Revelation 11 and Revelation 12

Douggg

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Here is my side by side table that I made comparing the verses in Revelation 11 to the verses in Revelations 12. I made the table in two parts to cover all the verses. The 7th trumpet sounds, resulting in the third woe - Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left. Basically the second half of the 7 years.


Revelation 11 and 12.jpg

Revelation 11 and 12.j part 2.jpg
 
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Douggg

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please refresh your screen, I was doing some editing that was probably the cause of it not showing.

I think the table is very useful for showing what are first half actions and what are second half actions and what is the third woe.
 
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keras

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Here is my side by side table that I made comparing the verses in Revelation 11 to the verses in Revelations 12. I made the table in two parts to cover all the verses. The 7th trumpet sounds, resulting in the third woe - Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left. Basically the second half of the 7 years.
I disagree. It is plain to me that the 2 Witnesses will preach during the final 1260 days. When Jesus Returns, they will rise to meet Him, along with all the other GT martyrs, Rev 20:4, and those who are alive and remain: Christians who have proved their faith by enduring unto the end. 1 Thess 4:17

The first half of the 70th period of 7 years, culminating in the glorious Return, will be calm and peaceful as the treaty of Daniel 8:27 is kept by both sides. No prophecy mentions this half.
Zechariah 14:1-2 graphically describes how the leader of the rest of the world, will suddenly break the treaty, at the mid point and conquer the holy Christian peoples and is then revealed as the Anti-Christ; as the 'beast', as Satan. Revelation 13
 
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Douggg

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I disagree. It is plain to me that the 2 Witnesses will preach during the final 1260 days. When Jesus Returns, they will rise to meet Him, along with all the other GT martyrs, Rev 20:4, and those who are alive and remain: Christians who have proved their faith by enduring unto the end. 1 Thess 4:17

The first half of the 70th period of 7 years, culminating in the glorious Return, will be calm and peaceful as the treaty of Daniel 8:27 is kept by both sides. No prophecy mentions this half.
Zechariah 14:1-2 graphically describes how the leader of the rest of the world, will suddenly break the treaty, at the mid point and conquer the holy Christian peoples and is then revealed as the Anti-Christ; as the 'beast', as Satan. Revelation 13
The one thousand two hundred and three score days of the two witnesses is matched in Revelation 12:6.

Revelation 12;6 is before Satan is cast down to earth having but a time/times/half time left in Revelation 12:14.

Also the third woe of the seventh angel sounding in Revelation 11:14-15 is after the two witnesses are called up to heaven. "Come up hither", the same expression that John in Revelation 4 was up to heaven where God's throne is.
 
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Douggg

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Zechariah 14:1-2 graphically describes how the leader of the rest of the world, will suddenly break the treaty, at the mid point and conquer the holy Christian peoples and is then revealed as the Anti-Christ; as the 'beast', as Satan. Revelation 13
The Antichrist who later becomes the beast-king is a separate individual than Satan.

When Jesus returns, the beast-king and the false prophet cast into the lake of fire.

Differently, Satan cast into the bottomless pit prison for a thousand years. Then released for a short time. And then Satan too will be cast into the lake of fire, like the beast-king and false prophet who preceded him to that destination.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

keras, I thought you understood those things.
 
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keras

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The one thousand two hundred and three score days of the two witnesses is matched in Revelation 12:6.
Rev 12:6 refers to the second half of the final seven years. Proved by Rev 12:14, - the same people group.
The Antichrist who later becomes the beast-king is a separate individual than Satan.
The leader of the rest of the world, will be empowered by Satan. Rev 13:4
Basically, he will become a Satanic entity. He will be thrown into the sulphurous flames, as described in Rev 19:20
keras, I thought you understood those things.
You know these things, so how is it that you still believe in a rapture to heaven of the Christians, when Revelation12 plainly tells us about the Chrisian peoples on earth; up to the Day Jesus Returns?
 
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Douggg

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From your chart, are you showing that the gray areas happened in the first century?

