“We are all fundamentally good ... the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis

[eleos1954]

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Mans problem is not about being good or bad. It is about life, more specifically Eternal Life also known as The Life of God. Which man does not receive at birth, because of Adam. But God being a gracious God created a simple way (and only one way) man can receive The life of God.

The simple way is by belief in Jesus, believing that Jesus is who He says He is. Which is the resurrection and the life, The promised Messiah/Son of God.

When a person believes this about Jesus they become a pernamnet born again child of God. At the very moment of belief in Jesus, they cross over from death to life.

So a person never needs to worry at all about are they good enough to be judged by God to receive eternal life. Because the person is not and never will be, so just receive God's free gift by belief in Jesus.

Belief is not simply believing Jesus is who He says He is ....

JAMES 2:19
KJ21
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well. The devils also believe — and tremble.

Believing in Jesus is walking in His ways .... following in His footsteps. When one receives Jesus as their Lord and savior .... change happens (should happen) ... through the work of the Holy Spirit through Christ in the believer we will be empowered to overcome sin.

Our works are filthy rags ... without Him we can do nothing ... HIs works brings change/regeneration ... turning away from sin.

The work of the Holy Spirit includes conviction of sin (John 16:8), regeneration (John 3:5-6), assurance of salvation (Rom. 8:16), enlightenment (John 16:13), transformation (2 Cor. 3:18), fruitfulness (Gal. 5:22-23), and others.

Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; this continues throughout our earthly life time if we remain in Him.

1 John 1:7 teaches that once a sinner is saved, if that Christian keeps on walking in the light, they will always remain saved… But… this continual state of being saved depends upon our continual faithfulness to God and in no way does this verse, nor the entire Bible teach that we are incapable of falling from God’s grace!

 

[Jamdoc]

In the context of the interview he is talking about what gives him hope.
Why play "gotcha" with such a hopeful statement?
He can see the good and "heroism" in people. It is too bad so many people can only see the evil.

"what gives him hope"
answer should be easy: Jesus Christ.

 

[d taylor]

Belief is not simply believing Jesus is who He says He is ....

JAMES 2:19
KJ21
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well. The devils also believe — and tremble.

Believing in Jesus is walking in His ways .... following in His footsteps. When one receives Jesus as their Lord and savior .... change happens (should happen) ... through the work of the Holy Spirit through Christ in the believer we will be empowered to overcome sin.

Our works are filthy rags ... without Him we can do nothing ... HIs works brings change/regeneration ... turning away from sin.

The work of the Holy Spirit includes conviction of sin (John 16:8), regeneration (John 3:5-6), assurance of salvation (Rom. 8:16), enlightenment (John 16:13), transformation (2 Cor. 3:18), fruitfulness (Gal. 5:22-23), and others.

Through the Spirit we are born again and sanctified; this continues throughout our earthly life time if we remain in Him.

1 John 1:7 teaches that once a sinner is saved, if that Christian keeps on walking in the light, they will always remain saved… But… this continual state of being saved depends upon our continual faithfulness to God and in no way does this verse, nor the entire Bible teach that we are incapable of falling from God’s grace!

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Belief is just that, simple belief in Jesus, believing that Jesus is who He says He is.

You want to redefine belief because you do not believe that is how belief is used in The Bible.
Fine then you have that right, but i will never agree to your definition of belief.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

 

[Jamdoc]

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Belief is just that, simple belief in Jesus, believing that Jesus is who He says He is.

You want to redefine belief because you do not believe that is how belief is used in The Bible.
Fine then you have that right, but i will never agree to your definition of belief.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

Yeah I'll agree when people say it's not enough to believe Jesus existed, there's a lot of people who believe Jesus existed and was a "good teacher" or a "good person" and Muslims even believe He is the Messiah,
but that's not what Jesus means for you to believe. You have to believe He is the Son of God, come in the flesh, and believe Him when He says things and makes promises and teaches. Believe that.
You can believe Jesus existed.... and then not believe what He says about Himself, what He says about His Father, what He says He will do (both in our past and in our future), and not be saved.
But the people who were saved, believed Him and what He said. Luke 23, the repentant criminal next to Jesus. all he did was believe Jesus was who He claimed to be..... direct promise from Jesus of Salvation.

That belief will, inevitably, change things in your life. But those changes aren't the process required, they're the result.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

"what gives him hope"
answer should be easy: Jesus Christ.

The question was , "When you look at the world, what gives you hope?"
His initial answer was, "Everything" and then he gave examples of heroism." The bit about fundamental goodness followed from that."

I can't believe this nitpicking.

 

[Clare73]

Belief is not simply believing Jesus is who He says He is ....

Correct. . .it is not simply that, but it is that. .and without that, it is not saving faith.

If you do not believe in and trust him, as least implicitly, for the atonement for your sin (Ro 3:25), you are not saved.

 

[Jamdoc]

The question was , "When you look at the world, what gives you hope?"
His initial answer was, "Everything" and then he gave examples of heroism." The bit about fundamental goodness followed from that."

I can't believe this nitpicking.

"that Jesus Christ will be coming back to it"
still a simpler and better answer.

 

[concretecamper]

View attachment 348436

“We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis.

But what does God’s word say?

“… None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.” “Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive.” “The venom of asps is under their lips.” “Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known.” “There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Romans 3:10-18 ESV)

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately sick; who can understand it?” (Jeremiah 17:9 ESV)

If man and his heart is fundamentally good, why do we need a saviour?
For what purpose did Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, die?
Who should we believe, the Pope, or God?

