the myth of flat earth debunked again

pgp_protector said:

Or are you going to retract that now?

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Human line of sight is 3 miles.
How wide is human sight?
How wide is what we are seeing in the image given by Warden_of_the_Storm ?
Our line of sight, how much we can see, has no bearing related to any supposed 'globe model'.

contratodo said:

Human line of sight is 3 miles.
How wide is human sight?
How wide is what we are seeing in the image given by Warden_of_the_Storm ?
Our line of sight, how much we can see, has no bearing related to any supposed 'globe model'.

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Width has nothing to do with the fact that humans can see further than 3 miles at higher elevations than ground level, and also that 3 miles is the point of the horizon! Humans don't just magically stop being able to see things 3 miles away.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

But better zoom wouldn't mean anything on a flat earth because there would be no horizon to obscure it!
With the Isle of Man being at a higher elevation, I should have had not a problem seeing it but it cannot be seen in the pictures.

Your argument is bunk and worthless.

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If the Isle of Man can be seen from there with simply better zoom, then the earth is not a ball.
If the earth is a ball, the Isle of Man would not ever be able to be seen from there, because it would be behind curvature.
The earth is flat, proven that you can zoom in and see the Isle of Man.

contratodo said:

If the Isle of Man can be seen from there with simply better zoom, then the earth is not a ball.
If the earth is a ball, the Isle of Man would not ever be able to be seen from there, because it would be behind curvature.
The earth is flat, proven that you can zoom in and see the Isle of Man.

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That's not on me to substantiate. You're the one making the claim that I should be able to see the Isle of Man from my position in North Wales, so the onus is on you to show that I should be able to see the Isle of Man as per a flat earth model.

Oh no, the horizon has dipped below eye level!

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

But better zoom wouldn't mean anything on a flat earth because there would be no horizon to obscure it!

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The clouds on the horizon obscure the view, we can see that in the images.
The top part that is clouds, continues just the same. Even though from our perspective it turns into just blueness,
it is still just really clouds in the sky, at the point were the sea and clouds meet, from our perspective, the clouds cover the island,
with proper zoom we would be able to see that that is the case.

essentialsaltes said:

Oh no, the horizon has dipped below eye level!

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Nope, you just edited the photo, cropped some of the bottom out, we can see so due to the clouds,
what I did is line each photo up sincerely.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

That's not on me to substantiate. You're the one making the claim that I should be able to see the Isle of Man from my position in North Wales, so the onus is on you to show that I should be able to see the Isle of Man as per a flat earth model.

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So what happened? I asked you to take a picture and let us look at it together, and you drove out there and took a picture?
Or what?

contratodo said:

The clouds on the horizon obscure the view, we can see that in the images.
The top part that is clouds, continues just the same. Even though from our perspective it turns into just blueness,
it is still just really clouds in the sky, at the point were the sea and clouds meet, from our perspective, the clouds cover the island,
with proper zoom we would be able to see that that is the case.

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Which is not what we'd see on a flat earth model. On a flat earth, the clouds and sea would not meet until a MUCH great distance than just 3 miles away.

contratodo said:

So what happened? I asked you to take a picture and let us look at it together, and you drove out there and took a picture?
Or what?

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I took photos to show that I can't see the Isle of Man from where I am in Wales, which is what would be expected on a round earth. You then said that I had to take a blurry picture to REALLY make sure that it couldn't be seen, which I refuse to do since it's just a pedantic request.

If you want to prove that the flat earth 'model' is valid, then you do the legwork instead of just relying on me, even though I've been able to consistently show that you're talking a load of bull.

contratodo said:

Nope, you just edited the photo, cropped some of the bottom out, we can see so due to the clouds,
what I did is line each photo up sincerely.

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How do you know? You don't know the conditions of how the photo was taken, such as what angle the camera was held at with respect to the perpendicular.

In your side by side edit with all four pictures, the horizons don't line up.

How can they all be at eye level if they appear in different places on the photo. How does looking at a photo tell you anything about eye level? (it doesn't)

How does the horizon look in a theodolite?

essentialsaltes said:

How do you know? You don't know the conditions of how the photo was taken, such as what angle the camera was held at with respect to the perpendicular.

In your side by side edit with all four pictures, the horizons don't line up.

How can they all be at eye level if they appear in different places on the photo. How does looking at a photo tell you anything about eye level? (it doesn't)

How does the horizon look in a theodolite?