E.g., Revelation 12:1?
Yes. Revelation 12:1-5. btw. thanks for understanding my color coding scheme in the side margins.
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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The leader of the rest of the world, will be empowered by Satan. Rev 13:4
Basically, he will become a Satanic entity. He will be thrown into the sulphurous flames, as described in Rev 19:20
I don't see any disagreement here. However the disconnect I see is the acknowledgement that Satan is a separate entity from the Antichrist. Iron sharpens iron brothers. :)
 
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Here is my side by side table that I made comparing the verses in Revelation 11 to the verses in Revelations 12. I made the table in two parts to cover all the verses. The 7th trumpet sounds, resulting in the third woe - Satan cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left. Basically the second half of the 7 years.


View attachment 348544
View attachment 348542
Hebrews 2:2 For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, 4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.​
Your description of the timing is not correct. When we see the 'sign of the red dragon' that is the last woe and correlates to the third thing that 'Israel' will encounter when they are tempted to go into spiritual Egypt.

Isaiah 30: 1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the Lord, “who carry out a plan, but not mine, and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit, that they may add sin to sin; 2 who set out to go down to Egypt, without asking for my direction, to take refuge in the protection of Pharaoh and to seek shelter in the shadow of Egypt! 3 Therefore shall the protection of Pharaoh turn to your shame, and the shelter in the shadow of Egypt to your humiliation. 4 For though his officials are at Zoan and his envoys reach Hanes, 5 everyone comes to shame through a people that cannot profit them, that brings neither help nor profit, but shame and disgrace.”​
6 An oracle on the beasts of the Negeb. Through a land of trouble and anguish, from where come the lioness and the lion, the adder and the flying fiery serpent, they carry their riches on the backs of donkeys, and their treasures on the humps of camels, to a people that cannot profit them. 7 Egypt’s help is worthless and empty; therefore I have called her “Rahab who sits still.” 8 And now, go, write it before them on a tablet and inscribe it in a book, that it may be for the time to come as a witness forever.​


Isaiah 31:1 Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help and rely on horses, who trust in chariots because they are many and in horsemen because they are very strong, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel or consult the Lord!​
Revelation 8:13 Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!”​



This ‘witness’ is a sign to Israel that records the ‘travel’ of ‘Israel’ into spiritual Egypt. The Negeb is in southern Judea whereby one would travel to get to Egypt. A portion of ‘Israel’ is trying to ‘return to Egypt’, the place that God had rescued them from. The ‘oracle’/ prophecy is that on this journey to Egypt they would encounter:
  • 1) lions,
  • 2) adders, and
  • 3) the ‘flying fiery serpent’.

We see this spiritually in each of the three woes (the 5th, 6th & 7th Trumpet, respectively).

Thus, ‘Israel’ has a temptation to go to spiritual Egypt, back into spiritual slavery. In Isaiah 30:6 above we saw the lion, adder (snake), and flying fiery serpent.

In Revelation, we see that
  • the locusts of the 5th Trumpet (1st woe) have ‘lion’s teeth’ (Rev 9:8),
  • the horses of the 6th Trumpet (2nd woe) have ‘tails like serpents with heads’ (Rev 9:19),
  • and at the 7th Trumpet (3rd woe) we see the ‘flying fiery serpent’ = the ‘sign of the red dragon in heaven’ (Rev 12:3). The Greek here for ‘red dragon’ would be ‘pyrros drakon’. ‘Drakon’ meaning ‘dragon’ which means a ‘serpent’. ‘Pyrros’ means ‘fire-like’ or ‘fiery red’.
  • Rev 11:8 mentions spiritual Egypt that is tempting them
When Isaiah says that the ‘fiery serpent’ is ‘flying’, it is ‘in the sky’. The Greek word for ‘heaven’ (‘ourano’) can either mean spiritual heaven or the skies above. So when Revelation 12:3 says, ‘a great red dragon appeared in the sky’ as a ‘sign’, we can directly point to Isaiah’s ‘flying fiery serpent’ as a reference that is a ‘witness forever’ (Isa 30:8) as a sign in heaven (Heb 2:4).



