6,000 Years?

Job 33:6 · 2025-07-22T18:16:47-0500

Platte said:
And when was the sun moon and stars created? And how about the first man?

These texts too do not describe ex nihilo creation. Consider the creation of Adam for example. In chapter 2, he is not described as appearing out of thin air. Rather God takes pre existing material and molds it into Adam.

Ancient texts do not describe creation in ex nihilo terms.

And making something to do something, is not to say that an object is created out of nothing. I can make a sports team for the sake of playing football. But to create or to make something, does not inherently mean that the term is ex nihilo.

So when God makes the sun and the moon to rule the day and the night, that doesn't inherently mean ex nihilo creation.

And so much like the earth, the text simply doesn't clarify on ex nihilo creation. Rather this creation is ex materia, and/or functional. Not material.

The Hebrew word "bara" simply does not mean "ex nihilo". And anyone can do a simple word study of this in the Bible to prove that quite easily.

FaithT · 2025-07-22T18:30:40-0500

Job 33:6 said:
That's right. It doesn't say whether the Earth was there a billion prior or two seconds prior. It merely says that when God began to act on it, it was.

If I said "when I began to drive my car to work, it was raining outside"

No one would rush to the door arguing "wow! It began raining the instant you started driving to work!" Even though it is a possibility.

The point being that the text doesn't say either way. It's ambiguous as to how long, even if at all, the earth was present before God began to create it.

And I'm fine agreeing that I have to assume something. Because I acknowledge that the text is ambiguous.

Alternatively, you are also assuming something, but you aren't acknowledging your assumption. You're saying "no, it's not actually ambiguous and there is no possibility that the earth was present before God began to create it".

I get what you’re saying.

Platte · 2025-07-22T18:41:22-0500

Job 33:6 said:
These texts too do not describe ex nihilo creation. Consider the creation of Adam for example. In chapter 2, he is not described as appearing out of thin air. Rather God takes pre existing material and molds it into Adam.

Ancient texts do not describe creation in ex nihilo terms.

And making something to do something, is not to say that an object is created out of nothing. I can make a sports team for the sake of playing football. But to create or to make something, does not inherently mean that the term is ex nihilo.

So when God makes the sun and the moon to rule the day and the night, that doesn't inherently mean ex nihilo creation.

And so much like the earth, the text simply doesn't clarify on ex nihilo creation. Rather this creation is ex materia, and/or functional. Not material.

The Hebrew word "bara" simply does not mean "ex nihilo". And anyone can do a simple word study of this in the Bible to prove that quite easily.

So Adam was created as a man from molded material? So explain what happened on the 4th day

FaithT · 2025-07-22T19:29:52-0500

Job 33:6 said:
These texts too do not describe ex nihilo creation. Consider the creation of Adam for example. In chapter 2, he is not described as appearing out of thin air. Rather God takes pre existing material and molds it into Adam.

Ancient texts do not describe creation in ex nihilo terms.

And making something to do something, is not to say that an object is created out of nothing. I can make a sports team for the sake of playing football. But to create or to make something, does not inherently mean that the term is ex nihilo.

So when God makes the sun and the moon to rule the day and the night, that doesn't inherently mean ex nihilo creation.

And so much like the earth, the text simply doesn't clarify on ex nihilo creation. Rather this creation is ex materia, and/or functional. Not material.

The Hebrew word "bara" simply does not mean "ex nihilo". And anyone can do a simple word study of this in the Bible to prove that quite easily.

I dont believe God made Adam out of clay, either. Do you?

Job 33:6 · 2025-07-22T19:35:30-0500

FaithT said:
I dont believe God made Adam out of clay, either. Do you?

It is not my preferred interpretation, but I simply make that statement rhetorically, that even in the position of a literalist, the text still wouldn't involve ex nihilo creation.

FaithT · 2025-07-22T19:39:54-0500

Job 33:6 said:
It is not my preferred interpretation, but I simply make that statement rhetorically, that even in the position of a literalist, the text still wouldn't involve ex nihilo creation.

Science says this, according to AI Overview:

Scientific Perspective:
- While not suggesting literal creation from clay, some research explores the possibility of clay playing a role in the formation of the first cells and the origin of life.
- Clays can act as catalysts and templates for the formation of organic molecules and the enclosure of these molecules in vesicles, which are similar to early cell membranes.

Job 33:6 · 2025-07-22T19:44:12-0500

Platte said:
So Adam was created as a man from molded material? So explain what happened on the 4th day

Genesis 1:16-18 NRSVUE
[16] God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. [17] God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth, [18] to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

God did not make these objects ex nihilo, rather God made them to do something. Just like I can make a chef to make dinner, or I can make a blacksmith to make metal objects.

Isaiah 54:16 NRSVUE
[16] See, it is I who have created the smith who blows the fire of coals and produces a weapon fit for its purpose; I have also created the ravager to destroy.

