15 Questions for all

[vajradhara]

Metta,
satay
ps: I am curious...what was the sanskrit term that got your thread deleted...I hope it wasn't Maleccha.

hehe...

you won't believe me if a tell you.

but... i'll tell you anyway.

the Sanskrit term was "Sunyata".

of course... there is no way that a being can actually get a functional understanding of the Buddha Dharma without understanding this term. as such, i explained the various nuanced uses of the term and how it was used particularly in the Buddha Dharma.

in fairness, i was a bit... let us say... thorough... in my explanation. several paragraphs worth, iirc, which was perhaps the real problem.

nevertheless, i got a nice little PM telling me that my thread had been closed due to "promotion of another religion". i protested, of course. well... at the time, i wasn't able to actually protest since i didn't have access to the "protest a thread closing" section of the forum.

the moderators at the time either couldn't do anything about that, did not see my responses, or chose to ignore them. any one of the three could have happened.

as it stands, another thread was closed and i was able to protest that closing and, fortunately, the reasonableness of my position was established and the thread was re-opened. it, to, was dealing with a specific request to explain the meaning of a term.

metta,

~v

 

[NiamhDhabolt]

Beautiful reply Niamh , i agree almost completely.

Thanks for bringing this thread again on track....

Thanks rahul. I didnt even know it got off track as I havent read any of the posts yet... I just saw the topic and wanted to reply. I'll read all the other replies over time (this is a LONG thread afterall and I dont think I could read everything in the amount of time that I have at the moment,lol).

 

[ServantofTheOne]

2- Why is there poverty and suffering in the world?

cause and effect. greed, hoarding of wealth and resources, and oppression leads to poverty. this is an systemic economic/social/political problem that will continue until its corrected at its foundation. you probably are asking why God allows this poverty and suffering.

If you attribute this negative to God, you have to also attribute all the positives that exist in this world. look at all the beauty, health, prosperity, life, birth, wisdom, intelligence, growth and progress that exists in the world.. surely you don't take the air you breathe for granted, nor the sweet water you drink. All these good things are from God. many people curse God because of temporary misfortune or other things that happen in the world that they deem to be unfair. they quickly forget all the blessings that are so many that it can't be countable. the worst are those atheists who don't even believe in God, yet they say "what kind of God allows such suffering" blah blah.. if they attribute the suffering to God, then they must also accept that all the good that exists are attributable to God.

Who are we as created being to judge the wisdom and justice of the Creator?
This created universe is bound by the physical laws of cause and effect, all matter is given certain fixed properties that cannot be altered by Humans. If you attempt to punch through a steel column, you will certainly suffer much pain. Can you blame God for this pain?

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste NFF,

thank you for the post.

In my discussion with Rahul, he seemed to infer that this 'karma' exists on the physical level as well (if you do something immoral, you may suffer physical consequence in another life.) Would Buddha Dharma agree with this?

we need to be a bit careful here... as this area can be a bit tricky to navigate properly.

when Buddhists discuss the effects of karma in either the psychological or physical aspect, we are speaking of the relative aspect of reality, where such things are Karma and beings and all of that sort of thing have meaning.

for the majority of beings, this is their view of reality, the relative level and, as such, the discussion is meant as it is given.

in the Buddhist view, there is no underlying Atman, or self or soul, depending on your preference, thus, karmic consequences effect the constituting of the Skandhas, the Aggregates of form, mental funtion, sense and so forth.

as Buddhagosha explained:

there is no doer who does
and no reaper that reaps.
constituant parts roll on unowned.
this, alone, is right discernment.

thus, in the Buddhist discussion, from an Absolute level, there is no being, no self, no soul and no life which can be effected by karma. in a relative sense, the Skandhas are effected as they arising predicated on the previous moments karmic content and this is what manifests when a being arises in this world system.

so... to make this long answer shorter... it depends

if we are talking about the relative reality, that which you and i are experiencing right now, karma does effect the physical. however, it does this is a special sort of way. as there is no being, no soul, no spirit and so forth, it cannot be that this non-entity is impacted, it is, therefore, the "matrix" if you will, of physical, mental and emotional form, which is effected by karma.

in the Absolute such concepts cannot be applied.

of course, this is simply reflective of my understanding of the matter under discussion.

metta,

~v

 

[satay]

hehe...

you won't believe me if a tell you.

but... i'll tell you anyway.

the Sanskrit term was "Sunyata".