Rev 9:7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, 8 their hair like women’s hair, and their teeth like lions’ teeth; 9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle.​
Rev 9:18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound.​
Rev 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.​
The 'fiery flying serpent' is related to the idea of the 'seraphim' which literally means in Hebrew 'fiery serpent' and is also a type of angel from Isaiah 6:2.

 
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Qubit

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Yes. Revelation 12:1-5. btw. thanks for understanding my color coding scheme in the side margins.

Got it. :)

Are your interpretations set in stone? The reason I am asking is because many years ago a Pastor showed me how Revelation 12:1 fits with the timeline of Abraham and Sarah giving birth to Isaac and the subsequent Exodus of the Israelites.

Basically, the Woman on the Moon represents Abraham's Seed fleeing to the Wilderness with Moses. Abraham's Seed is then protected from the face of the Serpent for 1,260 years (day/year principle) until the birth of Jesus.

There are charts that show 1,260 years from the Tabernacle in the Wilderness to Jesus. There are many more things that line up.

I am wondering if you have ever considered that view before.
 
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tranquil

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Hebrews 2:2 For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution, 3 how shall we escape if we neglect such a great salvation? It was declared at first by the Lord, and it was attested to us by those who heard, 4 while God also bore witness by signs and wonders and various miracles and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.​
Your description of the timing is not correct. When we see the 'sign of the red dragon' that is the last woe and correlates to the third thing that 'Israel' will encounter when they are tempted to go into spiritual Egypt.

Isaiah 30: 1 “Ah, stubborn children,” declares the Lord, “who carry out a plan, but not mine, and who make an alliance, but not of my Spirit, that they may add sin to sin; 2 who set out to go down to Egypt, without asking for my direction, to take refuge in the protection of Pharaoh and to seek shelter in the shadow of Egypt! 3 Therefore shall the protection of Pharaoh turn to your shame, and the shelter in the shadow of Egypt to your humiliation. 4 For though his officials are at Zoan and his envoys reach Hanes, 5 everyone comes to shame through a people that cannot profit them, that brings neither help nor profit, but shame and disgrace.”​
6 An oracle on the beasts of the Negeb. Through a land of trouble and anguish, from where come the lioness and the lion, the adder and the flying fiery serpent, they carry their riches on the backs of donkeys, and their treasures on the humps of camels, to a people that cannot profit them. 7 Egypt’s help is worthless and empty; therefore I have called her “Rahab who sits still.” 8 And now, go, write it before them on a tablet and inscribe it in a book, that it may be for the time to come as a witness forever.​


Isaiah 31:1 Woe to those who go down to Egypt for help and rely on horses, who trust in chariots because they are many and in horsemen because they are very strong, but do not look to the Holy One of Israel or consult the Lord!​
Revelation 8:13 Then I looked, and I heard an eagle crying with a loud voice as it flew directly overhead, “Woe, woe, woe to those who dwell on the earth, at the blasts of the other trumpets that the three angels are about to blow!”​



This ‘witness’ is a sign to Israel that records the ‘travel’ of ‘Israel’ into spiritual Egypt. The Negeb is in southern Judea whereby one would travel to get to Egypt. A portion of ‘Israel’ is trying to ‘return to Egypt’, the place that God had rescued them from. The ‘oracle’/ prophecy is that on this journey to Egypt they would encounter:
  • 1) lions,
  • 2) adders, and
  • 3) the ‘flying fiery serpent’.

We see this spiritually in each of the three woes (the 5th, 6th & 7th Trumpet, respectively).

Thus, ‘Israel’ has a temptation to go to spiritual Egypt, back into spiritual slavery. In Isaiah 30:6 above we saw the lion, adder (snake), and flying fiery serpent.

