Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 25, 2025

keras said:
The blind leading the blind, will end up ?

Keras, the Preterists are the blind. You didn't see that "the woman" is a biblical phrase that means "Israel." You didn't see the two groups delineated in Rev 3:10 ("you" and "those"). You have quips; we who accept the Bible for what it says, have the facts.

Douggg · Apr 26, 2025

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Doug, I do tend to lean toward Satan indwelling the AC. However, in Rev 12, Satan is Satan as the one chasing "the woman." Rev 12:13 (ESV): And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.

Jeffrey,

I would agree that Satan will empower and put ideas into Antichrist's head. But Satan will not literally be indwelling either beast-king (the Antichrist) nor false prophet.

Satan will be indwelling the statue image.

The beast-king (the Antichrist) and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire when Jesus returns in Revelation 19:19.

Differently, the statue image that Satan will be indwelling, Jesus will cause that statue image to go up in flames, turned to ashes (Ezekiel 28:16-19). And Satan will be exposed. And then cast into the bottomless pit in Revelation 20:1-3.

Jeffrey Bowden · Apr 28, 2025

Douggg said:
Jeffrey,

I would agree that Satan will empower and put ideas into Antichrist's head. But Satan will not literally be indwelling either beast-king (the Antichrist) nor false prophet.

Satan will be indwelling the statue image.

The beast-king (the Antichrist) and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire when Jesus returns in Revelation 19:19.

Differently, the statue image that Satan will be indwelling, Jesus will cause that statue image to go up in flames, turned to ashes (Ezekiel 28:16-19). And Satan will be exposed. And then cast into the bottomless pit in Revelation 20:1-3.

View attachment 364089

Doug, Satan has many evil demons that work with him. It is the beast in Rev 13:1-10 that indwells the AC. The beast in Rev 13:11-18 indwells the false prophet.

Douggg · Wednesday at 8:58 PM

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Doug, Satan has many evil demons that work with him. It is the beast in Rev 13:1-10 that indwells the AC. The beast in Rev 13:11-18 indwells the false prophet.

Hi Jeffrey, the word "demons" "demon" is not found in the KJV. Instead, the term is "unclean spirit(s)".

UNCLEAN SPIRITS IN THE BIBLE

See 'unclean spirits' instances in the King James Version (KJV).

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Their origin is not specifically stated. Some think they are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim hybrids that came about by fallen angels having sex with human women.

Those unclean spirits due to their evil sinful nature seek to indwell living creatures such as humans to torment them and affect their thoughts and behavior.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Revelation 13:1-10 the beast out of the sea refers to the kingdom of the beast person, and the beast person himself.

In Revelation 13:11-18 the beast out of the earth is a referral to the false prophet person.

"out of the sea" is generally considered to mean "out of the nations".
"out of the earth" is generally considered to mean "out of Israel"

It does say in Revelation 16:13-14...

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So, I did a word search in the KJV for "devils".

DEVILS IN THE BIBLE

See 'devils' instances in the King James Version (KJV).

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

My conclusion from those passages in the search is the "unclean spirits" is a term for spiritual beings not having physical bodies of their own, called "devils". I am not sure about the origin of those spiritual beings. It could be the basis for another discussion thread, should anyone want to create one.

I don't think though that the "beast" referrals in Revelation 13 is referring to devils that will indwell the beast-king (the Antichrist) and false prophet.

Jeffrey Bowden · Thursday at 3:49 AM

Douggg said:
Hi Jeffrey, the word "demons" "demon" is not found in the KJV. Instead, the term is "unclean spirit(s)".

UNCLEAN SPIRITS IN THE BIBLE

See 'unclean spirits' instances in the King James Version (KJV).

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Their origin is not specifically stated. Some think they are disembodied spirits of the Nephilim hybrids that came about by fallen angels having sex with human women.

Those unclean spirits due to their evil sinful nature seek to indwell living creatures such as humans to torment them and affect their thoughts and behavior.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Revelation 13:1-10 the beast out of the sea refers to the kingdom of the beast person, and the beast person himself.

In Revelation 13:11-18 the beast out of the earth is a referral to the false prophet person.

"out of the sea" is generally considered to mean "out of the nations".
"out of the earth" is generally considered to mean "out of Israel"

It does say in Revelation 16:13-14...

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

So, I did a word search in the KJV for "devils".

DEVILS IN THE BIBLE

See 'devils' instances in the King James Version (KJV).

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

My conclusion from those passages in the search is the "unclean spirits" is a term for spiritual beings not having physical bodies of their own, called "devils". I am not sure about the origin of those spiritual beings. It could be the basis for another discussion thread, should anyone want to create one.

