not, why not?

metta,

~v

Well, if you put it that way (omitting any possibility of reincarnation), then yes I do believe in the principle that you call karma, since the apostles teach that doctrine.

I have seen a post of yours in another topic saying you wouldn't want Christian children even let near Hinduism. Is this freedom of religion?

I hope you see a difference between raising children, and allowing grown men to exercise their own freedom of thought. Freedom of religion doesn't require that people give raise their children by exposing them to all religions equally. It does require that Hindus not take legal action against the peaceful spread of the Christian religion.

Do you try to protect Christians from Hinduism?

No, I don't. Have you seen me asking Latreia to cease her interest in Hinduism?

Also, about your opinion concerning Hindus being thankless, it is nothing more than an opinion,

If you take a look at the Hindu posts on this forum, you'll find that they are highly negative to Christian missionaries. This is due to the fact that in addition to contributing to the relief of the poor, missionaries actively seek converts. It seems to me that Hindus oppose the presentation of any alternative religion to current Hindus. If you disagree, then you ought to explain why.

just like the KKK's opinion that blacks are inferior.

Or like the Republicans' belief that Democratic values are inferior.

You deliberately made a comparison to racist groups in order to mischaracterize the Christian position as bigoted.

 

[Latreia]

Contemporary Hindutva Anti-Christian Pogroms and their Nineteenth Century Roots c 1999 by

Geoffrey Cook
International Institute of India Studies
"a history of religious controversy=85gave the Christian religion a reputation for

aggressiveness, intolerance and even unIndianess which its adherents have had a difficult

time changing."
Hindutva's rhetoric and most recently overt physical attacks against Christians are

partially based on "fundamentalist" Hindu projections on Christian missionary activity

which, in turn, have their roots in Christian evangelical patterns of the nineteenth century

and their interaction with the Sanatana Dharma."


"To be or not to Be - The Conversion Debate 4 Dec 1999 by P.R.Ram

Today, despite the claims to the contrary some followers of Hinduism are indulging in

proselytisation. Christianity and Islam are not the only religions today, which proselytise.

Hindutva, which is Brahminical Hinduism based Nationalism has used the conversions to

strengthen Hinduisms' flanks by co-opting the low castes and Adivasis earlier through

shuddhi and now through Gharvapasi. It is to its 'credit' that its propaganda machinery can

'successfully' project these proselitisations as this that and the other phenomenon

simultaneously claiming that Hinduism is implicitly superior to other faiths as it does not

indulge in conversions. "
It also claims that conversions done by others spread discord in the communities and that

conversions show disrespect to others' religions. Bravo! Gobbels has been beaten at his own

game. What is remarkable is not that conversions as a marginal phenomenon have been a part

of Indian reality from ages but the fact that political phenomenon called Sangh Parivar can

make an issue out of it even today. What is remarkable is that this political multiheaded

hydra (Sangh Parivar) can make the 'forced conversions' an issue to build its political base

even at a time when the actual percentage of those being targeted is on the decline.

www.comebackkid.com/frenzy.html