In Revelation, we see that
  • the locusts of the 5th Trumpet (1st woe) have ‘lion’s teeth’ (Rev 9:8),
  • the horses of the 6th Trumpet (2nd woe) have ‘tails like serpents with heads’ (Rev 9:19),
  • and at the 7th Trumpet (3rd woe) we see the ‘flying fiery serpent’ = the ‘sign of the red dragon in heaven’ (Rev 12:3). The Greek here for ‘red dragon’ would be ‘pyrros drakon’. ‘Drakon’ meaning ‘dragon’ which means a ‘serpent’. ‘Pyrros’ means ‘fire-like’ or ‘fiery red’.
  • Rev 11:8 mentions spiritual Egypt that is tempting them
When Isaiah says that the ‘fiery serpent’ is ‘flying’, it is ‘in the sky’. The Greek word for ‘heaven’ (‘ourano’) can either mean spiritual heaven or the skies above. So when Revelation 12:3 says, ‘a great red dragon appeared in the sky’ as a ‘sign’, we can directly point to Isaiah’s ‘flying fiery serpent’ as a reference that is a ‘witness forever’ (Isa 30:8) as a sign in heaven (Heb 2:4).



Rev 9:7 In appearance the locusts were like horses prepared for battle: on their heads were what looked like crowns of gold; their faces were like human faces, 8 their hair like women’s hair, and their teeth like lions’ teeth; 9 they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle.​
Rev 9:18 By these three plagues a third of mankind was killed, by the fire and smoke and sulfur coming out of their mouths. 19 For the power of the horses is in their mouths and in their tails, for their tails are like serpents with heads, and by means of them they wound.​
Rev 12:3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.​
The 'fiery flying serpent' is related to the idea of the 'seraphim' which literally means in Hebrew 'fiery serpent' and is also a type of angel from Isaiah 6:2.

Isaiah 14:29 Do not rejoice, all you Philistines, that the rod that struck you is broken. For a viper will spring from the root of the snake, and a flying fiery serpent from its egg. 30 Then the firstborn of the poor will find pasture, and the needy will lie down in safety, but I will kill your root by famine, and your remnant will be slain. 31 Wail, O gate! Cry out, O city! Melt away, all you Philistines! For a cloud of smoke comes from the north, and there are no stragglers in its ranks. 32 What answer will be given to the envoys of that nation? “The LORD has founded Zion, where His afflicted people will find refuge.”


The sign of the 'flying fiery serpent' (Isa 14:29 above) (Rev 12 sign of the red dragon in heaven) is directly connected to the 'sign of the son of man in heaven' (the Rev 12 woman sign) which is the sign of Immanuel in Isaiah 7 & 8.

This idea here that the firstborn of the poor will find pasture is directly connected to the Isaiah 7-8 sign of Immanuel we saw with Revelation 12’s woman giving birth. Because the ‘poor find pasture’, then the child gets to eat ‘curds and honey’ due to herd animals having more pasture and bees taking over the land.

(Also note that the 'founding of Zion' in Isa 14:32 is taking place at the 7th Trumpet (start of the kingdom of heaven) which is the time of the sign of the son of man in heaven (the Rev 12 woman sign) and the sign of the red dragon in heaven (the 'flying' (in heaven) 'fiery (red) serpent (dragon).

Isaiah 7:10 Again the Lord spoke to Ahaz: 11 “Ask a sign of the Lord your God; let it be deep as Sheol or high as heaven.” 12 But Ahaz said, “I will not ask, and I will not put the Lord to the test.” 13 And he said, “Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also? 14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. 15 He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. 16 For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted. 17 The Lord will bring upon you and upon your people and upon your father’s house such days as have not come since the day that Ephraim departed from Judah—the king of Assyria!”​
18 In that day the Lord will whistle for the fly that is at the end of the streams of Egypt, and for the bee that is in the land of Assyria. 19And they will all come and settle in the steep ravines, and in the clefts of the rocks, and on all the thornbushes, and on all the pastures.​
20 In that day the Lord will shave with a razor that is hired beyond the River—with the king of Assyria—the head and the hair of the feet, and it will sweep away the beard also.​
21 In that day a man will keep alive a young cow and two sheep, 22 and because of the abundance of milk that they give, he will eat curds, for everyone who is left in the land will eat curds and honey.