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As the person taking the photos, I will say that they were taken at eye level, just at slightly different elevations along the beach front.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

You're the one making the claim that I should be able to see the Isle of Man from my position in North Wales

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I also did not make that claim, this all started with you insisting that you should be able to see it.
And you can see it, if you could just zoom in. With a p900 or similar zoom, you would definitely see it.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

On a flat earth, the clouds and sea would not meet until a MUCH great distance than just 3 miles away.

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Your saying that based on what?

essentialsaltes said:

How do you know? You don't know the conditions of how the photo was taken, such as what angle the camera was held at with respect to the perpendicular.

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Yes I do, the guy who took the photos is talking to me right now.
The original photos are here in this thread now.

...And there you go, the guy who took the photos responded, before I posted this.

You did edit the photo, I did not say they line up, they are all generally eye level is what I said, and they clearly are.

The earth is as the Bible describes, the Bible is and will always be the final word. Divinely exposing the lies of the enemy.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

As the person taking the photos, I will say that they were taken at eye level, just at slightly different elevations along the beach front.

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Sure, the question is whether the horizon is at 'eye level'.

(I mean, whenever you look at something, your eye is pointing directly at it. But what we mean by eye level is that the line from your eye to the thing is parallel to the ground.)

((And as far as the photo is concerned, the camera is the eye, so they are all taken at eye level))

contratodo said:

I also did not make that claim, this all started with you insisting that you should be able to see it.
And you can see it, if you could just zoom in. With a p900 or similar zoom, you would definitely see it.

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I made that claim because I know it's a bunk claim. On a globe, the horizon would obscure any sight of the Isle of Man, which I show in the pictures, because on a flat earth there would be no horizon. It would just be a straight sight to see the island. Zooming has nothing to do with it since human sight does not just magically stop seeing objects 3 miles away.

contratodo said:

Your saying that based on what?

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Simple logic based on the premise that on a flat earth there would be no horizon.

essentialsaltes said:

Sure, the question is whether the horizon is at 'eye level'.

(I mean, whenever you look at something, your eye is pointing directly at it. But what we mean by eye level is that the line from your eye to the thing is parallel to the ground.)

((And as far as the photo is concerned, the camera is the eye, so they are all taken at eye level))

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Ah, I misunderstood. Carry on.

Warden_of_the_Storm said:

Simple logic based on the premise that on a flat earth there would be no horizon.

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So, when you go inside of a building and look down the hall there is no horizon?
You can always see to the end of the building no matter how long it is?
The Gotthard tunnel in Switzerland, one can look all the way through it from end to end or no?
And how did they account for the supposed curvature of the earth while building it?
Or did they just build straight?

contratodo said:

So, when you go inside of a building and look down the hall there is no horizon?
You can always see to the end of the building no matter how long it is?
The Gotthard tunnel in Switzerland, one can look all the way through it from end to end or no?
And how did they account for the supposed curvature of the earth while building it?
Or did they just build straight?

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The Gotthard tunnel is 9.3 miles long, so of course you're not going to see it from end to end because it cannot be seen from a higher elevation. The only way to look at it is from the level of the tunnel.

The rest of your comment is just insipid.

contratodo said:

View attachment 344662


Different distances away but yet generally the same, eye level, flat horizon.

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"Eye level" is not indicated anywhere. You've not used any instrument to show eye level. All you've given is your subjective, and very wrong, opinion.

contratodo said:

The isle of Man is 73.42 miles away.

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How far away is the moon?

contratodo said:

Human line of sight is 3 miles.

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At sea level, because of the distant objects being hidden by the curvature of the earth. We have no trouble seeing the moon which I'm sure you agree is more than 3 miles away.

contratodo said:

I suspect with a p900 or similar zoom, we would see the island.

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You suspect wrong.

contratodo said:

Also from this distance the perspective of the clouds may cover the island, the vanishing point effects our vision,
clouds that are in the sky, from this distance, cover the island from our perspective.

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No. Clouds will be above the island, not in front, and once again we are able to see clouds clearly that are much further than 3 miles away.

contratodo said:

With a good zoom, we would be able to see if that is so.

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No. A good zoom will simply bring small objects in front of the horizon into clearer view. It cannot make objects already hidden by the horizon suddenly appear.

contratodo said:

Let us all also notice how nice and flat and eye level that horizon is, that is very beautiful place you are at.

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And how subjective your opinion is.

contratodo said:

Human line of sight is 3 miles.

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How far is the moon? How come we can see the moon?

prodromos said:

How far is the moon? How come we can see the moon?

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Must be closer than 3 miles