Flat or round earth -The final experiment.

Phil G said:

Why can you not understand basic Christianity?

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Why can't you ?

David Lamb said:

That doesn't really answer my question, which concerned evidence you have that it is trustworthy source. If you are saying that you have never had any trouble with it because it posts videos that support what you already believe about moon landings, shape of the earth, etc. that is just arguing in circles.

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Why would anyone claim it is untrustworthy ?

Apple Sky said:

Why can't you ?

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Obviously you've no answer, because all you're doing is trying to throw my question back in my face, which doesn't work because it shows you up.

Basic Christianity includes a God given principle of establishing the truth of a matter by two or three witnesses. That has been achieved by the Christian astronauts who testify to the shape of the earth being a globe. Yet you bear false witness against them by claiming that it's just hearsay, which it isn't by the very definition of hearsay. You also deny a clear biblical principle of establishing truth by two or three witnesses.

Apple Sky said:

Why would anyone claim it is untrustworthy ?

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That's not answering the question. Again you're just trying to turn the question around instead of answering it.

Apple Sky said:

Why would anyone claim it is untrustworthy ?

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I am having trouble explaining to you what I mean. I have already said in an earlier post that I know nothing about 153 News. I don't know how trustworthy it is. I am not claiming that it is untrustworthy. That is why I am trying to find out from you whether you have evidence of its trustworthiness.

David Lamb said:

I am having trouble explaining what I mean.

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It's not you. You are explaining yourself perfectly well. Apple is clearly trying to avoid answering.

David Lamb said:

I am having trouble explaining to you what I mean. I have already said in an earlier post that I know nothing about 153 News. I don't know how trustworthy it is. I am not claiming that it is untrustworthy. That is why I am trying to find out from you whether you have evidence of its trustworthiness.

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What do you mean by it's trustworthiness, do you mean is it safe to click on or what ?

Apple Sky said:

What do you mean by it's trustworthiness, do you mean is it safe to click on or what ?

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I would have thought that the context of our discussion would show that I was not talking about internet security, but how trustworthy News 153 is as a source. For example, it posts a video saying that the moon landings were fake. Is that trustworthy, more trustworthy than the Christian testimony of Charles Duke?

Flat or Round Earth? Final Truth from Faith, Science & Scripture​

​

Introduction: Why Are We Still Debating This?​

Let’s be honest—this whole flat Earth vs round Earth debate seems endless, right? You’ve probably heard all kinds of arguments on forums, YouTube, and even in Christian circles. Some folks claim the Bible supports a flat Earth, while others say science has already proven it’s round.


I’ve been there—digging through Scripture, watching those “experiments,” even praying for clarity. So, I decided to write this post for you—to give you a faith-filled, truth-seeking, and science-backed answer to this big question:
Is the Earth flat or round—and does it even matter to our faith?

What Does the Bible Really Say About Earth’s Shape?

Interpreting Scripture the Right Way​

The Bible isn’t a science textbook—but that doesn’t mean it’s silent on creation.

Verses Often Cited by Flat Earth Believers​

• Revelation 7:1 – "Four corners of the Earth"
• Isaiah 40:22 – "He sits above the circle of the Earth"

Flat Earth supporters argue these are literal. But context matters. Revelation is apocalyptic literature—symbolic, not scientific. Isaiah, on the other hand, uses the Hebrew word chug (חוּג), meaning circle, not square or flat plane.


"Circle" suggests roundness—not a flat square.

Hebrew Cosmology vs. Modern Misreadings​

Ancient writers used poetic and visual language to explain what they observed. They weren’t contradicting science—they were simply describing God’s creation through their eyes. And guess what? The idea of a spherical Earth wasn’t foreign to ancient scholars either.

What Does Science Say—And Why Should Christians Care?

Scientific Proof of a Round Earth​

You don’t have to be a NASA scientist to know this. Here’s some basic, observable proof:

Visual and Measurable Evidence​

• Satellite images clearly show a round Earth.
• Ships disappear over the horizon bottom first—not all at once.
• During lunar eclipses, Earth casts a curved shadow on the Moon.
• Time zones only exist because of a curved Earth rotating on its axis.

And let’s not forget gravity—a consistent downward force toward a center point, not a flat underside.

Does Believing the Earth is Round Undermine the Bible?​

Nope. Not even close.


I’ve seen believers worry: "If I accept modern science, am I denying the Bible?"
The answer? Absolutely not. God's Word is spiritually infallible, and the truth of creation shines even brighter when we embrace both Scripture and observable reality.

