Reconciled to God while enemies !

Brightfame52 · Nov 30, 2023

By whom we received the Atonement !

Rom 5:10-11

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Those Christ died for, they did absolutely nothing to receive reconciliation with God, in fact, they by His death alone had been reconciled to Him even while they were enemies / unbelievers Rom 5:10 ! Christ's death did not just make reconciliation possible, and now its up to the sinners He died for to accept it, or repent, or even believe, so that it becomes a fact, no, the reconciliation took place even while they were enemies. When Christ was raised from the dead as their Head, He was reconciled to God, for because of their sins being imputed to Him, He experienced the Father forsaking Him Matt 27:46

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

However upon Christ's resurrection from the dead, it was a evidence that that God had been reconciled to Him and not only Him, but those whom sins He died for, and so by Him alone those He died for receive the reconciliation, it was applied to them ! 8

Brightfame52 · Dec 1, 2023

Saved by Grace through reconciliation while enemies !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

When the Apostle writes to believers here these words, He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace means the favor of God, and all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, and before they believe, and while yet being disobedient, they are saved into a state of reconciliation and Favor , which is Grace, with God, in fact they stand in a state of Grace Rom 5:2

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The word stand here , the greek word its in the perfect tense, and its an established and fixed station whereby we stand safe, and this is before Faith !

We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death, and that word reconciled katallassō means:

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour or Grace

God for Christ's sake alone, has received into Favor, a state of Grace, while those He died for are enemies, unbelievers and disobedient ! Now thats what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. See this way Grace the more shines forth, for God to have us in His Divine Favor, once and for all, while we are disobedient sinners and the ungodly, this magnifies the Grace of God because we did nothing to deserve it, but at the same time we are doing everything and more to forfeit it. 9

zoidar · Dec 1, 2023

Brightfame52 said:
Saved by Grace through reconciliation while enemies !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

When the Apostle writes to believers here these words, He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace means the favor of God, and all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, and before they believe, and while yet being disobedient, they are saved into a state of reconciliation and Favor , which is Grace, with God, in fact they stand in a state of Grace Rom 5:2

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

The word stand here , the greek word its in the perfect tense, and its an established and fixed station whereby we stand safe, and this is before Faith !

We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death, and that word reconciled katallassō means:

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour or Grace

God for Christ's sake alone, has received into Favor, a state of Grace, while those He died for are enemies, unbelievers and disobedient ! Now thats what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. See this way Grace the more shines forth, for God to have us in His Divine Favor, once and for all, while we are disobedient sinners and the ungodly, this magnifies the Grace of God because we did nothing to deserve it, but at the same time we are doing everything and more to forfeit it. 9

You do have 51 sec to spare?

Brightfame52 · Dec 2, 2023

Saved by Grace through reconciliation while enemies ! 2

The fact is, its not Salvation by Grace or Justification by Grace unless we are by the Grace of the Death of Christ alone Heb 2:9, saved and or Justified before God while we are still disobedient, ungodly, and unbelievers, its only then can it be said when we do come to believe by the Power of the Holy Ghost, that we believed on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So if we were anything but in a active state of ungodliness, and disobedience and unbelief when Christ's death alone reconciled us into the state of Divine Favor and Grace, we immediately have fallen from Grace, and any scripture testimony of being saved by Grace, and can only be judged as one who professes Salvation and or Justification by their works, which is condemned by the Word of God !

Studyman · Dec 2, 2023

Brightfame52 said:
Reconcile the reconciled !

All those whom Christ died for, by His Death alone, apart from any obedience of their own, and in fact while they were being enemies, they have been reconciled to God [received into His Favor], again solely by His Son's Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[Believers] were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

It's important, in my view, to note that being "reconciled to God" doesn't mean men are saved.

Paul teaches us not to be ignorant of this in 1 Cor. 10. Israel was "Reconciled to God" while they were yet in Egypt. (Symbolic of Sin) They were reconciled by the Blood of the Passover Lamb.

But Paul warned that even though they ate and drank from the Rock, and that Rock was Christ, "But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

Being reconciled to God while we yet lived in sin, is only the beginning of the Journey, at least in the Salvation that comes from the God of the Bible.

Once reconciled, we are to repent, and put on the New Man "which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness."

How can we find these things? The Jesus of the Bible said to "Seek Ye First, the Kingdom of God and "HIS" Righteousness" and all these things will be added to us.

Where do we find God's Righteousness?