I don't think though that the "beast" referrals in Revelation 13 is referring to devils that will indwell the beast-king (the Antichrist) and false prophet.

The AC is meant to appear as Jesus. His entrance on the world stage is on a white horse (Rev 6:1-2), just as Jesus will do in His 2nd Advent (Rev 19:11).

The crucified and resurrected Jesus is the trickier deception. The human AC can’t do it. Therefore, there must be a demon who possesses the AC who can appear to have suffered a lethal head wound, but who now lives again as the crucified and resurrected Jesus. We find that in Rev 13:3. Therein, the indwelt AC is appearing as the resurrected Jesus.

The false prophet is also human but has extraordinary powers (Rev 13:13-14). Those extraordinary powers result from being indwelt by the second beast.

Douggg · Thursday at 7:46 AM

Jeffrey Bowden said:
The AC is meant to appear as Jesus. His entrance on the world stage is on a white horse (Rev 6:1-2), just as Jesus will do in His 2nd Advent (Rev 19:11).

I think the AC will be a person mistaken by the Jews as their king of Israel messiah. I don't think he will be considered Jesus, but instead will speak against Jesus being the true messiah.

I do agree that Revelation 6:1-2 is referring to the Antichrist person. And the crown that he will be given will be as the king of Israel (for a while, until he reveals himself to be the man of sin of 2Thessalonians3:4.).

Jeffrey Bowden said:
The crucified and resurrected Jesus is the trickier deception. The human AC can’t do it. Therefore, there must be a demon who possesses the AC who can appear to have suffered a lethal head wound, but who now lives again as the crucified and resurrected Jesus. We find that in Rev 13:3. Therein, the indwelt AC is appearing as the resurrected Jesus.

The mortally wounded but healed head in Revelation 13 represents when the revealed man of sin is assassinated (Ezekiel 28:1-10) and then after a few days is brought back to life (Isaiah 14:18-20) to become the beast king.

He will be become possessed upon coming back to life - by the disembodied spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast. Second illustration below.

Jeffrey Bowden · Friday at 7:46 PM

Douggg said:
I think the AC will be a person mistaken by the Jews as their king of Israel messiah. I don't think he will be considered Jesus, but instead will speak against Jesus being the true messiah.

I do agree that Revelation 6:1-2 is referring to the Antichrist person. And the crown that he will be given will be as the king of Israel (for a while, until he reveals himself to be the man of sin of 2Thessalonians3:4.).

The mortally wounded but healed head in Revelation 13 represents when the revealed man of sin is assassinated (Ezekiel 28:1-10) and then after a few days is brought back to life (Isaiah 14:18-20) to become the beast king.

He will be become possessed upon coming back to life - by the disembodied spirit of the garden of Eden serpent beast. Second illustration below.

View attachment 364284

View attachment 364285

View attachment 364286

True or false? The first beast in Rev 13 indwells the AC.

True or false? The second beast in Rev 13 indwells the false prophet.

Douggg · Saturday at 5:48 PM

Douggg · Saturday at 5:54 PM

Jeffrey Bowden said:
True or false? The first beast in Rev 13 indwells the AC.

True or false? The second beast in Rev 13 indwells the false prophet.

false (incorrect) to both.

The first beast is the Antichrist person in his final stage of evolving.

The five stages of the person's evolving are...

1. as the little horn
2. as the prince who shall come
3. as the Antichrist
4. as the revealed man of sin
5. as the beast - king

The second beast is the false prophet person.

Jeffrey Bowden · Saturday at 7:18 PM

Douggg said:
false (incorrect) to both.

The first beast is the Antichrist person in his final stage of evolving.

The five stages of the person's evolving are...

1. as the little horn
2. as the prince who shall come
3. as the Antichrist
4. as the revealed man of sin
5. as the beast - king

The second beast is the false prophet person.

If Rev 13:3, how do you explain the mortal wound that healed in the human AC? How do you explain the extraordinary powers of the human false prophet in Rev 13:13-14?

Douggg · Saturday at 9:19 PM

Jeffrey Bowden said:
If Rev 13:3, how do you explain the mortal wound that healed in the human AC? How do you explain the extraordinary powers of the human false prophet in Rev 13:13-14?

Jeffery, the beast out of the sea represents both the kingdom of the beast-king and the beast-king himself. I will explain at the bottom of this post how becomes king (dictator) over that kingdom.

The beast king is the mortally wounded but healed head (of the seven heads).

The seven heads are a series of Julio-Claudian blood line kings.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero
7. the end times little horn person.

