1 Peter 3:21 and Mark 1:4 Which Type of Baptism?

Natsumi Lam

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Hi Family,

Which baptism is this verse talking about? Strongs 908

Could it be a non-literal baptism but Christ's baptism unto death and our identification with Him in it? Or does it literally mean the act of water baptism? Why?

The same Strongs 908 is used in Mark 1:4.

How does this keep or change your belief of which baptism you chose?

1 Peter 3:21
3:21
Size: BYZ / TR | figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save (5719) us * (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 1:
1:4
Size: BYZ / TR | John did (5633) baptize (5723) in the wilderness, and preach (5723) the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Col 2:12
2:12
[ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | with (5651) him in baptism, wherein * * also ye are risen with (5681) him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised (5660) him from the dead.


~Natsumi Lam~
 

ViaCrucis

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Hi Family,

Which baptism is this verse talking about? Strongs 908

Could it be a non-literal baptism but Christ's baptism unto death and our identification with Him in it? Or does it literally mean the act of water baptism? Why?

The same Strongs 908 is used in Mark 1:4.

How does this keep or change your belief of which baptism you chose?

1 Peter 3:21
3:21
Size: BYZ / TR | figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save (5719) us * (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Mark 1:
1:4
Size: BYZ / TR | John did (5633) baptize (5723) in the wilderness, and preach (5723) the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Col 2:12
2:12
[ Greek Font Size: BYZ / TR | with (5651) him in baptism, wherein * * also ye are risen with (5681) him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised (5660) him from the dead.


~Natsumi Lam~

Unless you were personally baptized by St. John the Baptist then it wasn't John's baptism of repentance. 1 Peter 3:21 and Colossians 2:12 are referring to Christian Baptism.

"Or does it literally mean the act of water baptism? Why?"

Yes, it really does mean Baptism. This isn't some esoteric puzzle, the text means what it says. Why? Because there's no reason to think the text means anything other than what it says.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Natsumi Lam

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Unless you were personally baptized by St. John the Baptist then it wasn't John's baptism of repentance. 1 Peter 3:21 and Colossians 2:12 are referring to Christian Baptism.

"Or does it literally mean the act of water baptism? Why?"

Yes, it really does mean Baptism. This isn't some esoteric puzzle, the text means what it says. Why? Because there's no reason to think the text means anything other than what it says.

-CryptoLutheran
What about romans 6:3? Is it the same?

1 peter mentions it is by the resurrection of JC...how does that relate?
 
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GodLovesCats

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Again, the next verse spefically describes a water baptism.

4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

"We were buried" refers to the dunk underwater.
". . . like as Christ was raised from the dead . . ." is coming back up and getting out of the baptismal.
 
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com7fy8

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Also, Jesus said He had a baptism to be baptized with, and already He had been water baptized.

So, the baptism of His suffering and death on Calvary, if this is what He means, was separate in time from the outward water baptism.

And when we die to self and become a new creature in Jesus, we have been baptized into His death, and I think the repentance of this process was the baptism. So, the baptism of repentance could mean not water baptism, but repenting, though there might be water baptism present.
 
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Kris Jordan

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Does the very act of water baptism save you or you belief save you?

No, there is NO salvation in anything other than trusting Jesus for His sacrifice on the cross for our sins, which paid our sin debt in full. We cannot EVER do anything to "add to" what He already did for us on the cross. Right before He died, He said, "It is finished!" and His resurrection from the dead three days later confirms that His sacrifice satisfied all of God's holy requirements on our behalf.

The bible says:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)


You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:26 (NASB)

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13 (NKJV)


Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)


And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:11-13 (NKJV)
 
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ViaCrucis

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What about romans 6:3? Is it the same?

1 peter mentions it is by the resurrection of JC...how does that relate?

Yes, Paul is talking about Baptism in Romans 6.

There's no reason to think Baptism ever means something other than Baptism unless it is qualified otherwise, e.g. when Jesus speaks of His suffering as a baptism, or when Paul speaks of the Israelite's wandering in the desert as a baptism, or when John the Baptist says the Christ will baptize with the Holy Spirit and with fire (which was fulfilled by the outpouring of the Spirit on Pentecost).

But otherwise Baptism means Baptism, and there's no reason to read anything into the text that isn't there.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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No, there is NO salvation in anything other than trusting Jesus for His sacrifice on the cross for our sins, which paid our sin debt in full. We cannot EVER do anything to "add to" what He already did for us on the cross. Right before He died, He said, "It is finished!" and His resurrection from the dead three days later confirms that His sacrifice satisfied all of God's holy requirements on our behalf.