Paul teaches the Body of Christ;

2 Tim. 3: 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

WE are, However, to "Take Heed" of "Many men" who come in Christ's Name. Or as Paul warns; "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

If we follow the examples of those men who fell in the wilderness, we too, shall fall, as it is written.

Rom. 11: 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches (Jews that fell) were broken off, that I might be graffed in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in "his goodness": otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Brightfame52 said:
Now these reconciled enemies, unbelievers here in Vs 10 are the same ones of that World Paul states this of in 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

But now how does this square with what is written, the imperative in Vs 20 ?

20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Here is the meaning, in Rom 5:10 and 2 Cor 5:19, those whom Christ died for are Reconciled to God objectively while still in the flesh[sin nature] and very much unconverted and at enmity with God, but now when the imperative is issued, a summons to Gospel Faith and Obedience, " Be ye reconciled to God" It is when they are in their New Nature, Born of God, and now it is time for them to have a special apprehension of that Reconciliation that Christ has already accomplished or Established with God for us. Its a calling into fellowship 1 Cor 1:9

God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

Before and without a New Birth and Nature we are not fit vessels for Communion and Fellowship with God.

So that's the difference, When merely objectively reconciled, we are still in a state of nature and enmity against God, and hence the Need of New Birth Jn 3:7, then we are reconciled to God inherently.

The imperative in Vs 20 is actually a turning us to God, because though it is an imperative, its in the passive voice, meaning By the Command God is actually reconciling us to Himself, we are the subjects of God's Command, it works upon us. That's why the Gospel is called the Power of God unto salvation to everyone who is believing. 4

Well, this is all very religious sounding, but in my understanding, it's much simpler than all this. Simple enough for a child to understand.

The reconciliation is there for anyone who would follow God's instruction in Righteousness. Paul breaks it down pretty simple, for both Jew and Gentile.

Acts 26: 19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: 20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet (worthy) for repentance.

And again;

Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

We just have to be careful of the "other voice" which exists in the garden God has placed us in, who is disguised as an Apostle of Christ.

Brightfame52 · Dec 2, 2023

@Studyman

It's important, in my view, to note that being "reconciled to God" doesn't mean men are saved.

But it does, a reconciled man or person is saved from the penalty of their sins, forgiven of all sin, and God is at peace with them.

Studyman · Dec 2, 2023

Brightfame52 said:
@Studyman

But it does, a reconciled man or person is saved from the penalty of their sins, forgiven of all sin, and God is at peace with them.

I know this is what this world's religions promote. And truly this religious philosophy is very seductive. That God allowed His Son to be murdered, so that you don't have to "Yield yourself" a servant to obey Him, which the Jesus "of the Bible" said was needed to "Enter Life". But I was pointing out what the Scriptures actually say. It would be great if you would consider the Words of Paul and Jesus regarding this very topic.

Heb. 10: 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, (Reconciled to God) there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Rom. 11: 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. (Reconciled to God) 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, (That were reconciled to God) take heed lest he also spare not thee. (After you have been reconciled to God) 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, "if thou continue" in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

I tried to show you, not my beliefs, but Paul's own words in which HE tells us not to be Ignorant of this Biblical Truth in 1 Cor. 10.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Jesus knew there would be religions, who come in His Name, who call Him Lord, Lord, that would refuse to accept much of what the Jesus of the Bible, and His apostles taught.

He saw this religious philosophy that many promote coming, and prepared me for it, knowing I would be surrounded by this world's religions who don't believe much of what is written. I hope you might reconsider this philosophy you have adopted, and turn to the God of the Bible, as we are instructed to do.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Paul speaks directly to this in 1 cor. 10, telling the Body of Christ that even though Israel was "Reconciled to God" by the Blood of the Passover Lamb, they were still overthrown in the Wilderness. Not Caleb, Not Jushua, but those who once reconciled, refused to Glorify God "As God".

Brightfame52 · Dec 4, 2023

Saved by Grace by Reconciliation !

When the Apostle writes to Believers @ Rome these words Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace is the favor of God, and all for whom He died, Even While They Are Enemies, before they believe, repent or act any Gospel Obedience, and while they are actively disobedient, If Christ died for them, they are saved and received into the Favor of God ! The word for reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

And thats what Grace is, God's Favor, and in His Favor is Life Ps 30:5

For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

And that Life is Salvation ! It's Life that Lasts a Lifetime here and ushers them into Life Eternal ! 9

Studyman · Dec 4, 2023

Brightfame52 said:
Saved by Grace by Reconciliation !

When the Apostle writes to Believers @ Rome these words Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes, Jesus paid the penalty for my sins against God. Now I am reconciled to God. How does a man "Stay Reconciled"? Here is what the Scriptures actually say, which is where my disagreement with this popular religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting is founded.