Isaiah 8:3 And I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the Lord said to me, “Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz [quickly plunder]; 4 for before the boy knows how to cry ‘My father’ or ‘My mother,’ the wealth of Damascus and the spoil of Samaria will be carried away before the king of Assyria.”​
Please note that 'before the child knows how to say Mama or Dada' is around 10-14 months.

That 14 months is the 'season and a time' (literally 70 weeks) to destroy Samaria that is attacking Judea and then destroy Assyria.

new%20graph%202%20abominations%20versionrev12.jpg
 
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Oseas

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The Antichrist was born and rose up from the own Church-See how

1 John 2:v.18-19
19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (Compare with Hebrews 1:v.1-3)

Very interesting this revelation of the Apostle John of the primitive Church.
Who is the Apostle John talking about or to whom is he referring in the verse above? Do you know?
See, we know that the book of Revelation was showed to John around year 95 AD, i.e. 65 years after the ascension of JESUS to the third heaven. And we know also that there are two distinct Beasts described in Revelation 13:v. 1 to 18. Today, after about 2,000 years, we can and should discern both Beasts will lead / conduct two distinct satanic religious systems in near future, but one, the FIRST Man Beast, the Gentile Beast of sea, he already exists for a long time, the another has not yet, but he will manifest in near future. Then there will be two satanic Beasts and both will establish the universal and satanic KINGDOM of Antichrist, a religious MONSTER of 7 heads, 10 horns and a TAIL-Revelation 12:v.3-4 and 7-12.

The birthplace or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how.


GET READY. THE 5th UNIVERSAL AND SATANIC KINGDOM, THE ANTICHRIST's KINGDOM, IT WILL BE ESTABLISHED IN THE EARTH FROM NOW ON - Daniel 2:v.41-45
Let us prepare to enter and face the final environment of the last week of the Devil's world, and the establishment of the fifth universal Devil's kingdom, the Antichrist's kingdom, and also in the middle or half of the last week the Abomination of Desolation-Daniel 9:27-.

Let us prepare to enter and face the final environment of the last week of the Devil's world, whose satanic and distincts events will happen in two distinct halves of the last week. The FIRST half will be ruled by the MAN Beast of sea, whose ROOTS is described in Revelation13:2, a RELIGIOUS and satanic MONSTER having 7 heads and 10 horns, and upon his horns 10 crowns, and upon his (7) heads the name of blasphemy-Revelation 13:1-10. In the 2nd half, the ruler will be the MAN Beast of the earth, the dragon-Revelation 13:11-18, more powerful than the first MAN Beast, which will be wounded to death from now on, but his deadly wound will be healed, the Dragon will give him his Power, and his Throne in Jerusalem, and great Authority, and they (the world of Devil) will worshipp the dragon which will give power unto the MAN Beast of sea: and they will worshipp the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him? (Michael is)

Get ready

 
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Douggg

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I am wondering if you have ever considered that view before.
I have not heard that view before. But I don't think it is correct. The 1260 days are days not years.

Yes, my view is set for me in concrete. no offense intended... :)
 
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Douggg

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tranqul, what program did you use to make your timeline chart ?

Start over. With day 1 as the beginning. And day 2520 as the ending. All of my timeline charts have that basic framework.

With the chart covering events of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27.
 
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keras

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Jesus is coming and His reward with Him !
Get Ready!
The Lord is coming in fire and many will be slain by Him. Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:7, +

The Sixth Seal; cleanout of the Middle East region and the worldwide reset of our civilization is imminent.
Jesus is coming with His winnowing fork in hand, to test the righteous and to kill many of those who hate Him. [Mainly Moslems.] Matthew 3:12
You know these things, so how is it that you still believe in a rapture to heaven of the Christians, when Revelation12 plainly tells us about the Chrisian peoples on earth; up to the Day Jesus Returns?
You haven't addressed my post #7.
 
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Douggg

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You know these things, so how is it that you still believe in a rapture to heaven of the Christians, when Revelation12 plainly tells us about the Chrisian peoples on earth; up to the Day Jesus Returns?

You haven't addressed my post #7.
There will be persons who become Christians here on earth after the rapture takes place.
 
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