Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
For some of us that is indeed true. Not that this 'is' purgatory but that we can do a lot of reparation for sins by our suffering in the here and now. Catholics even have a saying about suffering; "Offer it up" we say so at least our sufferings can be of some benefit to ourselves or for others.
I like the revised and reformed view of Purgatory that seems to be quite prevalent now in the RCC. Purgation (aka Purgatory) is, according to my sources, actually a pleasant process, much like taking a shower and getting dressed prior to going to a party.
A very cold shower maybe, or a way too hot shower. Not the fires of Hell but the hot fire of the love of Jesus refining us who end up there. I think it was overstated to say that purgatory was like the fires of hell. I think it is way understated to call it a shower. A refiner's fire does seem apropos.
That is a conundrum. If Purgatory is not such a nasty place and if it is not defined by time, then the whole system of indulgences comes into question.
No. Indulgences with a time element were not for time off purgatory but for time off a penance. Back in the day there were some really serious penances, years even. So the 'conundrum' is a false one, like a dilemma with only one horn maybe. It's a common misunderstanding, and lots of Catholics think the same thing.
Thank you for the clarification. You are the first Catholic to explain this to me. I appreciate it.
For murder there was the possibility of it being for the rest of your life. Which could mean that you could sit at the back of the Church for the liturgy of the word, as if you were a catechumen, but then have to leave and you would not be able to receive the Eucharist. So potentially a whole lifetime of penitence to work on repairing the damage you did. Adultery or apostasy could have even multi-year penances. It seemed a bit harsh by modern standards. So the evolution of indulgences was pushed by lay people who wanted to apply their works of reparation for people with long penances. A way of doing something for them with parts of the community helping other parts. This continues today. The cloistered nuns up on the hill pray and pray and sacrifice, applying lots of that for the assistance of sinners and the reparations needed because of their sins. And a priest who tells a penitent to pray three Hail Marys, a good priest anyway, will spend a long long time praying a whole lot more as a reparation he does for the penitent. Point is we are actively doing reparations for each other as a community. Things don't need to be as harsh as they were 1800 years ago. A little bit of that again could be heathy, taking sin's consequences seriously again.
The Word of God specifically tells us little, we know purgatory exists, the purification is spoken of in the Bible. Whether it is a state or place we do not know, we do know that prayers are offered for those in purgatory. The rest is speculation based upon the Word of God, I consider it the same as to speculate about what Heaven may be like. The obvious negative is not being in Heaven with God, the positive is that you will be there after purgatory. In my opinion being separated from God in Heaven is a lot worse that taking a shower, but you are free to believe otherwise. Please don't tell people what is supposedly "prevalent" in the Catholic Church without providing supporting evidence. I asked you multiple times to support your claim that there is a "very strong movement in the Catholic Church in Vietnam to recognize Mary as the fourth member of the eternal Godhead."
Thanks again. What happens to the Catholic when he or she dies before the penance is completed?
IF, big IF, they die in friendship with Jesus, AKA they are saved already, then they are purged of their remaining bad inclinations and bad habits and any impure thing that remains in them.
Thank you. That sheds some light on something that had puzzled me.
The problem, I think, revolves around the definition of sanctification. The Catholic Church conflates salvation with sanctification. Thus, one must be completely and utterly sanctified to enter heaven. This, according to the Catholic Church, occasionally happens to rare individuals, but the extreme majority of Catholics cannot enter heaven unless they go through the process of purgation.
A person who remarries after a civil divorce and whose first marriage is not annulled, is regarded as being in mortal sin which is serious, but they are not shunned even though they are denied the body & blood of Christ in communion. That can hit some people quite hard, especially if they could not manage to live a celibate life after their civil divorce and even more so if they feel sure that their first marriage ought to be annulled. I am sorry that your acquaintance, Fred, committed suicide, that is such a sad story.