Rom. 11: 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, "if thou continue" in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

So yes, these were reconciled to God, but must "Do" something to remain reconciled. It's right there in your own Bible, it's just that popular religious businesses and sects of this world don't teach what Paul teaches.

Is this the only place where the Scriptures teach this? Goodness no, its all over the Scriptures.

Rom. 2: 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 "To them" who by patient continuance in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

John 8: 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

I could go on and on and on. But if a man isn't convinced by these Scriptures, or are not even willing to engage in an honest discussion about them, what good would it be to include the volumes of other scriptures which teach the same?

Brightfame52 said:
He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace is the favor of God, and all for whom He died, Even While They Are Enemies, before they believe, repent or act any Gospel Obedience, and while they are actively disobedient, If Christ died for them, they are saved and received into the Favor of God ! The word for reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

And thats what Grace is, God's Favor, and in His Favor is Life Ps 30:5

For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

And that Life is Salvation ! It's Life that Lasts a Lifetime here and ushers them into Life Eternal ! 9

Nevertheless, Paul warns "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

It's the Life of the Jesus of the Bible "IN MAN" that deters the death angel. This "New Man" must be "put on". There is nowhere in scriptures where it is taught that Jesus "Puts on" this New Man for us.

Eph. 4: 22 That "ye" put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that "ye" put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

While it is a very seductive religious philosophy that Jesus puts off the old man "for us", and puts on the New Man "for us", and this doctrine has been a great marketing strategy for this world's religious businesses, and sects, the Scriptures don't teach this at all. We have a part to play in our Salvation. Passover is just the beginning of God's Salvation. AS Paul tries to tell men, but they don't believe him;

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Brightfame52 · Dec 5, 2023

Saved by Grace by Reconciliation ! 2

Now that is what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. Its to be in a state of Favor and Blessing and Grace and Peace with God EVEN while we are at the same time being sinners, ungodly and disobedient and unbelievers, that is how God's Grace is Magnified the More, when its Saving Merit is applied when we have done nothing to deserve it, and while we are doing everything in our power to forfeit it.

Listen the fact is, its not never Salvation by Grace, or Justification by Grace unless we are by the Death of Christ alone, Saved, and or Justified before God, while we are yet still being disobedient, and ungodly, and unbelievers, then and only then can it be truthfully be said that we believed on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

This means we were Justified/ reconciled to God, while being Ungodly. Now if we were anything but ungodly, disobedient sinners when Christ's Death as a Free Gift Gift, Justified us before God or Reconciled us to God, then we immediately forfeit any claims of being Saved and or Justified by Grace, we can only be Judged as one who makes a profession of Salvation or Justification by Grace, but in actuality you believe in Justification by your works ! 9

Brightfame52 · Dec 5, 2023

Studyman said:
Yes, Jesus paid the penalty for my sins against God. Now I am reconciled to God. How does a man "Stay Reconciled"? Here is what the Scriptures actually say, which is where my disagreement with this popular religious philosophy you have adopted and are now promoting is founded.

Rom. 11: 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, "if thou continue" in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

So yes, these were reconciled to God, but must "Do" something to remain reconciled. It's right there in your own Bible, it's just that popular religious businesses and sects of this world don't teach what Paul teaches.

Is this the only place where the Scriptures teach this? Goodness no, its all over the Scriptures.

Rom. 2: 6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 "To them" who by patient continuance in well doing "seek for" glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

John 8: 31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

I could go on and on and on. But if a man isn't convinced by these Scriptures, or are not even willing to engage in an honest discussion about them, what good would it be to include the volumes of other scriptures which teach the same?

Nevertheless, Paul warns "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

It's the Life of the Jesus of the Bible "IN MAN" that deters the death angel. This "New Man" must be "put on". There is nowhere in scriptures where it is taught that Jesus "Puts on" this New Man for us.

Eph. 4: 22 That "ye" put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that "ye" put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

While it is a very seductive religious philosophy that Jesus puts off the old man "for us", and puts on the New Man "for us", and this doctrine has been a great marketing strategy for this world's religious businesses, and sects, the Scriptures don't teach this at all. We have a part to play in our Salvation. Passover is just the beginning of God's Salvation. AS Paul tries to tell men, but they don't believe him;

1 Cor. 10: 1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

Those reconciled to God by Jesus death shall in addition be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Studyman · Dec 5, 2023

Brightfame52 said:
Those reconciled to God by Jesus death shall in addition be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes, as the Scriptures I posted also tell us. Men are reconciled to God by death, but they still need to be saved by His Life. While the whole "Come as you are" doctrines is popular, and a great marketing strategy for this world's religions as they compete for members without which their religion could not survive, there is more to Salvation than the murder of Jesus.