of course... there is no way that a being can actually get a functional understanding of the Buddha Dharma without understanding this term. as such, i explained the various nuanced uses of the term and how it was used particularly in the Buddha Dharma.

in fairness, i was a bit... let us say... thorough... in my explanation. several paragraphs worth, iirc, which was perhaps the real problem.

nevertheless, i got a nice little PM telling me that my thread had been closed due to "promotion of another religion". i protested, of course. well... at the time, i wasn't able to actually protest since i didn't have access to the "protest a thread closing" section of the forum.

the moderators at the time either couldn't do anything about that, did not see my responses, or chose to ignore them. any one of the three could have happened.

as it stands, another thread was closed and i was able to protest that closing and, fortunately, the reasonableness of my position was established and the thread was re-opened. it, to, was dealing with a specific request to explain the meaning of a term.

metta,

~v

ah...yes..."shunya ta"...you know how Buddha would have explained this...


satay

 

[Latreia]

Latreia

I researched all the Hindu social organizations that sanaa listed.
They are no different in their missions and intentions, and also their efforts to convert,raise money, expand to all parts of the world, and make use of every medium, including the
internet, to promote proselytize actively and purposely.

proof please[/size=3]

[/b]

arya samaj is a hindu reform school that seeks to reform HINDUS and their approach towards their own religion . they are quite moderate and having lived in india my whole life i have never seem them being associated with "militant hindu fundamentalism" . can u please tell me a little more about ur site . on their official site i failed to see any mission statement seeking conversions of non hindus to hinduism



um those 2 statements are contradictory . do u have a direct source for that quote or any incident where arya samaj went around recruiting non hindus ?

First of all, I googled each individual name you gave, just the name only. I then read several of the results. My intent was not to get only negative reports, but a variety that illustrated my original statement --as I quote again above---not what you are saying in your response statements.

According to your responses, the information in my researched links do not make sense.You are not comprehending anything I have posted, which I can understand...the ones who are on my case right now seem more intent on neutralizing my impact on the scenario they wish to perform here.

One gets the impression of distinct and deliberate manipulation of others' thoughts and how they may be allowed to post their opinions. That is the overall impression of this thread.

I suggest from now on that you be specific as you start each new thread and in the OP, give notice that Latreia is invited NOT to post on your private threads. But, reflecting on this, I can see that I will not ever post to any of you on any thread you may start.

I DON'T NEED THIS. BUT YOU DO.

 

[looking4wisdom]

You can't trap Latreia...Nothing gets by this lady.

I am humbled by her effort

 

[indianx]

Truthfully, I sense a lot of cynicalness. True, there are some people who are manipulative, but you can't always be thinking that someone's out there about to pull something over your eyes.

 

[Mumbles]

1- What happens to you after you die?
2- Why is there poverty and suffering in the world?
3- Describe God.
4- How does one obtain true peace?
5- When is war justifiable?
6- Describe Heaven; and how do you get there.
7- What is the greatest quality humans possess?
8- Why are so many people depressed?
9- What is the meaning of life?
10- How would God want us to respond to aggression and terrorism?
11- What are we all so afraid of?
12- What is your one wish for the world?
13- What is our greatest distraction?
14- "We are all one." What are your thoughts on this?
15- "One way mentality of some religions". Don't you think it is Illogical w.r.t to God ? If God is infinite, do you think one book with some verses can disclose his divine plan ?

1: depends on the wants of the people around you, what was in your will, and so forth. As for your consciousness, that's gone.

2: That's far too big of a topic to discuss on an internet forum post in any satisfactory way. A doctoral thesis would scratch the surface.

3: I've never met a god before, and having received no useful instruction on how to do so, or any reason to think that they are anything other than human constructs, have moved on to more interesting matters. Feel free to ask those who say they have been in contact with gods, but I doubt you'll get anything consistent.

4: What, exactly, would you regard as "true peace"?

5: If a war is in defense of the country's citizens, then it is justified. Countries who wish to defend non-citizens from invasion, slaughter, etc. are also justified, assuming that they have the resources to do so, while still being able to defend citizens from a second military attack. That's about it.

6: Much like gods, I've got no data here, no way to get data, and no reason to think that such a place exists.

7: Intillect? Emotion? I really wouldn't know how to rank them.

8: Psychiatrists can debate this. The current popular theory, as I recall, is that some people are predisposed (through genetics, brain function, etc.) to depression in response to environmental triggers.

