10 lost tribes???

[ebedmelech]

Yes amen...David is raised ...and lives...and Jesus returns with the resurrect saints ..to set up the kingdom of Israel

Jesus fulfilled the law obtaining all the promises of the law and prophets...and will complete them

I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

The point I'm making is God saying "David my Servant" IS Jesus.

Is that what you mean?

 

[Bro in Christ]

Nope.... David is resurrected after the Great Trib and will rule as a princes

 

[dfw69]

I'm not sure I get what you're saying.

The point I'm making is God saying "David my Servant" IS Jesus.

Is that what you mean?

No David is David ...not Jesus..had it said son of David ...then yes I would have to agree...but I believe God is referring to David

 

[Rev20]

If you believe the saints are ever resurrected...you can be sure David is among them...because God said in the old testament he would be....God does not say things in vain

Others are mentioned, such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the prophets. But David, by name, is not mentioned, except in reference to his descendant, Jesus Christ. Yet, futurists interpret Ezekiel in a way that places David as both the future king and the only shepherd. Something that important should be mentioned in the New Testament.

I believe the futurist interpretation of Ezekiel 37 is not defendable.

 

[Rev20]

No David is David ...not Jesus..had it said son of David ...then yes I would have to agree...but I believe God is referring to David

God never promised David that he would personally reign in the future. He only promised that one of David's seed would rule over the seed of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That ruling seed is Jesus Christ.

The literalist interpretation falls apart in Ezekiel.

 

[Bro in Christ]

why is he call a prince ... in the three passages?

 

[dfw69]

Others are mentioned, such as Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and the prophets. But David, by name, is not mentioned, except in reference to his descendant, Jesus Christ. Yet, futurists interpret Ezekiel in a way that places David as both the future king and the only shepherd. Something that important should be mentioned in the New Testament.

I believe the futurist interpretation of Ezekiel 37 is not defendable.

Did not God promises we will be kings and priest ?...is not David's son the King of kings and Lord of lords?

Did not David call him Lord ?...the Lord said to my Lord?

David will be king ..Jesus is Lord over his kingdom ...Jesus is the king of kings

 

[ebedmelech]

No David is David ...not Jesus..had it said son of David ...then yes I would have to agree...but I believe God is referring to David

All God is doing here is what is commonly done in Jewish culture...the son called by the father's name. God does that for their benefit, to help them understand the prophecy.

This is why Jesus is called the "son of David" in Matthew! This prophecy to be speaking of Christ as "My servant David"...they do this in light of prophecies of Christ;

Isaiah 9:6, 7:
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

Peter clearly tells you it's not David. in Acts 2:34.

 

[KrAZeD]

The problem is that most do not understand the differences between Laws Ordinances and Statutes

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Works has nothing to do with the law. The law is the teacher, or school master to show you how to do good works, while your works is a display that reveals your obedience to that law. Your works shows your discipline from God's Word being carried out in your life. While the attitude you have while doing your works shows your love for Christ in your life.

Many teach that when Christ came and went to the cross at Calvary, and shed His blood for us that the law was done away with. Jesus Christ Himself declares here that this is just not so. Jesus declared here that; "think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets", Christ's purpose for coming to earth, was to complete every last prophecy that came out of the Prophets of old. That included the law, for the law was given for guidance for man, and it is as current today as it was three thousand years ago.

God knew that man could not keep the law, and that is why He made the provision for man. When man broke the law, and the barrier came between God and man, and certain rites, ordinances, and rituals [sacrifices] were established by God to bring man back to God. These sacrifices were of the blood of sheep, goats and doves, and were a covering, [called atonement] that satisfied the Lord God for one year.
The only permanent sacrifice that could atone for mans sin, was a spotless sacrifice, sinless, and the only one that could do that was God's only Son, Jesus Christ. This was known long before the setting forth of the planets. God's plan was even written in the constellations of the heavens. The moment our Lord Jesus Christ died on that cross, the veil in the Temple was parted.

Matthew 27:50, 51; "Jesus, when He had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. [50] And, behold, the veil of the Temple was rent in twain form the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;" [51]

This took place when every last rite, ordinance and sacrificial ritual that required a blood sacrifice of animals, (or part of those blood sacrifices) was done away with, for Jesus Christ's death on the cross fulfilled them all. However, those laws that deal with the governing of our everyday lives, were and are still on the books, and they are what God expects the true man and woman of God to follow. Those laws and commandments should be common knowledge to all mankind, for they are what all civilized law and government is based upon. The ten commandments, as Jesus will discuss later in this chapter, are just acting out plain common sense, and when anyone tells you that you don't have to follow the law because it is dead, and then you violate them, then you will deserve what ever punishment is given for it's violation.
Behind that veil [called the holy of holies] in the Temple is where the blood sacrifices were laid on the Altar of God. Only the Levitical priesthood could go into the Holy of Holies, behind the veil, and approach our Heavenly Father.

Now our love and belief in Jesus Christ, and His saving works on the cross, is what allows us to approach God, with our repentance for our sin, and the changing of our sinful ways. It is beautiful how our Heavenly Father made the way to Him so easy, but the price was very high, for it took the very life's blood of His Son, Jesus Christ. When you refuse that gift, you are throwing it right back in His face, and you will answer for that at the appointed time.

