Reconciled to God while enemies !

[John Mullally]

@John Mullally
False, the benefit was applied while unbelievers, else why are other unbelievers condemned while unbelievers as in John 3:18

Jesus lays the condition for receiving eternal life and unbelievers don't qualify (John 5:24, John 3:14-15, Mark 16:15-16).

Even the faith to be saved must be received. It comes by hearing the Gospel and we all choose what we will listen to.

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. NKJV​

​

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, NIV​

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:18 contradicts your point - it says unbelievers are condemned. There is no scripture about God causing anyone to believe.

How can a unbeliever be both reconciled to God and already condemned at the same time ?

All have sinned and thus we cannot merit eternal life. The provision of Christ's atonement for sin is made for all people but its benefit (reconciliation) is not applied until individuals believe.

For example, the serpent lifted on the pole provided the means of healing for all, but its benefit was only applied to those who look at the serpent for healing. The same is true of Christ’s provision on Calvary - whoever looks to that provision in faith will be reconciled to God. See John 3:14-15.

One only receives the benefit of a check when they receive it (by cashing or depositing it).

 

[Brightfame52]

Romans 5:10 Reconciled as Enemies !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Yes Paul is speaking as a Believer to other believers, but it is instructive as to what he writes accordingly, he writes that they were or had been reconciled to God, while they were enemies, unbelievers, by His Son's Death !

How can and are sinners, who by nature, and while being active enemies to God, hating Him and at enmity with Him in their minds by wicked works Col 1:21

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

How could they nevertheless have been at that time reconciled to a Holy God ?

The scripture tells us, it was by the Death of His Son, Rom 5:10, which means His Death alone, while they were being enemies, had legally removed their guilt before God's Law and Justice, their slate had been wiped clean, and except for that men, cannot be legally reconciled to God and be guilt and condemnation free !

Now this applies only to believers , when they were not yet believers !

All others, while unbelievers and enemies are yet condemned already Jn 3:18 and under God's wrath without hope of ever seeing life Jn 3:36 !8

 

[Brightfame52]

Romans 5:2 basically says we access to God’s grace through faith. So you cannot be saved unless you have faith.

Thats a benefit of having been reconciled, faith is given to given to them who were reconciled to God by His death while enemies and unbelievers.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus lays the condition for receiving eternal life and unbelievers don't qualify (John 5:24, John 3:14-15, Mark 16:15-16).

Even the faith to be saved must be received. It comes by hearing the Gospel and we all choose what we will listen to.

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. NKJV​

​

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, NIV​

John 3:18 contradicts your point - it says unbelievers are condemned. There is no scripture about God causing anyone to believe.

All have sinned and thus we cannot merit eternal life. The provision of Christ's atonement for sin is made for all people but its benefit (reconciliation) is not applied until individuals believe.

For example, the serpent lifted on the pole provided the means of healing for all, but its benefit was only applied to those who look at the serpent for healing. The same is true of Christ’s provision on Calvary - whoever looks to that provision in faith will be reconciled to God. See John 3:14-15.

One only receives the benefit of a check when they receive it (by cashing or depositing it).

You avoid the dilemma you are in, Christs death benefit has been applied to them He died for since they are reconciled to God by His death while unbelieving enemies Rom 5:10, whereas others are condemned by God while unbelieving enemies.Jn 3:18

 

[John Mullally]

You avoid the dilemma you are in, Christs death benefit has been applied to them He died for since they are reconciled to God by His death while unbelieving enemies Rom 5:10, whereas others are condemned by God while unbelieving enemies.Jn 3:18

The dilemma is all yours. Scripture is very clear that Christ died for all people (1 Timothy 2:6, 1 John 2:1-2, Hebrews 2:9). 1 Timothy 4:10 makes it clear that God is the savior of all people - that could not be said if Christ only died for some. Although reconciliation which is packaged with salvation is provided for all, that reconciliation is received at the moment we believe - thus some never benefit.

John 5:24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.​

John 3:14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.​

​

Pointing out that mankind are enemies of God (Romans 5:10), does not necessitate an inability to be reconciled to God through believing the Gospel (Mark 16:15-16).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Thats a benefit of having been reconciled, faith is given to given to them who were reconciled to God by His death while enemies and unbelievers.