9: That question doesn't mean anything.

10: Again, I haven't met any gods, so I wouldn't know.

11: I'm terrified of needles. I don't know about other people.

12: Peace? And end to poverty/suffering/etc? Too many to choose from.

13: What, exactly, are we being distracted from? And for that matter, what makes you think that we all have the same goal in the first place?

14: It's clear to me that we are not all one. Perhaps we would be better off if we were, but althuogh people do band together into various groups, it's also obvious that these groups do not cooperate, and people often do not cooperate within the group.

15: well, again...

 

[little_lily613]

1- What happens to you after you die?

This answer is very extensive, so I will post a link for this:

http://www.beingjewish.com/soul/soul.html

http://www.beingjewish.com/soul/future.html

http://www.beingjewish.com/soul/afterlife.html

2- Why is there poverty and suffering in the world?

For several reasons. One reason is that we live in an imperfect world. Because of this, there is suffering. Some suffering is also a test of faith from G~d. Then, there are also many people who suffer and need help from others and are not receiving that help. A key idea in Judaism is "Tikkun Olam" which means "repair the World." It is OUR responsibility to make this world a good place to live as we await for the Moshiach/Messiah. Many people do not give their share of help. Jewish law requires Jews to put away a percentage of all income to tzedekah. Tzedekah is akin to charity, but different as well. It is not about giving because you feel generous. We are required to give even if we do not necessarily want to. Tzedekah is about justice--we all deserve to live good lives, and because some are better off than others, we do justice-perform tzedekah-by giving to others to ensure that they have means to live by also. Only when the Messianic Age is here will suffering end. It was something brought about at the end of the Garden of Eden, and will be in our midst until the Moshiach begins his work.

3- Describe God.

G~d is a complete indivisible unity who is outside of time. He always existed, and will always exist. He is incorporeal, and omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient. He knows all and sees all. He is the Creator of the Universe and everything within it. He is all-loving and merciful.

4- How does one obtain true peace?

I don't know if complete permanent peace is possible before the Messianic Age and/or the afterlife. World peace is not, that is for sure. Inner peace can come about from sincere prayer and worship and finding joy in life, in G~d, and in Torah.

5- When is war justifiable?

War for the sake of war is never justifiable. War is not okay when those involved only seek out power, or possessions. Discriminatory war just because you dislike someone is forbidden. War is only justified (and even then, is not praised nor is victory rejoiced) when it is for self-defense, and the preservation of Torah and continuation of Torah (ie. toward those are actively seeking to destroy Torah.)

6- Describe Heaven; and how do you get there.

See one of the above links regarding the World to Come. Judaism teaches that the righteous of all nations have a share in the World to Come. Righteous Jews are Jews who follow the mitzvos from the Torah; righteous Gentiles are Gentiles who follow the 7 Laws of Noach. No human can decide who specifically will have a share in the World to Come though. It is not our job to judge the fate of others' souls.

7- What is the greatest quality humans possess?

What G~d has given humans that has made us in His image--the fullness of our soul. Rashi (a great Jewish rabbi/scholar from Mideivil days) tells us that we are different from the rest of G~d's creations and we are "made in His image" because we have the ability to understand and discern things. Rambam (another rabbi/scholar) tells us that we have our intellect, and the ability to perceive things without only using our physical senses. So our greatest quality is that we are made in His image. Spirituality and love are two of the most beautiful things humans have.

8- Why are so many people depressed?

As stated above, there is suffering in this World because we live in an imperfect world. Depression can often times be a test from G~d. Only G~d knows the real indepth reasons why people sometimes suffer from depression.

9- What is the meaning of life?

According to Judaism, G~d created the universe because He wanted to do good and wanted to share this good with those would appreciate it. He created the mitzvos because of this--because He wanted us to appreciate the goodness He offers, rather than just expecting it to come to us on a silver platter (in which case, we would not TRULY *appreciate* it). The meaning of life for Jews is to follow the Torah, and live their lives for HaShem, while performing Tikkun Olam. Gentiles, also have Laws they must follow (the 7 Laws of Noach). There purpose is also to follow G~d down the path He created for them.

10- How would God want us to respond to aggression and terrorism?

Torah tells us that we are obligated to defend ourselves. It also teaches that each life is sacred. I think G~d wants us to be loving toward others and solve our problems peacefully. But when we are being attacked and killed, we are required to actively defend ourselves.

11- What are we all so afraid of?