When God makes things, it is for purpose. Perhaps it may involve moving things around, such as God moving the waters off the earth (during the earths creation) on day 3. But again, the broader point being that these objects are already present. And God is taking them and He is doing something with them. Making them to do things. Making them into something more than they already are. Giving them meaning and purpose.

It isn't about them appearing into existence out of nothing.

Psalms 51:10 NRSVUE
[10] Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit within me.

Platte · 2025-07-23T06:36:14-0500

Job 33:6 said:
Genesis 1:16-18 NRSVUE
[16] God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. [17] God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth, [18] to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good.

God did not make these objects ex nihilo, rather God made them to do something. Just like I can make a chef to make dinner, or I can make a blacksmith to make metal objects.

Isaiah 54:16 NRSVUE
[16] See, it is I who have created the smith who blows the fire of coals and produces a weapon fit for its purpose; I have also created the ravager to destroy.

When God makes things, it is for purpose. Perhaps it may involve moving things around, such as God moving the waters off the earth (during the earths creation) on day 3. But again, the broader point being that these objects are already present. And God is taking them and He is doing something with them. Making them to do things. Making them into something more than they already are. Giving them meaning and purpose.

It isn't about them appearing into existence out of nothing.

Psalms 51:10 NRSVUE
[10] Create in me a clean heart, O God, and put a new and right spirit within me.

In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth. So it’s clear the heaven and the earth were created when? - In the beginning.

If God said he made the heaven and earth and ALL that is in them in 6 days (Ex 20:11) then either He is lying or a deceiver. Which one is it?

And is Jesus a liar or is he a deceiver when he said man was created in the beginning of creation? (Mark 10:6) There is only one beginning. The beginning is verse 1 in the same event as Adam being created if he was also created in the beginning

2PhiloVoid · 2025-07-23T07:18:04-0500

Platte said:
In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth. So it’s clear the heaven and the earth were created when? - In the beginning.

If God said he made the heaven and earth and ALL that is in them in 6 days (Ex 20:11) then either He is lying or a deceiver. Which one is it?

And is Jesus a liar or is he a deceiver when he said man was created in the beginning of creation? (Mark 10:6) There is only one beginning. The beginning is verse 1 in the same event as Adam being created if he was also created in the beginning

If I talk to my infant child with baby talk, at a level that he can understand but which doesn't actually fully capture the larger experience of reality that I know we live in, is that "lying and deceiving"?

I don't think it is.

Personally, I don't put the weight of meaning on the first verse alone since the issue that the first chapter of Genesis is addressing has little to do with "when" the world was created. If anything, in light of the cosmogonies of the surrounding A.N.E. cultures, the focal point is on the issue of "who made who?" Did the Mystical, Material Universe coagulate and spit out a bunch of gods who then made the world and mankind, or was there only One God who.............made everything else? That's the question being answered in Genesis 1.

But today, with all of our science, we've made a category mistake by thinking Genesis 1 (or 2) is trying to mainly tell us "when" everything was made.

Platte · 2025-07-23T07:48:12-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
If I talk to my infant child with baby talk, at a level that he can understand but which doesn't actually fully capture the larger experience of reality that I know we live in, is that "lying and deceiving"?

I don't think it is.

Personally, I don't put the weight of meaning on the first verse alone since the issue that the first chapter of Genesis is addressing has little to do with "when" the world was created. If anything, in light of the cosmogonies of the surrounding A.N.E. cultures, the focal point is on the issue of "who made who?" Did the Mystical, Material Universe coagulate and spit out a bunch of gods who then made the world and mankind, or was there only One God who.............made everything else? That's the question being answer in Genesis 1.

But today, with all of our science, we've made a category mistake by thinking Genesis 1 (or 2) is trying to mainly tell us "when" everything was made.

The word "All" and the word "Beginning" are not ambiguous.

But I respect your last sentence immensely. If science is the basis for your biblical interpetation then just say so....so we can move on from the theological discussion and have a scienctific discussion.

2PhiloVoid · 2025-07-23T07:53:51-0500

Platte said:
The word "All" and the word "Beginning" are not ambiguous.

But I respect your last sentence immensely. If science is the basis for your biblical interpetation then just say so....so we can move on from the theological discussion and have a scienctific discussion.

Somehow, I think you've misunderstood "all" of what I just said above, reading it in the opposite of my intended meaning.

If you look closely, what I actually implied was, "GOD IS ONE AND IS CREATOR AND LORD OVER ALL...........!!!"

That's the point of Genesis 1.

Job 33:6 · 2025-07-23T07:57:22-0500

Platte said:
In the Beginning God created the heaven and the earth. So it’s clear the heaven and the earth were created when? - In the beginning.

If God said he made the heaven and earth and ALL that is in them in 6 days (Ex 20:11) then either He is lying or a deceiver. Which one is it?

I can bake a batch of cookies in six days, but that doesn’t mean I brought them into existence out of nothing.

