How Does Dismantling LBJ's Great Society Make America Great Again? (Ans. It doesn't.)

rjs330 · Saturday at 10:52 PM

Fantine said:
There has been a huge effort by the right to turn college into a "trade school." I think it's because they don't want a citizenry that actively engages with the information (and sometimes disinformation) they provide. An uneducated citizenry is more gullible, less critical.

There has? Who exactly has been doing that? I dont know of anyone doing that.
An educated citizenry is important. An indoctrinated citizenry is ignorant.

Larniavc · Sunday at 4:22 AM

Fervent said:
And many who do take it as a point of pride, the good ol' "protestant work ethic"

The American Dream is simply a way to keep people on the treadmill:

“Keep working yourself to death (for me) and one day you too will be a billionaire.”

RDKirk · Sunday at 7:36 AM

Fantine said:
There has been a huge effort by the right to turn college into a "trade school." I think it's because they don't want a citizenry that actively engages with the information (and sometimes disinformation) they provide. An uneducated citizenry is more gullible, less critical.

That's because most people are going to need to work for a living, and and yet, they're being pushed to get a bachelor's degree.

Even as a college graduate, I'm rather offended that you believe a person in a trade is necessarily uneducated, more gullible, and less critical. Some of the most gullible people I see are college graduates. That's an elitist mindset if I've ever heard of one.

RDKirk · Sunday at 7:37 AM

Fervent said:
IME, education has primarily been focused on teaching the pupils what to think rather than how to think. Particularly my experiences at college there was a distinct pressure from both professors and peers to accept a largely "liberal" ideology and my pragmatic concerns about things like fiscal responsibility always got me scorn. The right tends to be more pragmatic, looking at trivial little things like how someone is going to provide for themselves and their families rather than reaching for lofty ambitions of generalized education. I suppose it is far harder to stage a revolution when you're worried about where your next meal is going to come from, so it must be nice to be able to not worry about such pragmatic concerns. Quite the privilege.

I've seen that.

They're not teaching.

They're preaching.

RDKirk · Sunday at 7:39 AM

Fantine said:
I might have gone to college before you were born. It was in NYC during the Vietnam War years, so of course everyone was liberal. Kent State occurred a month before I got married, and a few of my professors cancelled their classes for the rest of the semester because they refused to teach in a police state. (If they were still teaching today they'd be totally horrified at the state of our nation.) They gave everyone in the class an A. I would have gotten A's anyway and TBT I was just happy to have more time to plan my wedding.
I also took a class on Middle Eastern literature. Although I had many Jewish friends in college I never thought very deeply about Israel. We had the Vietnam War and Nixon and so many other catastrophes to think about (and my fiance was a Vietnam vet going to school on the GI Bill.) I learned so much about Middle Eastern culture and values although I can't remember exactly what books we'd read anymore. It was the end of my senior year and, having fulfilled all my requirements, I just chose it for fun.
Having spent 12 years in Catholic school, I knew what indoctrination was like first hand. I never felt any indoctrination in college. Professors might have their own ideas, but they never told us we'd go to hell if we thought differently LOL. They encouraged us to have our own ideas.

Your concept of "indoctrination" is narrow.

You think you know what indoctrination is.

The best indoctrination is painless.

Belk · Sunday at 9:07 AM

rjs330 said:
Smoking weed is not a felony anywhere that I've heard of.

It's a schedule 1 narcotic. It's no different then crack or heroine in the eyes of the law. It varies greatly by state but per federal law second offense is a felony with two years prison time.

BCP1928 · Sunday at 10:19 AM

rjs330 said:
There has? Who exactly has been doing that? I dont know of anyone doing that.
An educated citizenry is important. An indoctrinated citizenry is ignorant.

No, universities have become just "job colleges" for many people in recent times. It's regrettable, but there is no one person or political policy at fault. The sense now though is that conservatives would like them to be nothing else.

rjs330 · Sunday at 11:40 AM

Belk said:
It's a schedule 1 narcotic. It's no different then crack or heroine in the eyes of the law. It varies greatly by state but per federal law second offense is a felony with two years prison time.

Yes it is, but Ive still never heard of anyone being charged with a felony and sent to prison for smoking weed.

The feds dont send someone to prison either for it. They might if you are transporting weed in large quantities.

But certainly not for having a dime bag for personal use.

Fantine · Sunday at 11:53 AM

RDKirk said:
That's because most people are going to need to work for a living, and and yet, they're being pushed to get a bachelor's degree.

Even as a college graduate, I'm rather offended that you believe a person in a trade is necessarily uneducated, more gullible, and less critical. Some of the most gullible people I see are college graduates. That's an elitist mindset if I've ever heard of one.

I respect everyone. I learn from everyone. I am especially impressed by people who have talents I don't possess and they include most repairmen, builders, and crafters. It's an indictment on our society that most people never read a book after they graduate from school. The world of ideas is so exciting and enriching. We learn from both information and experience.

SavedByGrace3 · Sunday at 12:25 PM

Fantine said:
There has been a huge effort by the right to turn college into a "trade school." I think it's because they don't want a citizenry that actively engages with the information (and sometimes disinformation) they provide. An uneducated citizenry is more gullible, less critical.