I don't know what *you* are all afraid of. My fears are death (not the afterlife, but actually dying, and the death of my loved ones), and being alone/never marrying. Oh and spiders. We mustn't forget spiders *shudder*.

12- What is your one wish for the world?

That the World would believe in G~d's Truth and not stray from it. That Jews will all follow Torah in its fullest, and that Gentiles will follow their path to G~d through the 7 Laws of Noach. (I will also point out that an adherence to G~d's Torah by all human beings, whether one follows the Jewish or the Gentile path, would put an end to war, terrorism, crime, immorality, etc).

13- What is our greatest distraction?

Power, greed, hatred, selfishness......

14- "We are all one." What are your thoughts on this?

I don't believe we are all one. I believe we are all connected in that we are all sons and daughters of G~d. We are all one big family. Yet we are all also individuals. I am not you, and you are not me.

15- "One way mentality of some religions". Don't you think it is Illogical w.r.t to God ? If God is infinite, do you think one book with some verses can disclose his divine plan ?

Yes, I do believe G~d only has one Torah. I do believe there is only one Truth, and no, I do not think it illogical. I believe many are sincere in what they believe though, and many people strive to be righteous. Therefore, G~d judges by the goodness of a person, and the life they have led.

Shalom and G~d bless!
~Lily~

 

[sanaa]

First of all, I googled each individual name you gave, just the name only. I then read several of the results. My intent was not to get only negative reports, but a variety that illustrated my original statement --as I quote again above---not what you are saying in your response statements.

your original statement about these organizations was false and misleading as i have illustrated in my response and links provided . i have refuted your post about RSS totally , and you could find nothing against Anna Hazare and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar and had to do a long cut and paste job which did not even back your statements but in fact talked about their acheivements in the social , charitable and humanitarian departments . As for Mata Amritanandamayi, she is an internationaly respected figure who has addressed the Parliament of World’s Religions in Chicago, the United Nations in New York and the Global Peace Initiative of Women religious and Spiritual Leaders, conducted at the UN in Geneva, where she gave speeches on the present day social problems and their solutions. It was there that Amma was awarded with the 2002 Gandhi-King award for Non-violence. so ur site that paints her as a "cult" is in bad taste . the only ambiguity could be about arya samaj but they themselves are not aware that they are missionaries , their outreach was for hindus and they do a lot of charitable and social work , but if you find anyone who was stopped by them on the way to work with an intent to recruit people to hinduism please lemme know

According to your responses, the information in my researched links do not make sense.

some of the links werent working and i have refuted the contents and information posted in the others .see above

You are not comprehending anything I have posted, which I can understand...the ones who are on my case right now seem more intent on neutralizing my impact on the scenario they wish to perform here.

please dont flatter yourself .
if we were really evangelizing we would have shown interest in converting you totally to hinduism when u first showed up here and said u were thinkin of converting

One gets the impression of distinct and deliberate manipulation of others' thoughts and how they may be allowed to post their opinions. That is the overall impression of this thread.

I suggest from now on that you be specific as you start each new thread and in the OP, give notice that Latreia is invited NOT to post on your private threads. But, reflecting on this, I can see that I will not ever post to any of you on any thread you may start.

your welcome to post in any thread started by any hindu but if u dont want to , its ur wish

I DON'T NEED THIS. BUT YOU DO.

please get off ur moral highground .

 

[Latreia]

The word is "your" not "ur"

 

[sanaa]

i know . ur is the short form of your ( on the internet) when u dont feel like typing the whole thing . the meaning conveyed is the same

 

[angelocrator]

1- What happens to you after you die?
I don't know.
2- Why is there poverty and suffering in the world?
Because people are selfish
3- Describe God.
Which one?
4- How does one obtain true peace?
By leading a peacful life.
5- When is war justifiable?
In self defense.
6- Describe Heaven; and how do you get there.
Define heaven.
7- What is the greatest quality humans possess?
Compassion.
8- Why are so many people depressed?
Because they do stuff they don't like to do instead of doing stuff they like to do but are afraid to change the circumstances they live in.
9- What is the meaning of life?
The meaning of you life is whatever you think it is.
10- How would God want us to respond to aggression and terrorism?
Which god?
11- What are we all so afraid of?
I'm not afraid, why are you?
12- What is your one wish for the world?
That humans die out better sooner than later.
13- What is our greatest distraction?
Material possessions.
14- "We are all one." What are your thoughts on this?
We are all individuals.
15- "One way mentality of some religions". Don't you think it is Illogical w.r.t to God ? If God is infinite, do you think one book with some verses can disclose his divine plan ?
Which god?