The end times little horn person will be assassinated (mortally wounded) around 3 years into the 7 year 70th week. The reason for him being assassinated is because he will go into the temple (to be built), sit, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

That act will anger God. And it says in Ezekiel 28:1-10, that God has strangers come against him and assassinate him. He will be dead for a week, while his soul in hell, mocked. Then, before he is buried, still in a casket during the funeral proceedings, God will return his soul back to his body - bringing the person back to life. Isaiah 14:18-20.

God will do that because God will have great disdain for the person (a Jew who will betray his own people) who sells out to Satan, and God will not allow him the honor of being buried in an ornate tomb.

Also, God will bring the person back to life as strong delusion to those persons on earth will have believed his lie of having achieved God-hood. 2Thessalonians2:11-12.

When the person comes back to life (his mortal wound healed), he then becomes the beast-king. "king" because in Revelation 17:`7, the ten kings (leaders of the EU) will give their kingdom over to him.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The kingdom of the beast will be the EU in its final form. The beast person himself will become dictator over the EU.

Differently, during his Antichrist stage (temporary), he will be the king of Israel, thought to be messiah.

Douggg · Saturday at 9:37 PM

Jeffrey Bowden said:
If Rev 13:3, how do you explain the mortal wound that healed in the human AC? How do you explain the extraordinary powers of the human false prophet in Rev 13:13-14?

The false prophet will be able to do the miracles because they will acts of deception involving Satan.

The false prophet will do those miracles in the presence of the beast-king. In the presence of the beast-king because of what it says in Revelation 19:20.

20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

That Satan will be involved in the miracles is foretold in 2Thessalonians2:

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

So the extraordinary powers that the false prophet will display will be because Satan being involved in the deceptions.

Jeffrey Bowden · 2025-05-04T01:50:12-0500

Douggg said:
Jeffery, the beast out of the sea represents both the kingdom of the beast-king and the beast-king himself. I will explain at the bottom of this post how becomes king (dictator) over that kingdom.

The beast king is the mortally wounded but healed head (of the seven heads).

The seven heads are a series of Julio-Claudian blood line kings.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero
7. the end times little horn person.

The end times little horn person will be assassinated (mortally wounded) around 3 years into the 7 year 70th week. The reason for him being assassinated is because he will go into the temple (to be built), sit, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

That act will anger God. And it says in Ezekiel 28:1-10, that God has strangers come against him and assassinate him. He will be dead for a week, while his soul in hell, mocked. Then, before he is buried, still in a casket during the funeral proceedings, God will return his soul back to his body - bringing the person back to life. Isaiah 14:18-20.

God will do that because God will have great disdain for the person (a Jew who will betray his own people) who sells out to Satan, and God will not allow him the honor of being buried in an ornate tomb.

Also, God will bring the person back to life as strong delusion to those persons on earth will have believed his lie of having achieved God-hood. 2Thessalonians2:11-12.

When the person comes back to life (his mortal wound healed), he then becomes the beast-king. "king" because in Revelation 17:`7, the ten kings (leaders of the EU) will give their kingdom over to him.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The kingdom of the beast will be the EU in its final form. The beast person himself will become dictator over the EU.

Differently, during his Antichrist stage (temporary), he will be the king of Israel, thought to be messiah.

View attachment 364482

Doug, you are quoting verses out of context (Ezekiel 28:1-10 and Isaiah 14:18-20). They have no connection to your claims.

In Rev 13, two beasts (sent by Satan) indwell the AC and the false prophet.

The indwelling of the AC: Rev 13:5-6 (ESV): And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months. 6 It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling, that is, those who dwell in heaven. 7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,

The indwelling of the false prophet: Rev 13:13-14 (ESV): It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, 14 and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

The AC and false prophet are humans and they are indwelt by beasts sent by Satan (who controls millions of beasts). The AC and false prophet have super powers to deceive and make the AC appear all-powerful.

Douggg · 2025-05-04T05:48:13-0500

Jeffrey Bowden said:
The indwelling of the false prophet: Rev 13:13-14 (ESV): It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people, 14 and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

Jeffery, if an image is made of the beast that is wounded by the sword and yet lived - then that beast has to be visible. If the beast were a demon (as you are saying) indwelling a human - then that beast (demon) could not be seen outwardly, as it would be inside the human.

The image will be that of a human, called the beast. Not an image of a demon, called the beast.

Also, the number of the beast is that of a man, not the number of a demon. Revelation 13:18

Jeffrey Bowden · 2025-05-04T18:35:15-0500

Douggg said:
Jeffery, the beast out of the sea represents both the kingdom of the beast-king and the beast-king himself. I will explain at the bottom of this post how becomes king (dictator) over that kingdom.