As it is written, “We must obey God rather than men.” (Acts 5:29)

But there is good news...

Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was crucified and died for our sins, taking upon Himself the punishment we deserve. He was then buried and raised back to life on the third day, in accordance with the scriptures. He now sits at His Father’s right hand and is awaiting His Father’s instruction to return. This was all recorded in the scriptures contained in the Holy Bible, which is the word of God and is able to save our souls.

Today, if you hear His voice, do not harden your heart in rebellion. Whoever conceals his sins will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy and forgiveness. If you repent and believe in the gospel, putting your faith in Jesus Christ, you will inherit salvation, which leads to everlasting life. With this salvation comes a necessary spiritual rebirth; God will give you a new heart and His Holy Spirit, which will give you wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, put His Laws on your heart and mind, guide you into all the truth, help you, and comfort you. By the blood of Jesus, sanctifying you and cleansing you of all unrighteousness—conforming you to His image.

Considering that we all are created on the image and likeness of God, I'd say we are fundamentally good. But that doesn't mean we all act good.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Catechism of the Catholic Church - Paragraph 404

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam "as one body of one man".By this "unity of the human race" all men are implicated in Adam's sin, as all are implicated in Christ's justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state. It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called "sin" only in an analogical sense: it is a sin "contracted" and not "committed" - a state and not an act.

 

[Hawkins]

That depends on what standard you are applying. Humans tend to apply a self-righteousness standard to say that they are good.

Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

We are all murderers, as we know with full awareness the children in Africa are dying of hunger while we are using our spare money to enjoy life and surf the net.

God uses Law as the standard to measure who (entities with freewill) is good. From this perspective, no human is righteous, not even one!

 

[bbbbbbb]

That depends on what standard you are applying. Humans tend to apply a self-righteousness standard to say that they are good.

Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone.

We are all murderers, as we know with full awareness the children in Africa are dying of hunger while we are using our spare money to enjoy life and surf the net.

God uses Law as the standard to measure who (entities with freewill) is good. From this perspective, no human is righteous, not even one!

Absolutely true. That is why Psalms 14 and 53 are identical to each other to stress this very point and why Paul, in Romans 3, quoted these Psalms as if to reject the notion that human nature had somehow changed after Jesus Christ had come.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

"that Jesus Christ will be coming back to it"
still a simpler and better answer.

sez the armchair interviewee.

 

[Jamdoc]

sez the armchair interviewee.

Shouldn't the Pope be pointing people to Jesus? Aren't we all supposed to be?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Shouldn't the Pope be pointing people to Jesus? Aren't we all supposed to be?

O come on. He was asked what gives him hope in the context of looking at this world, not the next.

 

[ViaCrucis]

View attachment 348436

“We are all fundamentally good. Yes, there are some rogues and sinners, but the heart itself is good,” says Pope Francis.

I'd prefer to understand and know the context before saying anything else.

As a Lutheran, attacking a Pope for saying something that sounds deeply theologically at odds with the essence of Original Sin/Total Depravity and the need for Grace in the Gospel would be very easy. Low hanging fruit as they say.

But I have a suspicion that there is probably a larger context that is being left out here.

-CryptoLUtheran

 

[concretecamper]

As a Lutheran, attacking a Pope for saying something that sounds deeply theologically at odds with the essence of Original Sin/Total Depravity and the need for Grace in the Gospel would be very easy. Low hanging fruit as they say.

I trust you know that The Pope would NEVER promote "total depravity". So I expect his comments to be at odds with it

 

[o_mlly]

How does one who is righteous disobey?

There are two moments that Augustine must explain for the Original Sin: the state of man's nature before and during the fall, and the state of man's nature after the fall.

Before and during the fall, man's nature is, as God created man, good and open to sin (free will). After the fall, man's nature is corrupted, open but now inclined to sin. In his first sin man lost his righteousness before God.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

There are two moments that Augustine must explain for the Original Sin: the state of man's nature before and during the fall, and the state of man's nature after the fall.

Before and during the fall, man's nature is, as God created man, good and open to sin (free will). After the fall, man's nature is corrupted, open but now inclined to sin. In his first sin man lost his righteousness before God.

How do you account for these references to righteous people?
Psalm 34:19
The righteous person may have many troubles, but the Lord delivers him from them all;

Psalm 37:16
Better the little that the righteous have than the wealth of many wicked;

Ezekiel 18:5-9
“Suppose there is a righteous man
who does what is just and right.
6 He does not eat at the mountain shrines
or look to the idols of Israel.
He does not defile his neighbor’s wife
or have sexual relations with a woman during her period.
7 He does not oppress anyone,
but returns what he took in pledge for a loan.
He does not commit robbery
but gives his food to the hungry
and provides clothing for the naked.
8 He does not lend to them at interest
or take a profit from them.
He withholds his hand from doing wrong
and judges fairly between two parties.
9 He follows my decrees
and faithfully keeps my laws.
That man is righteous;
he will surely live,
declares the Sovereign Lord.


Matthew 13:17
For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
Mark 6:20
because Herod feared John and protected him, knowing him to be a righteous and holy man. When Herod heard John, he was greatly puzzled; yet he liked to listen to him.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I trust you know that The Pope would NEVER promote "total depravity". So I expect his comments to be at odds with it

The point is that I have my suspicion that Pope Francis wasn't suggesting human beings are inherently righteous before God.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Jamdoc]

O come on. He was asked what gives him hope in the context of looking at this world, not the next.

I don't grasp the issue here, maybe because I have no hope in this world I only have Jesus.