 

[arunma]

please dont flatter yourself .
if we were really evangelizing we would have shown interest in converting you totally to hinduism when u first showed up here and said u were thinkin of converting.

I'm not so sure about that. Hindus generally wish to convert Christians to their own belief system, without actually changing the label of "Christian." But ultimately, the Hindu proselytizer creates a Christian who sacrifices to Vishnu, engages in other idolatrous Hindu rituals, and believes that "all religions are a subset of Hinduism." The result is to completely destroy the meaning of being a Christian. So I do not believe you've adequately defended Hindus against the proselytizing charge.

 

[sanaa]

I'm not so sure about that. Hindus generally wish to convert Christians to their own belief system, without actually changing the label of "Christian." But ultimately, the Hindu proselytizer creates a Christian who sacrifices to Vishnu, engages in other idolatrous Hindu rituals, and believes that "all religions are a subset of Hinduism." The result is to completely destroy the meaning of being a Christian. So I do not believe you've adequately defended Hindus against the proselytizing charge.

that is ur opinion , but i disagree . in the Gita Krishna says its ok if u call him by another name or worship him in another form so we have zero interest in telling anyone to "sacrifice to Vishnu" . nor have we encouraged anyone to convert , even people who have shown interest in converting . if a person of another faith( not just christianity) appreciates hinduism and wants to adopt some of its practises please dont blame us .

 

[selwyn]

that is ur opinion , but i disagree . in the Gita Krishna says its ok if u call him by another name or worship him in another form so we have zero interest in telling anyone to "sacrifice to Vishnu" . nor have we encouraged anyone to convert , even people who have shown interest in converting . if a person of another faith( not just christianity) appreciates hinduism and wants to adopt some of its practises please dont blame us .

Then how do you want to explain the following information as posted by someone in mass conversion to hinduism thread?

May1: 500 Christians converted to Hinduism
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/...00900030010.htm

April25: 100 Christians converted to Hinduism
http://www.bosnewslife.com/index.ph...pAI2URvHFkDQ%3D

April 17: 45 Christians converted to Hinduism
http://www.indianexpress.com/full_s...ontent_id=68645

April4: 97 Christians converted to Hinduism
http://www.newkerala.com/news-daily...llnews&id=93836.

Ofcourse I know that you will point out that most of these are reconversions and not conversions. Even if that is the case, does your gita advocate re-conversions? And you all claim here that Gita is okay with people following other religions.

Ram in one of his posts said the following while attempting to interpret Gita:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=16972378&postcount=113

Sri Ramanuja faced tremendous opposition when he founded his school and with his new interpretation to Gita. He converted many Jains, Buddhists, even advaitins, atheists into his fold. All people who know God and have seen God or have unshakeable faith in God can always violate 18.67..

If gita allows hindus to violate its own scripture at some point or the other, what is the whole point in you guys claiming here that gita does not encourage conversion and that it is not an evangelizing text at all. Added to that, from just reading at the interpretation given by Ram atleast over there it sounds that this advice is given mainly to hindus who are kind of "weak in their faith" so that their faith won't be shattered and therefore may not apply to those who are pretty strong in their faith and that they can go around converting people. and And what would you say for what Ramanuja did? Is it conversion or re-conversion or violation of gita or what not.

Are all these hindus who are all going around converting and reconverting people of other religions violating gita? Ram also said that there is no requirement in the gita that people should change names, religion or this or that. But most of these articles indicate that atleast in the "re-conversion" there was a specific conversion ceremony involved in this process where most people if not all changed their names and religions. What do these all mean?

And sorry about the off-topic nature of these questions. If needed we can put this in a new topic for discussion. I just put it here because these questions are relevant to what hindus are claiming here.

 

[sanaa]

Ofcourse I know that you will point out that most of these are reconversions and not conversions. Even if that is the case, does your gita advocate re-conversions? And you all claim here that Gita is okay with people following other religions.

not "most" , all are reconversions . and most of these conversions supposedly did not happen for voluntary spiritual reasons but for material benefits , even if they happened for religious reasons these people were not happy in their new faith and wanted to come back . nowhere does the Gita say u cannot convert if ur not happy with ur current faith . this is a different issue from whats being discussed . the topic was do the hindu charitable organisations evangelise
as for what Ram said ill just let him explain

 

[Ram]

Ram in one of his posts said the following while attempting to interpret Gita:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=16972378&postcount=113

There is no general conversion in Hinduism, because every man is a Sanatana Dharmi by definition. Each person chooses or is born in an environment that is in accordance with his karma and spiritual status.