Well, that doesn’t make any sense if you were to read the rest of the Bible.

For example: Jesus marveled at the centurion’s faith. Now, why would Jesus who is the second person of the Trinity marvel at what God the Father does? He wouldn’t. So it means Jesus marveled at the faith that Centurion exercised.

Also, Jesus said to the disciples in regards to the storms:

“Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith?”
(Matthew 8:26)

Paul says of the Jews that they were cut off because of unbelief.

“Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:” (Romans 11:20).

Paul doesn’t blame God for their unbelief.
In Romans 11:22, Paul tells us Gentile believers to continue in God’s goodness otherwise we will be cut like the Jews.

We are also told to… Continue in the faith (Acts 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

We are told…

“be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

Being faithful is a part of the faith. So why are we being told to do something that is a part of our faith if we automatically will exercise it?

James says he will show his faith by his works (See James 2:18).

You know…. By faith, Noah built the ark.
Noah was being faithful to God’s instructions but it required faith on his part to build the Ark.

Paul says,
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
(2 Thessalonians 2:10).

So those who perish received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved.

So the blame falls on those who perish who receive not the truth and not God.

Please simply learn to just read and believe all of your Bible. You will be amazed at what the Bible says vs what you want it to say.

 

[Brightfame52]

Reconciled unto blamelessness !


All for whom Christ died, by His death alone, even while they were enemies, unbelievers, by nature children of wrath, they even then were by His death reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now, being reconciled to God while enemies, they had the promise of being saved by His Life.

Also they have another promise to look forward to Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death[Rom 5:10], to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

All those Christ's death alone reconciled to God while they were enemies, they shall all be by that be presented Holy, and Unblameable, and unreprovable in His sight !

If this does not happen to all for whom He died, then His death was an utter failure ! 8

 

[Brightfame52]

Well, that doesn’t make any sense if you were to read the rest of the Bible.

For example: Jesus marveled at the centurion’s faith. Now, why would Jesus who is the second person of the Trinity marvel at what God the Father does? He wouldn’t. So it means Jesus marveled at the faith that Centurion exercised.

Also, Jesus said to the disciples in regards to the storms:

“Why are ye fearful, O ye of little faith?”
(Matthew 8:26)

Paul says of the Jews that they were cut off because of unbelief.

“Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:” (Romans 11:20).

Paul doesn’t blame God for their unbelief.
In Romans 11:22, Paul tells us Gentile believers to continue in God’s goodness otherwise we will be cut like the Jews.

We are also told to… Continue in the faith (Acts 14:22) (Colossians 1:23).

We are told…

“be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10).

Being faithful is a part of the faith. So why are we being told to do something that is a part of our faith if we automatically will exercise it?

James says he will show his faith by his works (See James 2:18).

You know…. By faith, Noah built the ark.
Noah was being faithful to God’s instructions but it required faith on his part to build the Ark.

Paul says,
“And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.”
(2 Thessalonians 2:10).

So those who perish received not the love of the truth that they MIGHT be saved.

So the blame falls on those who perish who receive not the truth and not God.

Please simply learn to just read and believe all of your Bible. You will be amazed at what the Bible says vs what you want it to say.

It makes sense to me, those reconciled by His death shall be saved by His Life, when they are saved by His Life they are given Faith, Repentance and other Spiritual Blessings.

 

[zoidar]

Reconciled unto blamelessness !


All for whom Christ died, by His death alone, even while they were enemies, unbelievers, by nature children of wrath, they even then were by His death reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now, being reconciled to God while enemies, they had the promise of being saved by His Life.

Also they have another promise to look forward to Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death[Rom 5:10], to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

All those Christ's death alone reconciled to God while they were enemies, they shall all be by that be presented Holy, and Unblameable, and unreprovable in His sight !

If this does not happen to all for whom He died, then His death was an utter failure ! 8

Sounds like you are saying: When we were enemies we were reconciled by Christ's death, and after being reconciled to God, we are still enemies to God, but much more will be saved by his life being reconciled. Why will we be saved by his life, if we are still His enemies?

If we are still enemies to God after being reconciled to God, then in what way is this a reconciliation?