The beast king is the mortally wounded but healed head (of the seven heads).

The seven heads are a series of Julio-Claudian blood line kings.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius
6. Nero
7. the end times little horn person.

The end times little horn person will be assassinated (mortally wounded) around 3 years into the 7 year 70th week. The reason for him being assassinated is because he will go into the temple (to be built), sit, claiming to have achieved God-hood.

That act will anger God. And it says in Ezekiel 28:1-10, that God has strangers come against him and assassinate him. He will be dead for a week, while his soul in hell, mocked. Then, before he is buried, still in a casket during the funeral proceedings, God will return his soul back to his body - bringing the person back to life. Isaiah 14:18-20.

God will do that because God will have great disdain for the person (a Jew who will betray his own people) who sells out to Satan, and God will not allow him the honor of being buried in an ornate tomb.

Also, God will bring the person back to life as strong delusion to those persons on earth will have believed his lie of having achieved God-hood. 2Thessalonians2:11-12.

When the person comes back to life (his mortal wound healed), he then becomes the beast-king. "king" because in Revelation 17:`7, the ten kings (leaders of the EU) will give their kingdom over to him.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

The kingdom of the beast will be the EU in its final form. The beast person himself will become dictator over the EU.

Differently, during his Antichrist stage (temporary), he will be the king of Israel, thought to be messiah.

View attachment 364482

Your premise is full of holes.

Ezekiel's prophecies span from 593 BC to 571 BC, a period of about 22 years, with his ministry beginning in 593 BC. Ezekiel 28 has nothing to do with the future Trib. Therefore it has nothing to do with the AC.

The beasts in Rev 13 are proven in my last reply, to control the behavior snd statements of the AC and the false prophet. The human AC will have no ability to sustain a lethal wound, then make that wound heal allowing the AC to rise from the dead. That is all controlled by the indwelt beast. The human false prophet will have no ability to perform his amazing feats. They are all controlled and carried out by the indwelt beast.

Douggg · 2025-05-04T23:28:34-0500

Jeffrey Bowden said:
Ezekiel's prophecies span from 593 BC to 571 BC, a period of about 22 years, with his ministry beginning in 593 BC. Ezekiel 28 has nothing to do with the future Trib. Therefore it has nothing to do with the AC.

Ezekiel 28:1-10 is addressed to the prince of Tyre - a code name for the Antichrist person.
Ezekiel 28:12-19 is addressed to the king of Tyrus - a code name for Satan.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

In 2Thessalonians2:3-4, we read....

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

------------------------------------------------------

So Ezekiel 28-2 and 2Thessalonians2:4 is about the person sitting in the place reserved for God... making the claim of having achieved God-hood.

Douggg · 2025-05-04T23:29:58-0500

Jeffrey Bowden said:
The human AC will have no ability to sustain a lethal wound, then make that wound heal allowing the AC to rise from the dead.

A demon does not have the power to bring the person back to life.

Jeffrey Bowden · 2025-05-05T09:06:22-0500

Douggg said:
Ezekiel 28:1-10 is addressed to the prince of Tyre - a code name for the Antichrist person.
Ezekiel 28:12-19 is addressed to the king of Tyrus - a code name for Satan.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

In 2Thessalonians2:3-4, we read....

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

------------------------------------------------------

So Ezekiel 28-2 and 2Thessalonians2:4 is about the person sitting in the place reserved for God... making the claim of having achieved God-hood.

Douggg said:
A demon does not have the power to bring the person back to life.

You are falling for the FAKE “death and resurrection” of the AC. Both events are FAKE!

Therefore, it is true there that all the “feats” accomplished by the AC and the false prophet are accomplished only through the beasts that indwell them.

Douggg · 2025-05-05T10:21:24-0500

Jeffrey Bowden said:
You are falling for the FAKE “death and resurrection” of the AC. Both events are FAKE!

Therefore, it is true there that all the “feats” accomplished by the AC and the false prophet are accomplished only through the beasts that indwell them.

Jeffrey, the bible does not say "fake". That is your insertion.

I explained why the person will be killed and why he will be brought back to life.

Why do you think that the person will be mortally wounded to death ?

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Jeffrey Bowden · 2025-05-05T12:32:32-0500

Douggg said:
Jeffrey, the bible does not say "fake". That is your insertion.

I explained why the person will be killed and why he will be brought back to life.

Why do you think that the person will be mortally wounded to death ?

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Prove to me the AC was really killed.

Where is the Great Multitude from Rev 7:13,14

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