There are hundreds of sects within Hinduism. And it is common for people to move between these sects. Most of Ramanuja's conversions were inter-Hindu conversions to the religion founded by him.


And conversion within Hinduism is not the door-door conversion strategies of Christians missionaries. Typically, conversions are accomplished as follows:

Take Sri Ramanuja:

He wrote commentaries for the brahma sutra , the Bhagavad Gita and a number of upanishads in a work called the vedartasangraha. And based on his new radical interpretations, he engaged the scholars of other schools and defeated every one of them - Advaita, Buddhism, Jainism, Charvaka etc.(total of 15 schools)

What is the outcome of such a victory in debate? The looser of the debate sometimes might adopt Ramanuja as his guru that automatically converts all his disciplines to the fold of Sri Ramanuja. Even otherwise, debates were the defacto standard in prolystyesing within Hinduism.

If you are capable of defeating a rival school, a few or many followers of the school will adopt the religion of the victor. This is the process by which Sri Ramanuja moved many people into his fold. This is an accepted practice in Hinduism. People are free to choose their religion, no compulsion at all. Do you have to convert if you loose the debate - NO! But once you loose a debate, your followers will desert you automatically! An illiterate or a person performing miracles cannot start a new sect in olden days of Hinduism. You have to justify your skill by writing commenatraies for the scripture and defeating your rivals in accepted forms of debate.

Can a Christian become a disciple of Ramanuja school. Impossible, he will be rejected outright. Only a Hindu by birth can become a disciple of Sri Ramanuja and can become a follower of his school by undergoing a specific ritual.

Please dont compare the door-door campaigning methods of christian missionaries with the highly dignified way of logical victories as means of proslysteising of Sri Ramanuja. We Vaishnavites never preach to people who dont want to hear the philosophy. No one will chase you down ever for "saving" you from hell.

Please dont compare Sri Ramanuja with the ISKCON ites or Arya Samaj.

Regards,
Ram

 

[satay]

There is no general conversion in Hinduism, because every man is a Sanatana Dharmi by definition. Each person chooses or is born in an environment that is in accordance with his karma and spiritual status.

There are hundreds of sects within Hinduism. And it is common for people to move between these sects. Most of Ramanuja's conversions were inter-Hindu conversions to the religion founded by him.


And conversion within Hinduism is not the door-door conversion strategies of Christians missionaries. Typically, conversions are accomplished as follows:

Take Sri Ramanuja:

He wrote commentaries for the brahma sutra , the Bhagavad Gita and a number of upanishads in a work called the vedartasangraha. And based on his new radical interpretations, he engaged the scholars of other schools and defeated every one of them - Advaita, Buddhism, Jainism, Charvaka etc.(total of 15 schools)

What is the outcome of such a victory in debate? The looser of the debate sometimes might adopt Ramanuja as his guru that automatically converts all his disciplines to the fold of Sri Ramanuja. Even otherwise, debates were the defacto standard in prolystyesing within Hinduism.

If you are capable of defeating a rival school, a few or many followers of the school will adopt the religion of the victor. This is the process by which Sri Ramanuja moved many people into his fold. This is an accepted practice in Hinduism. People are free to choose their religion, no compulsion at all. Do you have to convert if you loose the debate - NO! But once you loose a debate, your followers will desert you automatically! An illiterate or a person performing miracles cannot start a new sect in olden days of Hinduism. You have to justify your skill by writing commenatraies for the scripture and defeating your rivals in accepted forms of debate.

Can a Christian become a disciple of Ramanuja school. Impossible, he will be rejected outright. Only a Hindu by birth can become a disciple of Sri Ramanuja and can become a follower of his school by undergoing a specific ritual.

Please dont compare the door-door campaigning methods of christian missionaries with the highly dignified way of logical victories as means of proslysteising of Sri Ramanuja. We Vaishnavites never preach to people who dont want to hear the philosophy. No one will chase you down ever for "saving" you from hell.

Please dont compare Sri Ramanuja with the ISKCON ites or Arya Samaj.

Regards,
Ram

Selling "jesus" right beside the hot dog stand seems to be the best feature.



satay