The bible says:

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)


You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
Galatians 3:26 (NASB)

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
John 1:12-13 (NKJV)


Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:1-2 (NKJV)


And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:11-13 (NKJV)

How does a person receive faith?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Kris Jordan

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How does a person receive faith?

-CryptoLutheran

Hi, sorry I didn't see this. I'm still trying to navigate this site and catch all alerts on posts, etc. :)

A person doesn't "receive faith," a person places their trust/faith in Jesus for their salvation. When we choose to believe Him for what He did for us on the cross, God imparts salvation and forgiveness to us, which is His gift of grace, His undeserved, free gift.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hi, sorry I didn't see this. I'm still trying to navigate this site and catch all alerts on posts, etc. :)

A person doesn't "receive faith," a person places their trust/faith in Jesus for their salvation. When we choose to believe Him for what He did for us on the cross, God imparts salvation and forgiveness to us, which is His gift of grace, His undeserved, free gift.

Except Scripture says that faith is a gift. Ephesians 2:8 reads, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,", and in Romans 10:17 we read, "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

If faith is a human act we must do in order to earn our salvation, then salvation isn't a free gift.

But since faith isn't of ourselves, it is the gift of God, something which we receive from God as pure gift then the salvation He accomplishes for us is, likewise, pure gift.

So how does one receive faith? The answer, of course, is through God's Means, as we see in Romans 10, the word of God, i.e. the Gospel, creates faith.

So wherever God's word is living and active, there is God's work to give and create faith, and appropriate for us all which Christ has done.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Except Scripture says that faith is a gift. Ephesians 2:8 reads, "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,", and in Romans 10:17 we read, "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ."

If faith is a human act we must do in order to earn our salvation, then salvation isn't a free gift.

But since faith isn't of ourselves, it is the gift of God, something which we receive from God as pure gift then the salvation He accomplishes for us is, likewise, pure gift.

So how does one receive faith? The answer, of course, is through God's Means, as we see in Romans 10, the word of God, i.e. the Gospel, creates faith.

So wherever God's word is living and active, there is God's work to give and create faith, and appropriate for us all which Christ has done.

-CryptoLutheran

Hi ViaCrucis,

So you believe salvation is automatic for everyone?

Salvation IS a gift and not by works, but we have to receive it by faith in order for it to become ours. Here's an analogy to help you with this:

  • If I went to the store to buy an expensive gift for you, used my own money to purchase it, brought it home, gift wrapped it, brought it to you on your birthday and offered it to you in my hands -- that gift would not actually become yours (or in your possession) until you took it from me by reaching out your hands to accept it. Your other choice would be to reject it. Just because you have the ability to receive it doesn't mean it automatically becomes yours without any action (not "works") on your part. And if you did receive my gift, it also doesn't mean you did anything to "earn" it or provide it or work for it. You simply received the free gift I offered to you. If you refused the gift, it would not be yours because it never transferred ownership from me to you.
God is the one who has provided salvation. God is the one who has provided each of us with a measure of faith capable of believing Him. But God has given us a free will to choose or reject Him. Therefore, it is our responsibility to exercise our God-given faith by placing it in Him for our salvation. Otherwise, we do not possess it. God did His part, we are responsible for doing our part, which is to simply to receive it by trusting Him and what He did for us (that we could never do for ourselves). Believing does not equate to "works" on our part, since there is absolutely nothing we can do to earn, provide for, or accomplish our own salvation. Nowhere in Scripture is that an automatic thing for anyone. Otherwise, hell would not exist.
 
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GodLovesCats

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Does the very act of water baptism save you or you belief save you?

Obviously not. Babies are unable to learn about the Gospel, much less understand it. Therefore, baptizing infants as many churches do is a waste of time. If baptism actually is a requirement to be saved (and I'm one who believes the opposite) this should not happen before the person decides to enter God's Kingdom.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Hi ViaCrucis,

So you believe salvation is automatic for everyone?

No. While it is true that all have been objectively justified by Christ's work, since Christ died for all (Romans 5:18), the way God applies that objective work to us individually is through the Means He has established. Which is why St. Paul writes,

"How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? ...So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ." - Romans 10:14-15,17

Salvation doesn't happen spontaneously out of no where, Christ commissioned His Apostles, and thus the Church, to "make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28:19) and to "and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem." (Luke 24:47)

Hence the universal work of Christ which is objectively for all comes to us through the Means God has Himself established; it is why the Church has been given the task of preaching the Word and administering the Sacraments, as we see right there in Scripture. That is how God has chosen to work to create and give us faith, through which we have been freely justified by God's grace.