I think people are genuinely concerned that young people (and their parents) are being hoodwinked into buying very expensive/useless degrees that lead to no job. Then, there is a move to ask taxpayers to pay off these unemployed college graduates' loans. The gullibility comes when students are taught nonsense, falsities, and outright lies and go out into the world pushing the same. I went to a trade school (community college) for 2 years and got a degree in computer programming. I had a job before graduating, quadrupling my pay before retiring 20 years later as a systems engineer. So, there are practical benefits to "trade schools" because they have a very high percentage of job placement in areas that benefit culture and the nation. I have 3 sons and a daughter who were home-schooled, attended community college, and are all into 6-figure careers in the high-tech industry. They all had their education paid for before they even graduated. I have a daughter-in-law who got a 4-year degree from a university. While employed, she never made close to 6 figures, and is currently unemployed. Last I heard, she is still paying for her degree, years later.
So this is not some right-wing conspiracy against higher education. Education is evolving, and perhaps the days of four- and six-year degrees are coming to an end. They no longer serve a purpose in a changing world. The left is resisting this change and does not want to move forward. Some careers may require extensive education. But your average person does not benefit from a 200 thousand dollar education. Yes, give me a trade school any day.

Belk · Sunday at 12:33 PM

rjs330 said:
Yes it is, but Ive still never heard of anyone being charged with a felony and sent to prison for smoking weed.

The feds dont send someone to prison either for it. They might if you are transporting weed in large quantities.

But certainly not for having a dime bag for personal use.

That you have not heard of something is the definition of an argument from ignorance. Best guesstimate I could find is 40K based on simple possession.

Exactly How Many People Are Locked Up For Weed?

Last Prisoner Project dives into different data sources to estimate the number of people currently incarcerated for cannabis.

www.lastprisonerproject.org

Always in His Presence · Sunday at 3:13 PM

rjs330 said:
There has? Who exactly has been doing that? I dont know of anyone doing that.
An educated citizenry is important. An indoctrinated citizenry is ignorant.

QFT

Fervent · Sunday at 3:26 PM

SavedByGrace3 said:
I think people are genuinely concerned that young people (and their parents) are being hoodwinked into buying very expensive/useless degrees that lead to no job. Then, there is a move to ask taxpayers to pay off these unemployed college graduates' loans. The gullibility comes when students are taught nonsense, falsities, and outright lies and go out into the world pushing the same. I went to a trade school (community college) for 2 years and got a degree in computer programming. I had a job before graduating, quadrupling my pay before retiring 20 years later as a systems engineer. So, there are practical benefits to "trade schools" because they have a very high percentage of job placement in areas that benefit culture and the nation. I have 3 sons and a daughter who were home-schooled, attended community college, and are all into 6-figure careers in the high-tech industry. They all had their education paid for before they even graduated. I have a daughter-in-law who got a 4-year degree from a university. While employed, she never made close to 6 figures, and is currently unemployed. Last I heard, she is still paying for her degree, years later.
So this is not some right-wing conspiracy against higher education. Education is evolving, and perhaps the days of four- and six-year degrees are coming to an end. They no longer serve a purpose in a changing world. The left is resisting this change and does not want to move forward. Some careers may require extensive education. But your average person does not benefit from a 200 thousand dollar education. Yes, give me a trade school any day.

To double down on this, what you are paying for with a university education is not the learning itself as most will allow you to audit certain classes and all have in-house credit requirements for transfers that do not necessarily reflect a deeper level of knowledge. What you are paying for is the stamp of approval, and employers are finding less and less value in that stamp of approval while pressures to pursue those stamps of approval are increasing in a lot of primary and secondary educational institutions. That trade schools are presented as being less-than a university education is pure propaganda, and it is far too easy for indoctrination to pass for education which is why we see universities as hotbeds for very specific forms of political development rather than fostering a diverse body of perspectives.

rjs330 · Sunday at 4:40 PM

Belk said:
That you have not heard of something is the definition of an argument from ignorance. Best guesstimate I could find is 40K based on simple possession.

Exactly How Many People Are Locked Up For Weed?

Last Prisoner Project dives into different data sources to estimate the number of people currently incarcerated for cannabis.

www.lastprisonerproject.org

Thats local jails for misdemeanor arrests. Thats not prison for felonies. No one is in prison for smoking weed.

In some states weed is still illegal. So what if you are in the local slammer for it. Its illegal. If you want a discussion on whether ir not weed should be legalized take it up with your local legislators.

Prisons are state or federal prisons for state felonies or Federal offenses.

No one is in prison for smoking weed.

Belk · Sunday at 4:42 PM

rjs330 said:
Thats local jails for misdemeanor arrests. Thats not prison for felonies. No one is in prison for smoking weed.

In some states weed is still illegal. So what if you are in the local slammer for it. Its illegal. If you want a discussion on whether ir not weed should be legalized take it up with your local legislators.

Prisons are state or federal prisons for state felonies or Federal offenses.

No one is in prison for smoking weed.

No, those numbers are based on long term confinement and specifically exclude those localy jailed for misdemeanors which is part of why the guesstimate is so low.

The most glaring issue centers around “who” they define as a cannabis prisoner. Both reports only speak to the number of people held in long-term confinement in state and federal facilities. They do not account for the following categories of people.

people incarcerated in local and county jails (a significant number, given that there were 545,602 arrests for cannabis in 2019).

How Does Dismantling LBJ's Great Society Make America Great Again? (Ans. It doesn't.)

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