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For those who argue for the omnibenevolence of God…

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Presbyterian Continuist

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Here's where I throw my hat into the ring.

Evil started long before the foundation of the world. It started when Lucifer decided to try and share God's throne and had the support of a third of the angels. It was Lucifer's pride that brought evil into existence. Therefore, God had worked out His plan for redemption long before He created the universe, space, the laws of physics, and time. The purpose for His plan of redemption was to eradicate evil from existence. He knew beforehand that man was going to fall, and He already had His Son prepared to come to earth as a man, to die on the Cross as a God/man to take the full force of God's wrath for sin upon Himself, be raised from the dead as as forerunner of many others who will be raised from the dead in due time. When Satan, his angels, and all those who have sided with him are cast into the lake of fire, evil will be eradicated, and new creation with the New Jerusalem will be here without any sign of evil at all.

When Adam disobeyed God, evil entered into his heart. He did not become mortal as some have previously thought. If we read the Scripture carefully, Adam was still subject to decay consistently with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics. What was to keep Adam remaining permanently alive and not subject to decay was eating from the tree of life. This is why he and Eve were cast out of the garden and a guard was put on the tree of life so that no one could get to it and eat the fruit of it. God did not want anyone to eat that fruit because they knew that man, along with his evil heart, would continue to live on, perhaps for ever. This would have upset His plan for redemption - to get rid of evil once and for all. Adam was created brand new, but would eventually have succumbed to decay if he did not eat of the tree of life. So, being cast out and away from the tree of life, that is exactly what happened to him approximately 960 years later.

The Bible is silent on what was going on with the animals and birds before Adam sinned. Consistent with the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics, they would have been subject to decay. The birds would have eaten insects, the herbivores would have eaten plants, and the carnivorous animals would have had other animals for prey. This is why in the Scripture God commanded that the whole earth be fully populated with as many animal types as the earth could hold. As an animal species became extinct through death and decay, God just created more up to the end of the 6th day, but then He stopped creating in the 7th day. Man was not subject to the same death and decay because of the availability of the tree of life, until he disobeyed, and then death reigned over man along with all the others. I know that some will deny what I am saying about the animals and birds, but all they have to do is to think about what the animals would have to live on if they didn't have insects, plants, and animals for food.

Oh, by the way, the curse was on the ground, not on the insects, birds and animals. That's what the Scripture actually says. Many assume that the curse involved all life on the earth, but they are adding their own assumptions to the actual wording of the Scripture.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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You’re saying that some destruction is benevolent.
The destruction of all mankind except Noah and his family was generally benevolent, because the world was so violent with people murdering each other, that given time, mankind would have ended up extinct if God had not have stepped in and put a stop to it. It was basically the same with Sodom and Gomorrah, because the evil that was in those cities, if left unchecked, would have spread out and affected the whole known world and would have caused much harm to mankind in general, so God to put a stop to it for the good of the rest of us. Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, and to show that this is not acceptable, to stop it being repeated in others, they had to die. In more modern times we see that Hitler and Stalin didn't live very long, because if they had have, then our world would have been an entirely different place. Notice that Queen "bloody" Mary of England died young. This was God stopping her evil reign killing off all the Protestants in England. We notice that in more modern times people like Idi Amin, Sadaam Hussein, and Osama bin Laden died before their time. This shows that God monitors the ongoing development of human history all the time and acts to ensure that evil men and women who have the potential to cause great harm are eliminated beforehand.
 
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bbbbbbb

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The destruction of all mankind except Noah and his family was generally benevolent, because the world was so violent with people murdering each other, that given time, mankind would have ended up extinct if God had not have stepped in and put a stop to it. It was basically the same with Sodom and Gomorrah, because the evil that was in those cities, if left unchecked, would have spread out and affected the whole known world and would have caused much harm to mankind in general, so God to put a stop to it for the good of the rest of us. Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, and to show that this is not acceptable, to stop it being repeated in others, they had to die. In more modern times we see that Hitler and Stalin didn't live very long, because if they had have, then our world would have been an entirely different place. Notice that Queen "bloody" Mary of England died young. This was God stopping her evil reign killing off all the Protestants in England. We notice that in more modern times people like Idi Amin, Sadaam Hussein, and Osama bin Laden died before their time. This shows that God monitors the ongoing development of human history all the time and acts to ensure that evil men and women who have the potential to cause great harm are eliminated beforehand.
I enjoy this line of reasoning. My brother had an interesting discussion with a fellow church-member who was solidly pro-abortion. He explained it to my brother that abortion is the best thing that can happen to people because aborted fetuses get an automatic ticket to heaven, whereas if they are born and grow to maturity the vast majority of them will end up eternally consigned to the lake of fire. Thus, a truly benevolent God would arrange to have folks' lives snuffed out as early as possible so that they would enjoy the bliss of heaven forever.
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I enjoy this line of reasoning. My brother had an interesting discussion with a fellow church-member who was solidly pro-abortion. He explained it to my brother that abortion is the best thing that can happen to people because aborted fetuses get an automatic ticket to heaven, whereas if they are born and grow to maturity the vast majority of them will end up eternally consigned to the lake of fire. Thus, a truly benevolent God would arrange to have folks' lives snuffed out as early as possible so that they would enjoy the bliss of heaven forever.
That reasoning about abortion is a bit suspect to me.
 
