Vatican will now permit baptisms for transgenders and babies of homosexual couples

Wolseley · Jan 30, 2024

Another shoe drops. These things seem to be coming faster and faster. Maybe Bergoglio knows his time is short, so he wants to mainstream as much sexual deviancy as he can before he checks out.

Of course, this is from the Communist News Network, so initial reports may be erroneous; we will have to wait and see.

Come, Lord Jesus.

MSN

Gnarwhal · Jan 30, 2024

Hopefully the baptism burns their transgender disorder out of them, or in the baby's case protects them from their "parents" disordered appetites.

Michie · Jan 30, 2024

This shoe dropped back in November. Of course the offspring will follow.

Vatican Doctrine Office: Transgender-Identifying People Can Be Baptized, Witness Marriages

The dicastery’s response is dated Oct. 31 and signed by DDF Prefect Cardinal Victor Fernández and Pope Francis. The Vatican’s doctrine office has said an adult who identifies as transgender can receive the sacrament of baptism under the same conditions as any adult, as long as there is no risk...

www.christianforums.com

‘Transgender’ Baptisms? Sorting Out the Vatican’s Recent Statement

COMMENTARY: It is critically important to carefully read the Dicastery of the Doctrine of the Faith’s answers to Bishop Negri’s questions in context — and to ignore silly headlines from media sources that do not understand Catholic teaching. If you’ve been watching the news, you were likely...

www.christianforums.com

prodromos · Jan 30, 2024

Wolseley said:
Another shoe drops. These things seem to be coming faster and faster. Maybe Bergoglio knows his time is short, so he wants to mainstream as much sexual deviancy as he can before he checks out.

Of course, this is from the Communist News Network, so initial reports may be erroneous; we will have to wait and see.

Come, Lord Jesus.

MSN

Unfortunately the Archbishop of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese in America blazed that trail a year or two ago. A wealthy Greek family wanted him to baptise their two children in Greece. Archbishop Elpidophoros sought and received permission to perform the baptism in a parish in Greece, however he did not inform the bishop that the parents were two homosexual men, who of course were not married in the eyes of the Church.
It caused a huge scandal but unfortunately did not result in the defrocking of the good archbishop.

chevyontheriver · Jan 30, 2024

Michie said:
This shoe dropped back in November. Of course the offspring will follow.

Right. That shoe dropped about a month before FS hit the streets. So this is a bit of old news.

But then FS was just the inevitable result of Amoris Letitia and then the failure of the Synod on Synodality to do the expected endorsement of everything LGBTQUERTY.

Pope Francis didn't get his full agenda at the Synod on Synodality. Too many sane opponents resisted. And he knows his time is short. So he has to push it non-synodlically because he can't wait until next August given the chance he won't even get his way then either.

WarriorAngel · Jan 30, 2024

Wolseley said:
Another shoe drops. These things seem to be coming faster and faster. Maybe Bergoglio knows his time is short, so he wants to mainstream as much sexual deviancy as he can before he checks out.

Of course, this is from the Communist News Network, so initial reports may be erroneous; we will have to wait and see.

Come, Lord Jesus.

MSN

babies of homosexual couples

Baptism is a human right for a baby.

Without it they can be fodder for the enemy, especially in that situation.

RileyG · Jan 30, 2024

Gnarwhal said:
Hopefully the baptism burns their transgender disorder out of them, or in the baby's case protects them from their "parents" disordered appetites.

Amen!

RileyG · Jan 30, 2024

Homosexuals cannot have babies. It always requires one man and one woman. And no one should be deprived of their natural mother and father.

prodromos · Jan 30, 2024

WarriorAngel said:
babies of homosexual couples

Baptism is a human right for a baby.

Without it they can be fodder for the enemy, especially in that situation.

The assumption behind baptising the babies of believing couples, is that the children will be raised in the faith, being taught right from wrong, learning to resist the passions and live a godly life.

That is not likely to happen in the case of homosexual couples. How much worse is it for someone to leave the Church, having been united to the Body of Christ even for a short time, than it is for someone who had never known Christ.

RileyG · Jan 31, 2024

prodromos said:
The assumption behind baptising the babies of believing couples, is that the children will be raised in the faith, being taught right from wrong, learning to resist the passions and live a godly life.

That is not likely to happen in the case of homosexual couples. How much worse is it for someone to leave the Church, having been united to the Body of Christ even for a short time, than it is for someone who had never known Christ.