Salvation IS a gift and not by works, but we have to receive it by faith in order for it to become ours. Here's an analogy to help you with this:

  • If I went to the store to buy an expensive gift for you, used my own money to purchase it, brought it home, gift wrapped it, brought it to you on your birthday and offered it to you in my hands -- that gift would not actually become yours (or in your possession) until you took it from me by reaching out your hands to accept it. Your other choice would be to reject it. Just because you have the ability to receive it doesn't mean it automatically becomes yours without any action (not "works") on your part. And if you did receive my gift, it also doesn't mean you did anything to "earn" it or provide it or work for it. You simply received the free gift I offered to you. If you refused the gift, it would not be yours because it never transferred ownership from me to you.

Yes, that's the same analogy I used to hear all the time growing up in Evangelicalism. The problem with it is that it places the locus of our salvation upon us. It is up to us to do the right thing. Simply saying there is only one work we have to do in order to be saved doesn't stop it from being works.

Here is the more appropriate analogy, if I am a person of great wealth and I assign an inheritance to you and place it directly into your bank account, this gift and inheritance already belongs to you. It's yours, you don't have to take it, you don't have to come to me to take it from me--it's yours. It's in your possession. However, how can you benefit from this gift if you do not know about it? Unless someone tells you that it is in your bank account. If you have not heard, then you cannot believe, and unless you believe you cannot enjoy the benefits of the gift.

Forgiveness is yours in Christ, not by your decision, not by your choice, not by any work; but by what Christ has done. Period. But how can you benefit from Christ's work unless you hear it? How can you hear it unless it is told to you? And so the good news of this gift is presented and given to you, that you might hear the Gospel, that you might benefit from the Gospel. That upon hearing this Word, upon receiving this Word (which is a passive thing on your part), through the preaching of the Word and the administration of the Sacraments, you are now the benefactor of that good word. For what Christ has accomplished for you is yours, that through faith you might take possession of it; but this faith is not a work of your flesh, it is the gift of God. For without the Spirit giving you faith through God's Means you could not know or believe, but would remain ignorant of it, lost in the despair of your sin, knowing only the condemnation that comes from the Law.

God is the one who has provided salvation. God is the one who has provided each of us with a measure of faith capable of believing Him. But God has given us a free will to choose or reject Him. Therefore, it is our responsibility to exercise our God-given faith by placing it in Him for our salvation. Otherwise, we do not possess it. God did His part, we are responsible for doing our part, which is to simply to receive it by trusting Him and what He did for us (that we could never do for ourselves). Believing does not equate to "works" on our part, since there is absolutely nothing we can do to earn, provide for, or accomplish our own salvation. Nowhere in Scripture is that an automatic thing for anyone. Otherwise, hell would not exist.

If the will was free then men could choose and follow after God by their own devices, strength, effort, and works; and indeed it would have been said that there are those who follow after God and obey His commandments and they are thus justified by their righteous works. But that is not what the Scriptures say.

The Scriptures say that we were dead in our trespasses, held in bondage to sin and death, and that there is no one who loves God, no one who seeks after God, no one who does good, no one who is righteous--no, not even one. And that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That the wages of sin is death. That the heart is wicked and desperately sick, who can understand it? Therefore, at the right time, the time of God's own choosing, He sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, and that by the life, obedience, death, and resurrection of God's Son God has freely justified sinners. So that there is a justice that is apart form the Law, for indeed no one can be justified under the Law, there is instead that justice which is by faith in Christ, which is God's gift, pure gift.

If you rely on the depravity of your will to be justified, then you will only find death, for there is only death in your bones. Our salvation is found outside of us, in what Christ has accomplished for us, once and for all. Believe the good news.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Obviously not. Babies are unable to learn about the Gospel, much less understand it.

Show me anyone who fully comprehends the depth and mystery of God's grace, and I'll show you someone who lacks faith.

We are not saved by our knowledge and understanding, we are saved by the grace and power of God in Christ's death and resurrection.

This Gospel is for you, your children, and for everyone.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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You missed the point Via. We are saved by grace and faith, not grace alone.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He sent his only begotten Son so that whoever believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life."

Babies cannot "believe in Him" because they are not yet mentally able to understand there is such a thing as a supernatural God who can make a virgin pregnant, resurrect His Son, and be everywhere constantly.
 
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