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bling

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It’s the most loving thing you can do, to love someone who rejects your love.
God is loving (all) someone who rejects His love, but for God's Love to be received, it has to be humbly accepted the way it is given, "as pure undeserved charity" or the transaction is not completed (this is what happened in the Heb. 18 parable). God Loves everyone all the time they exist, but that does not mean all people receive God's Love.
 
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Hammster

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The destruction of all mankind except Noah and his family was generally benevolent, because the world was so violent with people murdering each other, that given time, mankind would have ended up extinct if God had not have stepped in and put a stop to it. It was basically the same with Sodom and Gomorrah, because the evil that was in those cities, if left unchecked, would have spread out and affected the whole known world and would have caused much harm to mankind in general, so God to put a stop to it for the good of the rest of us. Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Holy Spirit, and to show that this is not acceptable, to stop it being repeated in others, they had to die. In more modern times we see that Hitler and Stalin didn't live very long, because if they had have, then our world would have been an entirely different place. Notice that Queen "bloody" Mary of England died young. This was God stopping her evil reign killing off all the Protestants in England. We notice that in more modern times people like Idi Amin, Sadaam Hussein, and Osama bin Laden died before their time. This shows that God monitors the ongoing development of human history all the time and acts to ensure that evil men and women who have the potential to cause great harm are eliminated beforehand.
I’ve never been destroyed before, but I’m thinking that if I was, it wouldn’t be because someone loved me.
 
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Hammster

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God is loving (all) someone who rejects His love, but for God's Love to be received, it has to be humbly accepted the way it is given, "as pure undeserved charity" or the transaction is not completed (this is what happened in the Heb. 18 parable). God Loves everyone all the time they exist, but that does not mean all people receive God's Love.
You are moving the goalposts. We are talking about God supposedly loving all, not about God receiving love.
 
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sawdust

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You are moving the goalposts. We are talking about God supposedly loving all, not about God receiving love.
Hang on a sec, aren't you moving the goalposts too? I thought you said it's about God loving all equally, not just about God loving all?
 
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Presbyterian Continuist

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I’ve never been destroyed before, but I’m thinking that if I was, it wouldn’t be because someone loved me.
The guy who did the Oklahoma bombing that killed many adults and children got the death penalty, not because he was loved, but further potential innocent victims were loved and protected from any further bombings that he might do.
 
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Hammster

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Hang on a sec, aren't you moving the goalposts too? I thought you said it's about God loving all equally, not just about God loving all?
Actually, I’m arguing that God is not omnibenevolent.
 
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Hammster

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The guy who did the Oklahoma bombing that killed many adults and children got the death penalty, not because he was loved, but further potential innocent victims were loved and protected from any further bombings that he might do.
Exactly. God destroys His enemies, not those He loves. He crushed His Son for those He loves.
 
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sawdust

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Actually, I’m arguing that God is not omnibenevolent.
Then I refer you to your post #26 where you responded to my question asking for clarification of your topic.

You seem to be vacillating between God being good and God being love. I'm not sure which one you want to argue?

Maybe it would be helpful if you gave a distinct definition of what you mean by omnibenevolent so we are all on the same page?
 
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Hammster

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Then I refer you to your post #26 where you responded to my question asking for clarification of your topic.

You seem to be vacillating between God being good and God being love. I'm not sure which one you want to argue?

Maybe it would be helpful if you gave a distinct definition of what you mean by omnibenevolent so we are all on the same page?
Post 26 says the exact same thing.

Omnibenevolent is a term used by some to indicate that God is all-loving to all people.
 
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Fervent

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This topic is quite strange to me...especially since it always seems to be argued by some who adamentally believe they happen to be among the privileged few, despite it being rather explicit that God is not a respecter of persons and partiality being a sin.
 
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Hammster

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This topic is quite strange to me...especially since it always seems to be argued by some who adamentally believe they happen to be among the privileged few, despite it being rather explicit that God is not a respecter of persons and partiality being a sin.
You may want to check out the context of the verses that talk about God not being a respecter of persons.
 
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Fervent

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You may want to check out the context of the verses that talk about God not being a respecter of persons.
Regardless of the context, the verses are explicit that there is no favortism with God. So why do you argue that God plays favorites?
 
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Fervent

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Who loved Isaac but hated Esau?
I believe you mean who loved Jacob and hated Esau, and that is not about God playing favorites but national election. Esau despised his birthright, and so his descendants were excluded from the promise. This is one place where context is of the utmost importance, since it is about national election rather than particular election.
 
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bling

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You are moving the goalposts. We are talking about God supposedly loving all, not about God receiving love.
He that is forgiven much will Love much (Luke 7) Forgiving being Loving on God's part, us accepting that Love (Forgiving) on our part results in us Loving God. This is true. but that
was not what I was talking about. I did not address "God receiving our Love", but about our receiving or rejecting God's Love. God still Loves those who reject His Love, but the transaction of Love (like the transaction of forgiveness Heb. 18) does not take place.
 
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