Faith and Science Aren’t Enemies​

I believe God created this world. The Bible tells us who created the universe—science helps us see how. Together, they reveal a deeper awe for God’s genius.

Flat Earth Claims Debunked—One by One​

Here’s a quick myth-busting table for easy reference:

Common Questions from Christians​

❓ Is it wrong for Christians to believe in a round Earth?​

Not at all. There’s nothing sinful about trusting in observable science.

❓ Does believing in a flat Earth hurt my faith?​

It may not harm your salvation, but it can weaken your credibility as a witness. When we reject clear truth, we can push seekers away.

❓ Should I argue about this with others?​

No need to debate in anger. Instead, offer love, reason, and Scripture.

---

So, What’s the Final Verdict?​

The Earth is round.
And more importantly—God made it.

Whether you’re standing on a beach watching a ship fade over the horizon, or flying in a plane across time zones—you’re experiencing the beautiful, spherical world God designed.

Don’t let bad theology or internet theories distract you from the truth.

David Lamb said:

For example, it posts a video saying that the moon landings were fake. Is that trustworthy, more trustworthy than the Christian testimony of Charles Duke?

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It depends which video you watch.

Apple Sky said:

It depends which video you watch.

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So you don't know how trustworthy 53 News is?

Apple Sky said:

It depends which video you watch.

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It seems the criteria you use in which to decide the trustworthiness of 153 news is whether you agree with the video you're watching or not. That's neither evidence of trustworthiness nor is it even rational.

David Lamb said:

So you don't know how trustworthy 53 News is?

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How trustworthy would you say you-tube is ?

153 News - Because Censorship Kills - Welcome to the Truth​

We are the voice of truth and we refuse to die for a lack of knowledge.

Apple Sky said:

How trustworthy would you say you-tube is ?

153 News - Because Censorship Kills - Welcome to the Truth​

We are the voice of truth and we refuse to die for a lack of knowledge.

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153 news is not the same as YouTube. YouTube allows a variety of videos from a variety of people, some are true, others not. It doesn't claim to be "the voice of truth".

153 news is an anonymous unaccountable source claiming to be "the voice of truth". That's implying that all videos posted are true. Self-proclamation of being the voice of truth is not evidence of trustworthiness. It is merely yet another unsubstantiated claim.

pastorwaris said:

Flat or Round Earth? Final Truth from Faith, Science & Scripture​

​

Introduction: Why Are We Still Debating This?​

Let’s be honest—this whole flat Earth vs round Earth debate seems endless, right? You’ve probably heard all kinds of arguments on forums, YouTube, and even in Christian circles. Some folks claim the Bible supports a flat Earth, while others say science has already proven it’s round.


I’ve been there—digging through Scripture, watching those “experiments,” even praying for clarity. So, I decided to write this post for you—to give you a faith-filled, truth-seeking, and science-backed answer to this big question:
Is the Earth flat or round—and does it even matter to our faith?

What Does the Bible Really Say About Earth’s Shape?

Interpreting Scripture the Right Way​

The Bible isn’t a science textbook—but that doesn’t mean it’s silent on creation.

Verses Often Cited by Flat Earth Believers​

• Revelation 7:1 – "Four corners of the Earth"
• Isaiah 40:22 – "He sits above the circle of the Earth"

Flat Earth supporters argue these are literal. But context matters. Revelation is apocalyptic literature—symbolic, not scientific. Isaiah, on the other hand, uses the Hebrew word chug (חוּג), meaning circle, not square or flat plane.


"Circle" suggests roundness—not a flat square.

Hebrew Cosmology vs. Modern Misreadings​

Ancient writers used poetic and visual language to explain what they observed. They weren’t contradicting science—they were simply describing God’s creation through their eyes. And guess what? The idea of a spherical Earth wasn’t foreign to ancient scholars either.

What Does Science Say—And Why Should Christians Care?

Scientific Proof of a Round Earth​

You don’t have to be a NASA scientist to know this. Here’s some basic, observable proof:

Visual and Measurable Evidence​

• Satellite images clearly show a round Earth.
• Ships disappear over the horizon bottom first—not all at once.
• During lunar eclipses, Earth casts a curved shadow on the Moon.
• Time zones only exist because of a curved Earth rotating on its axis.

And let’s not forget gravity—a consistent downward force toward a center point, not a flat underside.

Does Believing the Earth is Round Undermine the Bible?​

Nope. Not even close.