 

[zoidar]

Reconciled unto blamelessness !


All for whom Christ died, by His death alone, even while they were enemies, unbelievers, by nature children of wrath, they even then were by His death reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now, being reconciled to God while enemies, they had the promise of being saved by His Life.

Also they have another promise to look forward to Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death[Rom 5:10], to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

All those Christ's death alone reconciled to God while they were enemies, they shall all be by that be presented Holy, and Unblameable, and unreprovable in His sight !

If this does not happen to all for whom He died, then His death was an utter failure ! 8

Btw "for if being enemies" is a much better translation than "while being enemies" IMO.

Young's Literal Translation
for if, being enemies, we have been reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved in his life

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It makes sense to me, those reconciled by His death shall be saved by His Life, when they are saved by His Life they are given Faith, Repentance and other Spiritual Blessings.

Well, unless you believe the Bible has only that verse then I can imagine it makes sense to you. But we believe the whole Bible and not just select verses taken out of context to the rest of the Bible. It’s why you have not explained the verses that refute your belief here.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Reconciled unto blamelessness !


All for whom Christ died, by His death alone, even while they were enemies, unbelievers, by nature children of wrath, they even then were by His death reconciled to God Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we[believers] were enemies[unbelievers], we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 5:10 is talking about how we were reconciled. But this is at birth. We are also to be saved by his life, as well. Meaning, Christ can work in your life. So there is more to God’s plan of salvation. We know Ephesians 2:8-9 says by grace we have been save through faith. It’s not without faith we have been saved. Romans 5:2 says we access God’s grace through faith. Grace is what saves us and we cannot access that grace unless we have faith. Yes, in another sense we all were reconciled by the death of His Son but this is when we came into the world as babies. Babies who die will be reconciled by the life of the Son of Jesus Christ. It does not mean we will remain reconciled if we sin again. I know. Your statements make us believe you can sin with impunity. But if you were to read Matthew 7:22-23, you would see that Jesus told those believers who did works in His name to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity or sin. So… you cannot use Romans 5:10 out of context to the rest of the Bible. Well, unless you want to play a gamble with your own soul, then be my guest, but you would only be deceiving yourself. Paul says be not deceived the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. He is warning believers about how they live. If they justify sin, they are not going to make it.

Now, being reconciled to God while enemies, they had the promise of being saved by His Life.

Have you ever misunderstood somebody before? They were saying one thing and you thought it meant something else? Does your reality over color what others say? This is what I believe you have done with the Bible. Even an axe murderer can quote the Bible as justification for his evil as he takes the life of his victim. It would not mean he is correct.

Do you know who George Sodini Is? He shot and killed some people and then turned the gun on himself. He left a suicide letter (of sorts) and he said that he would be saved despite what he did because of his belief on Jesus. Even his church said he was saved despite what he did. Is this the kind of belief you are pushing? Being enemies of God like condoning the idea that a believer can shoot people, and yet also be saved?
Have you not read about when Jesus said he that is of God hears God words? (John 8:47). Have you not read when Jesus said to the Jews that they are of their father the devil, and the lusts of the father they will do? It just doesn’t seem like you are being fair to what the whole Bible says. You are cherry picking those verses you want to hear from your own slanted point of view.

Also they have another promise to look forward to Col 1:21-22

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

22 In the body of his flesh through death[Rom 5:10], to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Come on now. Look at verse 23.

Colossians 1:21-23
21 "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

The condition is…. IF YE CONTINUE IN THE FAITH, etcetera.
You are quoting Scripture again out of context.

All those Christ's death alone reconciled to God while they were enemies, they shall all be by that be presented Holy, and Unblameable, and unreprovable in His sight !

If this does not happen to all for whom He died, then His death was an utter failure ! 8

Your imagining fairy tales. Christ’s death is exalted when we obey Him. Perhaps you also missed verses like Titus 2:11-12 that says that God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

 

[Brightfame52]

Those reconciled while enemies shall be saved by His life !

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

The againstchrist folks attempt to distort this blessed Truth of this verse, however they shall be proven liars and inconsistent every time. The Truths here are most gracious, and cannot be received by the natural mind of man, to give credence to 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

This verse condemns all who falsely believes that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception, the only way that could be true according to the Truth in this verse, one would have to become an Universalist, which is also a condemned belief !