At least according to the Jesus "of the bible".

Brightfame52 · Dec 6, 2023

Shall be saved by His Life !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

What the false teachers are ignorant of, with their using this verse to teach that Christ reconciled all humanity to Himself through the Death of Christ, that they are also stating another untruth, which is all without exception shall be saved by Christ's Life, simply because that is the Promise to them that were reconciled to God by His Death while they were enemies !

Now with that stated, who is it in this verse that it is promised they shall be saved by Christ's Life ? And what does this mean ? To answer the first question, Its all whom were reconciled to God, by Christ's Death, while being enemies and unbelievers !

The Promise to them is "being reconciled[while enemies], we shall be saved by his life."

The word shall puts this statement in the indicative mood which means:

The indicative mood is a simple statement of fact. If an action really occurs or has occurred or will occur, it will be rendered in the indicative mood.Romans 5 :: King James Version (KJV)

Now this is True because His Life spoken of here Rom 5:10

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

His Life is also their Life, for it would be just as appropriate for it to read, They shall be saved by their Life, since His Life is theirs, He rose with their Life in Him, as their Head; Paul wrote Col 3:4

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

The Our here is His Body the Church, for whom He is the Head of Col 1:18

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

He was the Head of the Body the Church as the Firstborn from the dead, speaking of His Resurrection and the Life Rom 5:10 refers to !

Each Member of His Body was raised together with Him, and by virtue of that, each member of His Body shall be saved by His ? Their Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.10

Brightfame52 · Dec 7, 2023

Shall be saved by His Life ! 2

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now listen, those who were reconciled / saved by His Death shall also be saved by His Life !

False Teachers hijack this verse to say that the Death of Christ doesn't save anyone, but that His Life does !

But what these false teachers don't know is that this verse does not say that no one is saved by Christ's death, simply because that would be a untruth, in fact they are saved from by His death from the penalty of sin which is Death Rom 6:23 and because of that, His death for them abolishing Death 2 Tim 1:10

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

And since they have no more penalty of sin charged against them, which caused death, then Justice demands that they now be saved out of death by Christ's Life.

That Resurrection Life of Christ is theirs as He is their Head, and as their Head and Saviour He must communicate to them Resurrection Life to raise them from the Spiritually Dead, this proves His Headship of them and His being their Saviour. When this occurs in the life of anyone Christ died for 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Or Eph 2:4-6

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Thats saved there in Vs 5 is what Paul meant in Rom 5:10 of the reconciled while they were enemies ! Because of reconciliation which indicates free from the charges of sin imputed 2 Cor 5:19, they therefore must be saved from Spiritual Death by His Life Giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45 ; Eph 2:5 !

This Life giving was made possible because His Death saved them from the Penalty of sin which incurs death, which His death for them satisfied God's Law and Justice, so now they must be according to Justice saved by Christ's Resurrected Life, quickening them from the Spiritually dead !

Brightfame52 · Dec 8, 2023

Reconciliation ensures all of Salvation !

Understand something, We know that Christ did not die for all mankind individually without exception, if we believe the Truth about His Death, in how it secures and ensures that those He died for shall be saved by His Life Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now lets consider here that its an stated fact that those Christ died for, even while they were enemies, that is to say unbelievers, even then they were reconciled to God; and the promise to them now reconciled to God while enemies, by His Death is " THEY SHALL BE SAVED BY HIS LIFE" !

So now if He reconciled all mankind without exception to God while they were enemies and unbelievers by His Death [supposing He died for them] and yet these same enemies thus reconciled by His death are not SAVED BY HIS LIFE AS PROMISED then the scripture has been proved to be false and a lie.

The only way for it not to be proved false is if all humanity without exception shall eventually be saved by His Life, which equates to universalism, another false teaching of the ungodly, or that Christ's Death was Limited to only the saved, which is limited atonement, or limited reconciliation !