I’ve seen believers worry: "If I accept modern science, am I denying the Bible?"
The answer? Absolutely not. God's Word is spiritually infallible, and the truth of creation shines even brighter when we embrace both Scripture and observable reality.

Faith and Science Aren’t Enemies​

I believe God created this world. The Bible tells us who created the universe—science helps us see how. Together, they reveal a deeper awe for God’s genius.

Flat Earth Claims Debunked—One by One​

Here’s a quick myth-busting table for easy reference:

Flat Earth Claim	Reality Check
NASA fakes images	Thousands of images from global satellites and telescopes prove otherwise.
Horizon looks flat	Because of Earth’s massive size, curvature is subtle at ground level.
Bible says "four corners"	Figurative language; the Bible often uses metaphors.
No curvature visible from planes	Planes fly too low to see noticeable curvature.

Common Questions from Christians​

❓ Is it wrong for Christians to believe in a round Earth?​

Not at all. There’s nothing sinful about trusting in observable science.

❓ Does believing in a flat Earth hurt my faith?​

It may not harm your salvation, but it can weaken your credibility as a witness. When we reject clear truth, we can push seekers away.

❓ Should I argue about this with others?​

No need to debate in anger. Instead, offer love, reason, and Scripture.

---

So, What’s the Final Verdict?​

The Earth is round.
And more importantly—God made it.

Whether you’re standing on a beach watching a ship fade over the horizon, or flying in a plane across time zones—you’re experiencing the beautiful, spherical world God designed.

Don’t let bad theology or internet theories distract you from the truth.

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I think it is quite clear that at least the Old Testament works with the idea of a flat earth cosmology. For example in Genesis, there is a firmament with stars in it, mentioned.

Rain was supposed to fall through holes in this firmament, the firmament itself was supposed to be supported with high mountains etc. Even the idea that the Babel tower had a potential to reach heavens or the Flood work with that worldview.

And that the Bible works with a flat earth cosmology is a common, mainstream, standard scholarship, there is nothing surprising or extremist about it. You will find it in Biblical dictionaries etc. The issues arise when somebody thinks that the iron age cosmology in the Bible is infallibly inspired by God.

The Flat Earth Solar Eclipse and The Moon Explained​

trophy33 said:

I think it is quite clear that at least the Old Testament works with the idea of a flat earth cosmology. For example in Genesis, there is a firmament with stars in it, mentioned.

Rain was supposed to fall through holes in this firmament, the firmament itself was supposed to be supported with high mountains etc. Even the idea that the Babel tower had a potential to reach heavens or the Flood work with that worldview.

And that the Bible works with a flat earth cosmology is a common, mainstream, standard scholarship, there is nothing surprising or extremist about it. You will find it in Biblical dictionaries etc. The issues arise when somebody thinks that the iron age cosmology in the Bible is infallibly inspired by God.

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Thank you for raising such a thoughtful point this conversation about biblical cosmology is important, especially in an age when faith is often pitted against science or misunderstood through modern lenses.

Let’s break this down honestly and biblically:

1. Context Matters: Ancient Language ≠ Scientific Blueprint​

You're absolutely right that the Old Testament uses language that sounds like flat-earth cosmology terms like “firmament,” “pillars of the earth,” or “windows of heaven.” But here's the key: these are phenomenological expressions the way things appear from a human perspective not technical descriptions of physics or cosmology.

Just like today we say "sunrise" and "sunset," although we know the sun doesn’t revolve around the earth, ancient writers also used language that made sense within their observational framework, not because they were affirming a flat Earth, but because the Bible wasn’t written as a science textbook.

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2. The Bible’s Purpose is Revelation, Not Geophysics​

The Bible is God’s inspired Word, yes but its purpose is spiritual revelation, not scientific explanation. It reveals who God is, who we are, and how we’re to live in relationship to Him.

So, to claim that the Bible "teaches" flat earth is to confuse descriptive language with doctrinal assertion.

Genesis 1, for example, uses the term “raqia” (firmament) which simply means "expanse" or "sky" in Hebrew. It communicates order and purpose in creation, not a hard dome. And “windows of heaven” or “fountains of the deep” are poetic metaphors expressing divine control over nature, not literal plumbing.

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3. Scholarly Opinions Are Diverse, Not Final Authority​

It’s true that some modern scholars interpret ancient biblical cosmology as flat-earth based but that doesn’t make it the final word. In fact, many conservative and even moderate biblical scholars argue that these expressions are theological and literary, not cosmological.

So when someone says, “mainstream scholarship believes X,” we must ask: Which scholars? What assumptions? Because biblical dictionaries and commentaries vary widely depending on theological bias and worldview.