You're 100% right!!!

Markie Boy · Jan 31, 2024

I think the transgender baptism is more problematic. I don't think you can be a believer and follower of Jesus - and be trans.

So this statement says "We will baptize people that are not believers and followers." Does that make sense?

Michie · Jan 31, 2024

Markie Boy said:
I think the transgender baptism is more problematic. I don't think you can be a believer and follower of Jesus - and be trans.

So this statement says "We will baptize people that are not believers and followers." Does that make sense?

.

chevyontheriver · Jan 31, 2024

WarriorAngel said:
Baptism is a human right for a baby.

No. It is a gift from God. In the case of babies it is required that after baptism that the parents carefully raise them in the faith. If not, baptism is a farce.

WarriorAngel said:
Without it they can be fodder for the enemy, especially in that situation.

They will be fodder for the enemy if the enemy makes a show of such a baptism where the parents are out and proud and making a statement of their perversion. NOBODY would object to a baby being baptized. The problem is the 'parents' and how they are making the baby fodder for the enemy. The child can be baptized some time in the future if conditions allow.

chevyontheriver · Jan 31, 2024

Markie Boy said:
I think the transgender baptism is more problematic. I don't think you can be a believer and follower of Jesus - and be trans.

MAYBE in the sense where someone mutilated their body and now has returned to Christ. Only possible exception. But then nobody would have needed a Vatican document to approve of that.

WarriorAngel · Jan 31, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
No. It is a gift from God. In the case of babies it is required that after baptism that the parents carefully raise them in the faith. If not, baptism is a farce.

They will be fodder for the enemy if the enemy makes a show of such a baptism where the parents are out and proud and making a statement of their perversion. NOBODY would object to a baby being baptized. The problem is the 'parents' and how they are making the baby fodder for the enemy. The child can be baptized some time in the future if conditions allow.

Without baptism they will not 'acknowledge' that it is wrong.
IE the Spirit will give them grace to know how depraved it is.

That little voice...

It is a gift and every baby has the right to that gift. They are innocent of sin except original and the mark of baptism is a great gift for discernment.

Markie Boy · Jan 31, 2024

chevyontheriver said:
MAYBE in the sense where someone mutilated their body and now has returned to Christ. Only possible exception. But then nobody would have needed a Vatican document to approve of that.

I struggle with this, because to me it basically says "Baptism for non-believers." I can't figure a way around it.

Michie · Jan 31, 2024

Markie Boy said:
I struggle with this, because to me it basically says "Baptism for non-believers." I can't figure a way around it.

A repented transsexual that has long past mutilating the body is not a nonbeliever. That’s how you get around it. I mean…think of eunuchs in Scripture.

chevyontheriver · Jan 31, 2024

Markie Boy said:
I struggle with this, because to me it basically says "Baptism for non-believers." I can't figure a way around it.

I know. Overall I have to agree with you. But then there is the girl who was told by her teachers that she should be a boy. She goes in for hormone treatment and for surgery and tries to convince herself that she is really a boy. And then she realizes she made a big mistake. Do we in the Church have a place for her? If she is still under the delusion she is a boy do we have a role in helping her find her God given identity. I think we have to help these individuals and find a place for their battered bodies and souls to recover. That's not baptism for non-believers but rescuing the most battered of those who have come back to faith. That we can do. Baptizing just anybody without a solid expectation their parents will raise them in the faith, particularly if those parents or godparents want to make a show of their aberrant sexuality, that would be wrong.

chevyontheriver · Jan 31, 2024

WarriorAngel said:
Without baptism they will not 'acknowledge' that it is wrong.

They are candidates for evangelization ... and then maybe if they come to faith some day candidates for baptism.

WarriorAngel said:
IE the Spirit will give them grace to know how depraved it is.

The same Spirit is active in every mind that is not willfully self-depraved.

WarriorAngel said:
It is a gift and every baby has the right to that gift. They are innocent of sin except original and the mark of baptism is a great gift for discernment.

That MIGHT work out for them, or, if their parents are of the sort to raise them outside of the faith yet inside of sexual deviancy, will just result in another baptized unbeliever.

Michie · Jan 31, 2024

Infant baptism always makes me think of the circumcision of the OT as a covenant. My question is does this not depend on practicing parents?

Vatican will now permit baptisms for transgenders and babies of homosexual couples

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