So which do you believe today ? Let us examine our hearts before God and His Truth ! If you believe Christ died for all humanity without exception and reconciled them to God while enemies as Per Rom 5:10 then you either believe in Universal-ism or you believe that the scriptures teach limited atonement, you cant straddle the fence ! 10

Doug Brents · Dec 8, 2023

“Calvinists, who deny that salvation can ever be lost, reason on the subject in a marvelous way. They tell us, that no virgin’s lamp can go out; no promising harvest be choked with thorns; no branch in Christ can ever be cut off from unfruitfulness; no pardon can ever be forfeited, and no name blotted out of God’s book! They insist that no salt can ever lose its savor; nobody can ever “receive the grace of God in vain”; “bury his talents”; “neglect such great salvation”; trifle away “a day of grace”; “look back” after putting his hand to the gospel plow. Nobody can “grieve the Spirit” till He is “quenched,” and strives no more, nor “deny the Lord that bought them”; nor “bring upon themselves swift destruction.” Nobody, or body of believers, can ever get so lukewarm that Jesus will spew them out of His mouth. They use reams of paper to argue that if one ever got lost he was never found; that if one falls, he never stood; if one was ever “cast forth,” he was never in, and “if one ever withered,” he was never green; and that “if any man draws back,” it proves that he never had anything to draw back from; that if one ever “falls away into spiritual darkness,” he was never enlightened; that if you “again get entangled in the pollutions of the world,” it shows that you never escaped; that if you “put salvation away” you never had it to put away, and if you make shipwreck of faith, there was no ship of faith there!! In short they say: If you get it, you can’t lose it; and if you lose it you never had it. May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning!”

~ John Wesley

Calvinists other four points must be defended with equally fallacious reasoning.

Brightfame52 · Dec 9, 2023

Christ's death in reconciliation has a Two Fold purpose, it was to reconcile God to man and man to God! If it doesn't do this, it was a failure to Gods purpose , but it did Reconcile both sides as scripture teaches !

Brightfame52 · Dec 10, 2023

Reconciled to God , more of what it means ?

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

What does being reconciled to God mean ? Yes even when unbelievers and enemies !

It means that even as enemies and unbelievers God has no sins to charge against them, because all their sins have been put away by the Lord Jesus Christ.

These also God in Justice will not and cannot deal in wrath towards them for their sins as He will with others in a state of disobedience Eph 5:3-6

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things[In Vs 3-5] cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

This wrath of God here does include the second death Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Notice a similar list of sins are here mentioned like those in Eph 5:3-5 !

I believe its the Wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

And its the wrath spoken of here 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Now all whom Christ by His death reconciled to God, they were not appointed to wrath, and that even while enemies and unbelievers, even then they are saved from the Wrath to come through Him Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Through Him here means through His Death ! In fact the word through here in Vs 9 is the same word BY in Vs 10:

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Its the prep dia, which means "on account of" and so we were saved from wrath and reconciled to God on account of His Death, because of it, and no other cause can be considered without turning into idolatry !

zoidar · Dec 10, 2023

Brightfame52 said:
Reconciled to God , more of what it means ?

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

What does being reconciled to God mean ? Yes even when unbelievers and enemies !

It means that even as enemies and unbelievers God has no sins to charge against them, because all their sins have been put away by the Lord Jesus Christ.

These also God in Justice will not and cannot deal in wrath towards them for their sins as He will with others in a state of disobedience Eph 5:3-6

3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things[In Vs 3-5] cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

This wrath of God here does include the second death Rev 21:8

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Notice a similar list of sins are here mentioned like those in Eph 5:3-5 !

I believe its the Wrath to come 1 Thess 1:10

10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

And its the wrath spoken of here 1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Now all whom Christ by His death reconciled to God, they were not appointed to wrath, and that even while enemies and unbelievers, even then they are saved from the Wrath to come through Him Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Through Him here means through His Death ! In fact the word through here in Vs 9 is the same word BY in Vs 10:

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Its the prep dia, which means "on account of" and so we were saved from wrath and reconciled to God on account of His Death, because of it, and no other cause can be considered without turning into idolatry !

If you believe you can sin all you want and not be held accountable because you have been reconciled, you are living in a deception.

Brightfame52 · Dec 11, 2023

Making Peace /reconcilation by the blood of His Cross !

Col 1:20

20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Did you know that all for whom Christ died, they have Peace with God before Faith ? Yes they have it[Peace with God] even though by nature they are enemies in their minds against Him and in Unbelief, because this Peace they have with God is established by the Blood of Christ, or by His Death, and its a True fact even while they are being enemies, hating Him and His Son the Lord Jesus Christ.

This Peace they have as enemies and unbelievers is true also because again as such they have been reconciled to God ! How was it they were reconciled to God ? It was not by their Faith, but by His Death Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Hence as reconciled enemies they have Peace with God, they are established in His Favor through the Lord Jesus Christ ! 10

Reconciled to God while enemies !

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