This is the kind of category mistake that keeps happening. We’ve looked carefully at the text and its grammar. We’ve considered the cultural and literary context. But rather than allowing the Bible to speak on its own terms, the same misunderstandings are repeated, misunderstandings that reflect a modern framework imposed onto the text.

At this point, your theological system has taken precedence over the Bible itself. The authority is no longer found in what the text says, but in how it has to be interpreted to protect your framework and worldview.

And once that shift has taken place, when the text is no longer allowed to challenge the system, then there’s nothing more to discuss. The Bible has lost its voice in that conversation. The Bible, and what it says, no longer matters.

So I’ll leave it there.

davetaff · 2025-07-23T08:17:58-0500

Hi
Bean thinking if a unbeliever came in here looking for answers I think he would be very disappointed seeing everyone fighting and bickering like little kids in a sand pit who could make the biggest sand castle.
That we have different opinions on how to interpret the scriptures but we must interpret then so that they comply with all of scripture not jest part of it so we should word our answers in a way that is not offensive.

Love and Peace
Dave

Job 33:6 · 2025-07-23T08:22:20-0500

davetaff said:
Hi
Bean thinking if a unbeliever came in here looking for answers I think he would be very disappointed seeing everyone fighting and bickering like little kids in a sand pit who could make the biggest sand castle.
That we have different opinions on how to interpret the scriptures but we must interpret then so that they comply with all of scripture not jest part of it so we should word our answers in a way that is not offensive.

Love and Peace
Dave

Well isn't that the crux of the issue though? I acknowledge ambiguity in the text, that it may be interpreted in a variety of ways, and this doesn't clarify on the matter of the age of the earth.

Yet, the other party says, no, the Bible must absolutely affirm my position, no other option is allowed despite the text clearly being ambiguous.

One side can allow for multiple possibilities, and in that, can allow for us to agree to disagree. While the other side only allows for one reading of the text. How can there be unity if the literalists do not allow for other interpretations?

Platte · 2025-07-23T09:22:34-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
Somehow, I think you've misunderstood "all" of what I just said above, reading it in the opposite of my intended meaning.

If you look closely, what I actually implied was, "GOD IS ONE AND IS CREATOR AND LORD OVER ALL...........!!!"

That's the point of Genesis 1.

Sorry - I believe I did

I guess I was also saying the scriptures I referenced are kid level reading...that was what I meant by "all" and "beginning"

Platte · 2025-07-23T09:38:39-0500

davetaff said:
Hi
Bean thinking if a unbeliever came in here looking for answers I think he would be very disappointed seeing everyone fighting and bickering like little kids in a sand pit who could make the biggest sand castle.
That we have different opinions on how to interpret the scriptures but we must interpret then so that they comply with all of scripture not jest part of it so we should word our answers in a way that is not offensive.

Love and Peace
Dave

There really should be no debate that the Bible teaches that Creation was ~6000 years ago (based on the geneologies) and took 6 days to complete. But I think 2PhiloVoid got it right...many are trying to conform what the Bible says to match what their scientific belief is. Scientific belief that is not based on facts...but on theories.

davetaff · 2025-07-23T10:08:08-0500

Platte said:
There really should be no debate that the Bible teaches that Creation was ~6000 years ago (based on the geneologies) and took 6 days to complete. But I think 2PhiloVoid got it right...many are trying to conform what the Bible says to match what their scientific belief is. Scientific belief that is not based on facts...but on theories.

hi Platte thank you for your reply but if you are right how do you account for God flooding the world and destroying everything he created before the flood

love and peace
Dave

Platte · 2025-07-23T10:15:01-0500

davetaff said:
hi Platte thank you for your reply but if you are right how do you account for God flooding the world and destroying everything he created before the flood

love and peace
Dave

Every living creature who breathed was killed by the flood....Are you asking why would God do that?

davetaff · 2025-07-23T12:19:04-0500

No what I'm asking how do you account for God flooding the world in the last 6000 years.

Love and Peace
Dave

Platte · 2025-07-23T13:45:36-0500

Job 33:6 said:
I can bake a batch of cookies in six days, but that doesn’t mean I brought them into existence out of nothing.

This is the kind of category mistake that keeps happening. We’ve looked carefully at the text and its grammar. We’ve considered the cultural and literary context. But rather than allowing the Bible to speak on its own terms, the same misunderstandings are repeated, misunderstandings that reflect a modern framework imposed onto the text.

At this point, your theological system has taken precedence over the Bible itself. The authority is no longer found in what the text says, but in how it has to be interpreted to protect your framework and worldview.

And once that shift has taken place, when the text is no longer allowed to challenge the system, then there’s nothing more to discuss. The Bible has lost its voice in that conversation. The Bible, and what it says, no longer matters.

So I’ll leave it there.

Have you read Leviticus recently? In its entirety? If you havn't I would strongly recommend it. Don't just glance over it...read it fully - each verse.

It will give you a better understanding of Moses and Genesis. Specifically Moses’s ability to document detailed information that has been given to him directly from God.

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