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

Not one word that has been written, or Prophesied in the Scriptures will be done away with, not one. The "jot" is the smallest letter in the Hebrew language, and appears like this " ' ", and it is recorded in the original Massoretic text 66,420 times. It is called "yod", and is pronounced "iota". However the jot, like the tittle have no sound where it is used.

The "tittle" is an small ornament that is placed over Hebrew letters, so you can tell the difference between the two letters that are very similar in appearance. It has no sound of its own, but eliminates the confusion of identifing Hebrew letters, such as telling the difference between R = resh [ ], and D = deleth [ ]. Jesus has told us that every marking of the original will stay in place, and apply to God's people, until that prophecy has come to pass, or the law has been fulfilled.

Many prophecies are already fulfilled, as well as all the blood sacrifices, and ordinances. Some of the law will not be fulfilled until after judgment day, when we enter the eternal age. Then all sin will be done away with, because the tempter, Satan, and all those that followed his ways will be turned to ashes. The health laws are in place to give us a long healthful life, while living in the flesh. To break those laws, is not so much a sin, but results in poor health, and sickness.

Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

The blood ordinances are gone, they were finish when Christ went to the cross, but not one of God's laws has been fulfilled. Jesus is telling His disciples and us that that if we break even the smallest law, we break them all. God holds those that go out and on purpose, breaks any of them, the least of importance in His kingdom. Did you get that? "and shallteach men so." I would think twice before teaching that the law was done away with, or if I did, it is time for repentance for you.

The breaking of the law does not make the law bad, but it makes man bad. When the law is broken, then we must follow Christ's first words of instruction, in Matthew 4:17; "Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." Until you repent, you will wear your sins. Being a believer does not wash your sins away. But when you repent in Jesus name, they are gone forever. We sin in so many things, daily, and this is why we must repent daily. We must die daily to our sinful nature, that is in conflict with the new nature that God has placed within us when we accept Jesus Christ.

Overall well said, thank you.

 

[dfw69]

All God is doing here is what is commonly done in Jewish culture...the son called by the father's name. God does that for their benefit, to help them understand the prophecy.

This is why Jesus is called the 'son of David in Matthew! This prophecy to be speaking of Christ as "My servant David"...they do this in light of propecies of Christ;

Isaiah 9:6, 7:
6 For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will accomplish this.

Peter clearly tells you it's not David. in Acts 2:34.

this scriptures you quote confirms david has a kingdom...and Jesus is over his kingdom...to establish David's throne ...to establish David's kingdom...Jesus is Lord over David kingdom that will be established from that point on forever....

This is unfulfilled prophecy yet to take place...when the Lord returns

 

[ebedmelech]

this scriptures you quote confirms david has a kingdom...and Jesus is over his kingdom...to establish David's throne ...to establish David's kingdom...Jesus is Lord over David kingdom that will be established from that point on forever....

This is unfulfilled prophecy yet to take place...when the Lord returns

That's not what Peter is saying. He quotes Psalm 110..."The Lord said to my Lord..."

He then goes on to point out that it is not David who is the king, but Jesus...Acts 2:29
29 “Brethren, I may confidently say to you regarding the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Peter is telling them here that the king is not David, but Jesus.

This is the very point Jesus makes in Matthew 22:41-45, when He questions them about what David means in Psalm 110.

Jesus is the king of the covenant that God made with David in 2 Samuel 7:8-17.

David's kingdom is "everlasting" because Jesus is king right now...He is King of kings and Lord of Lords!

 

[Rev20]

Did not God promises we will be kings and priest ?...is not David's son the King of kings and Lord of lords?

God never promised us we will be kings and priests. The kingdoms were reserved for the Saints, such as the disciples. Here Jesus gives them reign over the twelve tribes of Israel:

"And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." -- Lk 22:29-30


So, we know the disciples will be reigning over and judging the twelve tribes of Israel. But who will David judge and be king over?

According to Ezekiel he will be king over Israel:

"And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all . . . And David my servant shall be king over [Israel]; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore." -- Eze 37:22, 24-26


You see the problem? Jesus promised the kingdoms of Israel to the disciples. But, according to your futurist interpretation, David will have absolute rule over Israel. Who should I believe?

I believe Jesus. Therefore, Ezekiel's prophecy cannot be for the future. It can only be prophecy for events of the past.

Did not David call him Lord ?...the Lord said to my Lord?

Explain how that fits your Ezekiel interpretation.

David will be king ..Jesus is Lord over his kingdom ...Jesus is the king of kings

Prove it in the scripture, if you can. Otherwise, I have no alternative but to assume you are simply presenting unproven dispensational talking points in an attempt to defend an undefendable interpretive technique called "literalism".

 

[Bro in Christ]

God never promised us we will be kings and priests. The kingdoms were reserved for the Saints, such as the disciples. Here Jesus gives them reign over the twelve tribes of Israel:

"And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel." -- Lk 22:29-30

rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So, we know the disciples will be reigning over and judging the twelve tribes of Israel. But who will David judge and be king over?