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4. Tower of Babel & The Flood — Not Flat Earth Proofs​

The Tower of Babel wasn’t about trying to physically poke a hole in the sky it was about human rebellion and pride. The narrative teaches the folly of self-glorification and the necessity of God’s intervention, not architecture defying gravity.


Similarly, the Flood narrative is a theological message of judgment and mercy. Ancient flood descriptions don’t imply a belief in a pancake Earth they use cosmic language to convey global consequence and God’s power.

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5. The Real Issue: Trusting God’s Word vs. Filtering It Through Modern Skepticism​

You mentioned the real "issue" is when someone believes this “iron age cosmology” is infallibly inspired. But here's the challenge: Either Scripture is God-breathed (2 Tim 3:16) or it’s just another ancient human document.

You can’t pick and choose which parts are “inspired” and which are “primitive.” If we start calling God’s Word wrong on cosmology, what stops us from questioning it on morality, salvation, or resurrection? The slippery slope is real.

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Final Thought: The Bible Is Timeless Truth in Timely Language​

Rather than reading the Bible through a 21st-century microscope, we should humbly receive its truths as God’s revelation to all people in all times. It was written in ancient cultural frameworks, yes but its truths transcend them.

So no, the Bible doesn't teach flat-earth theory. It teaches something infinitely greater:

That the God who created the heavens and the earth is still sovereign and calling us to walk by faith, not by sight (2 Cor 5:7).

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Blessings as you continue to seek truth with an open heart. The Scriptures always stand up to honest scrutiny—because their foundation isn’t human speculation, but divine revelation.

pastorwaris said:

Just like today we say "sunrise" and "sunset," although we know the sun doesn’t revolve around the earth,

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Oh but it does.

Psalm 19:6
His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.

Ecclesiastes 1:5
The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises.

pastorwaris said:

Genesis 1, for example, uses the term “raqia” (firmament) which simply means "expanse" or "sky"

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The word "raqia" is derived from the verb "raqa," which means to spread out, stretch out, or hammer out.
The clue is in the word 'Firm -ament'.

God doesn't lie or confuse.

Apple Sky said:

The Flat Earth Solar Eclipse and The Moon Explained​

https://153news.net/watch_video.php?v=3HNO1RYYWUX3

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Jesus therefore died on Friday, April 3, AD 33 at about 3 p.m., a few hours before the beginning of Passover day and the Sabbath.

According to the Gospels, the sky darkened for three hours during Jesus's crucifixion, from the sixth to the ninth hour. This event, often referred to as the crucifixion darkness, is interpreted by many Christians as a miraculous sign accompanying Jesus's death. Some scholars have suggested it could be a symbolic representation of God's judgment upon sin or a fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies. Others have proposed it may have been a solar eclipse.

pastorwaris said:

So when someone says, “mainstream scholarship believes X,” we must ask: Which scholars? What assumptions? Because biblical dictionaries and commentaries vary widely depending on theological bias and worldview.

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Universities, standard school system, common seminaries, Bible dictionaries that are scholarly/credible (unbiased religiously), encyclopedias etc. Nobody credible really disputes that the Old Testament works with a flat earth cosmology of its time.

I know the waters are quite blurred in the USA, education there is quite wild and people including you get confused what is actually factual or standard. All kinds of sects and cults can actually start a school, there and call themselves scholars or sell books to millions of people and so become "credible" in the eyes of many.

Here in Europe, education institutes must be properly accredited to be able to teach, so it is much simpler. Those who are not accredited, are obviously not standard or mainstream. In the USA, you must research the background and bias of schools and get more oriented in the chaos.

Regarding encyclopedias, which will be easiest to start with online and for free, you may begin for example here: Biblical cosmology - Wikipedia

pastorwaris said:

You mentioned the real "issue" is when someone believes this “iron age cosmology” is infallibly inspired. But here's the challenge: Either Scripture is God-breathed (2 Tim 3:16) or it’s just another ancient human document.

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This is obviously a logical fallacy - false dichotomy, specifically. It is not "either - or" dilemma. Some parts can be inspired and some parts can be a human document. Or it can be all human document with some inspired thoughts. Or only the Christological direction is inspired. Or only theological basics like monotheism, salvation and moral life. Etc, plenty of possibilities.

It is very easy to demonstrate that Bible was not inspired word for word or anything like that. I can do it very easily, but people always run away without actually changing their claims. Or get angry (scared?) and stop talking rationally.