Now here's how and why. Paul here is writing to believers, however he states of them, including himself, that even while they were enemies, unbelievers, they were reconciled to God by the death of His Son ! Now to be reconciled to God is to be saved from the penalty of your sins, and to be received into the favor of God. Its the word katallassō and means:

I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)

B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one

C.
to receive one into favour

They are not now in a condemned state before God, but yet they are still enemies !

Now, what is said / promised of those who are reconciled while yet being enemies according to this verse : Notice Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled [while enemies], we shall be saved by his life.

Understand, those already reconciled while being enemies, much more being reconciled, the Promise to them is that they shall be saved by His Life !

There it is, if Christ died for all without exception, and they were reconciled, then the promise of scripture is that they shall be [ A Divine Promise] saved by His Life !

Now, does the bible teach anywhere that all without exception shall be saved by Christ's Life ? The answer is absolutely no ! 8

 

[Brightfame52]

Sounds like you are saying: When we were enemies we were reconciled by Christ's death, and after being reconciled to God, we are still enemies to God, but much more will be saved by his life being reconciled. Why will we be saved by his life, if we are still His enemies?

If we are still enemies to God after being reconciled to God, then in what way is this a reconciliation?

I have already given my explanation of these things, read the thread.

 

[zoidar]

I have already given my explanation of these things, read the thread.

Ok, still don't get your view.

Would you answer these two questions with a yes or no?

1. Before faith, are we still enemies of God after reconciliation?

2. Before faith, are we still under God's wrath after reconciliation?

Thanks!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I have already given my explanation of these things, read the thread.

Jesus said things like, “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you”?
Do you believe that being an enemy of God continues through your whole life as a Christian?
See John 15:14. So how can a person be a friend and an enemy with God at the same time?

How do you reconcile 1 John 2:3-4?
The short answer is that you cannot. You just think Romans 5:10 is the only of few key verses we are to believe in the Bible.
Do you ignore parts of the Bible? If so, why do you do that?

 

[Brightfame52]

Those reconciled while enemies shall be saved by His life ! 2

Now what exactly is that which they shall be saved from if they are already, by being reconciled, saved from the penalty of their sins ? They shall be saved by His Life from being enemies, for remember they are already saved from the penalty of their sins by Christ's death, but still remaining enemies , this they shall be saved from as well. Here is a verse of scripture that is instructive here Lk 1:71-74

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

As unbelievers and enemies we are being held bondage to the enemy of our soul the devil, for it is he that holds us in unbelief the prison, so that we may not believe and be saved as Per Lk 8:12

12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 8

Yes, the devil is the Strong man that binds us in a state of nature, thats why it is written Matt 12:29

29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

This means that by nature we are the devils goods, and his ownership is known by our enmity and disobedience and unbelief against God !

We need to be delivered from this strong man the devil, saved from him as implied i Lk 1:71,74,75

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

While we are in unbelief we are in the hand of our enemy the devil. Now, to those who are reconciled to God by His Sons death, while they are enemies, hence being so reconciled, they shall be saved from all their Spiritual enemies by His Life, so that they can serve without fear

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

So if we erroneously teach that Christ died for all without exception, then the consequences of that if we are consistent with the Truth of Rom 5:10 will be Lk 1:74-75

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

 

[Brightfame52]

Ok, still don't get your view.

Would you answer these two questions with a yes or no?

1. Before faith, are we still enemies of God after reconciliation?

2. Before faith, are we still under God's wrath after reconciliation?

Thanks!

I have already explained my view in which those things are addressed. You just dont get it.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus said things like, “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you”?
Do you believe that being an enemy of God continues through your whole life as a Christian?
See John 15:14. So how can a person be a friend and an enemy with God at the same time?

How do you reconcile 1 John 2:3-4?
The short answer is that you cannot. You just think Romans 5:10 is the only of few key verses we are to believe in the Bible.
Do you ignore parts of the Bible? If so, why do you do that?

I believe what I have posted thus far and I see no need to reconcile anything.

 

[zoidar]

I have already explained my view in which those things are addressed. You just dont get it.

Would you direct me where this is answered?