According to Ezekiel he will be king over Israel:

"And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all . . . And David my servant shall be king over [Israel]; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever. Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore." -- Eze 37:22, 24-26


You see the problem? Jesus promised the kingdoms of Israel to the disciples. But, according to your futurist interpretation, David will have absolute rule over Israel. Who should I believe?

I believe Jesus. Therefore, Ezekiel's prophecy cannot be for the future. It can only be prophecy for events of the past.



Explain how that fits your Ezekiel interpretation.



Prove it in the scripture, if you can. Otherwise, I have no alternative but to assume you are simply presenting unproven dispensational talking points in an attempt to defend an undefendable interpretive technique called "literalism".

Houston we have a problem

 

[Rev20]

rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

John was one of the disciples who Jesus promised a throne of judgement over one of the tribes of Israel. The others--the four beasts and four and twenty elders--have not been identified; but I suspect the 24 are the 12 apostles and the 12 patriarchs, since they are identified later (Rev 21) as "foundations" and "gates" of the New Jerusalem, the Church. Three of other four may be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, since Jesus specifically identified them them as future residents of the kingdom of God/heaven:

"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." -- Mt 8:11-12

"But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God." -- Lk 13:27-29

 

[n2thelight]

So, David will be the king, and not Christ? David has been dead for a long time, so that must be referring to the spiritual name of David. Peter explained in the Acts:

"Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool." -- Acts 2:29-35


So, Peter eliminated any possibility that David would be the one sitting on the throne, therefore making void any literal interpretation of Ezekiel 37 and Ezekiel 34, where it is prophesied that David will be the only shepherd, and not Christ:

"Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle. And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it. And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods." -- Eze 34:22-25


And Jeremiah prophesied that David will be their king, after being raised up:

"But they shall serve the Lord their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." -- Jer 30:9


Therefore, all those prophesies must be interpreted figuratively, not literally. Jeremiah explains later that his words about David are not literal:

"In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land. In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The Lord our righteousness. For thus saith the Lord; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;" -- Jer 33:15-17

Yes David has been dead for a long time,however he is now in Heaven,and shall return with Christ along with all other's who have died...


Ezekiel 37:24 "And David My servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them."

King David will have a rightful rulership in the Millennium kingdom. Though Jesus Christ will be the King of Kings, David will be the leader of the Israelite peoples.

 

[Rev20]

Yes David has been dead for a long time,however he is now in Heaven,and shall return with Christ along with all other's who have died...


Ezekiel 37:24 "And David My servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in My judgments, and observe My statutes, and do them."

King David will have a rightful rulership in the Millennium kingdom. Though Jesus Christ will be the King of Kings, David will be the leader of the Israelite peoples.

You are repeating what has already been disproven. Jesus promised the disciples that they would sit on thrones over Israel, not David. Therefore, the futurist interpretation of Ezekiel 34 and 37 is exegetically untenable.

 

[n2thelight]

You are repeating what has already been disproven. Jesus promised the disciples that they would sit on thrones over Israel, not David. Therefore, the futurist interpretation of Ezekiel 34 and 37 is exegetically untenable.

I fail to see where it has been disproven......


Ezekiel 37:27 "My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be My People."

Ezekiel 37:28 "And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

Very much future

 

[Rev20]

I fail to see where it has been disproven......


Ezekiel 37:27 "My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be My People."

Ezekiel 37:28 "And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

Very much future

When will the disciples reign over Israel, as Jesus promised them?

 

[Bro in Christ]

John was one of the disciples who Jesus promised a throne of judgement over one of the tribes of Israel. The others--the four beasts and four and twenty elders--have not been identified; but I suspect the 24 are the 12 apostles and the 12 patriarchs, since they are identified later (Rev 21) as "foundations" and "gates" of the New Jerusalem, the Church. Three of other four may be Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, since Jesus specifically identified them them as future residents of the kingdom of God/heaven:

rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?-3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

1 peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

"And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." -- Mt 8:11-12

"But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God." -- Lk 13:27-29

taking scripture out of context

 

[Rev20]

rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

1 cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?-3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Who are the Saints? Certainly not us. The Saints were the earliest Christians: those who received the power of the Holy Ghost on or shortly after the day of Pentecost. Jesus identified them as follows:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." -- Mk 16:17-18


Do you know anyone like that? I don't. I have only read about them in the scriptures. Those were the saints. We are simply the fruit of their labours.

1 peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

Peter was writing to the scattered tribes of Israel, not the Gentiles. Moses also wrote about those "peculiar people" from the tribes of Israel:

"For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth." -- Deu 14:2


A remnant of those peculiar people were called as the elect:

"And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the Lord hath said, and in the remnant whom the Lord shall call." -- Joel 2:32


"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace." -- Rom 11:5-7


They were the chosen ones--the redeemed--and they are the ones who serve in heaven as priests to the high priest:

"And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the Lord: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken." -- Isa 62:12


"These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb." -- Rev 14:4


"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." -- Rev 20:6


They were predestined to serve the Lord in heaven:

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will…" -- Eph 1:4-5

taking scripture out of context

You most certainly did.