WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

SabbathBlessings · Apr 10, 2023

expos4ever said:
I know of no scripture that asserts that the Sabbath will endure until "new heaven / new earth". Can you provide one, please?

Not just until the New Heaven/New Earth. God gave the Sabbath to man at Creation Mark 2:27 Genesis 1:26 Genesis 2:1-3 and it will never end.

Isaiah 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

The Ten Commandments which include the Sabbath commandment are in God's Most Holy Temple in heaven. Revelation 11:19 The earthy temple was an exact miniature of God's Heavenly temple where He dwells. Hebrews 8:5

expos4ever · Apr 10, 2023

Davy said:
For example...

Gen 49:1
49 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, "Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days."
KJV

I do not necessarily take issue with your larger point, but this text, as rendered in the KJV is clearly misleading. Not that many translation have something like this:

Then Jacob summoned his sons and said, “Assemble yourselves, so that I may tell you what will happen to you in the [a]days to come

Granted, the [a] footnote reads "literal: end of the days" so I can see why the KJV rendered it as "the last days".

But, in context, this is a prophecy about the sons of Jacob. Look at the next few verses:

Gather together and listen, sons of Jacob;
Yes, listen to Israel your father.
3 “Reuben, you are my firstborn,
My might and the beginning of my strength,
Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
4 [b]Uncontrollable as water, you shall not have preeminence,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it—he went up to my couch.
5 “Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Their [c]swords are implements of violence....

The prophecy is not about the "last days" that still remain ahead, but rather about the lives of Jacob's sons.

expos4ever · Apr 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Not just until the New Heaven/New Earth. God gave the Sabbath to man at Creation Mark 2:27 Genesis 1:26 Genesis 2:1-3 and it will never end.

Genesis 1:26 reads thusly:

Then God said, “[a]Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and [b]let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.”

I think you may have cited the wrong verse

As for Genesis 2:1-3, it does not make any mention at all about how long the Sabbath will last:

And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly [a]lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created [b]and made

Likewise, Mark 2:27 provides no indication of how long the Sabbath will last:

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath [a]was made [b]for man, and not man [c]for the Sabbath.

SabbathBlessings · Apr 10, 2023

expos4ever said:
Genesis 1:26 reads thusly:

Then God said, “[a]Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and [b]let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.”

I think you may have cited the wrong verse

As for Genesis 2:1-3, it does not make any mention at all about how long the Sabbath will last:

And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly [a]lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created [b]and made

Likewise, Mark 2:27 provides no indication of how long the Sabbath will last:

Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath [a]was made [b]for man, and not man [c]for the Sabbath.

Isaiah 66:23 makes it clear the Sabbath is forever.

Jesus says the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27. Man was created on the sixth day Genesis 1:26 before the very first Sabbath celebrated in God's presence Genesis 2:1-3

Sin separated man from God so instead of worshipping in His presence, we worship Him by following His Word. Once sin and sinners are no more the saints will be reconciled with God and once again will come before the Lord on the Sabbath for worship Isaiah 66:23

trophy33 · Apr 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
We are in Christ through faith Gal 3:26

Paul said those with faith uphold the law,. Romans 3:31

Paul said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 The Sabbath is a commandment of God and God wants us to spend time with Him on His holy and blessed day that He sanctified for this reason- holy use .

"whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law" R 3:19

Which is not us. Those were Jews till Christ:

"Before this faith came, we were held in custody under the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. So the law became our guardian to lead us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. Now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."
Gal 3:23-25

1. Law has never been given to Gentiles
2. Regarding Jews, it was given to them till Christ, only. When Christ (through Titus) came in judgement and destroyed the temple, it was the visible finish of that era, the last generation.

Leaf473 · Apr 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
My answers have stayed the same

When we get down to details, I believe you tend to do more responses than answers. When details are brought up, people who endorse partial law theology tend to become vague in their responses.

For example, I can't recall your answer to this,
Is it the commandments only that matter? Or do the statutes also matter?

SabbathBlessings said:
ever since we started chatting close to three years ago,

And it's been a great time

SabbathBlessings said:
you have changed your stance more than once from we should keep the commandments to not keeping and back and forth

We keep the principles of the commandments, we don't keep the letters of the commandments. So you're right, it's keeping and not keeping

SabbathBlessings said:
so the same questions you keep rephrasing and re-asking

I've rephrased them as I have learned the lay of the land, so to speak, of partial law theology.

I ask them repeatedly because it's the area where those who endorse partial law theology don't have answers. Responses, yes.

SabbathBlessings said:
are not for my benefit.

It is for your benefit, but of course, you don't have to reply. It is also for the benefit of other people who will read this thread later

SabbathBlessings said:
Scripture is my guide and that is what everything must be tested by.

Amen! And,

Proverbs 27
As iron sharpens iron, So a person sharpens the countenance of their friend.

SabbathBlessings said:
Anyway- need to run God bless and take care.

The Lord bless you and keep you :amen:

Leaf473 · Apr 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Isaiah 66:23 makes it clear the Sabbath is forever.

Using that approach, this lasts forever as well, "...and they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the people who have transgressed against Me."

SabbathBlessings · Apr 10, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Using that approach, this lasts forever as well, "...and they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the people who have transgressed against Me."

Does it say the saints will be looking at corpses for eternity?......its best not to add to add our ideas to God's Word. Will the saints see the wicked corpses yes the bible is clear on this.

Leaf473 · Apr 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Does it say the saints will be looking at corpses for eternity?......its best not to add to add our ideas to God's Word. Will the saints see the wicked being destroyed, yes the bible is clear on this.

It shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord. And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the people
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.

Well... it looks like the same people who are coming to worship from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another.

SabbathBlessings · Apr 10, 2023

Leaf473 said:
It shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord. And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the people
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.

Well... it looks like the same people who are coming to worship from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another.

I never said it was different people, it does not say the saints will be looking at the wicked corpses for eternity, but we have free will to believe what we want.

Revelation 21:5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

Leaf473 · Apr 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I never said it was different people, it does not say the saints will be looking at the wicked corpses for eternity, but we have free will to believe what we want.

Revelation 21:5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

Well, if it's the saints who are

from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

for all eternity, and it's not different people, then that would be the saints, it looks like.

"For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain."

SabbathBlessings · Apr 10, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Well, if it's the saints who are

from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

for all eternity, and it's not different people, then that would be the saints, it looks like.

"For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain."

Sorry you're not following.

Leaf473 · Apr 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
Sorry you're not following.

Please explain more

SabbathBlessings said:
Isaiah 66:23 makes it clear the Sabbath is forever.

Okay...

Leaf473 said:
Using that approach, this lasts forever as well, "...and they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the people who have transgressed against Me."

Then you brought up the idea of the saints

SabbathBlessings said:
Does it say the saints will be looking at corpses for eternity?

If it's not the saints looking at the corpses forever, then who?

Or are you saying that the coming and worshiping part is forever, but the going forth and looking part is temporary?

Davy · Apr 12, 2023

expos4ever said:
I do not necessarily take issue with your larger point, but this text, as rendered in the KJV is clearly misleading. Not that many translation have something like this:

Then Jacob summoned his sons and said, “Assemble yourselves, so that I may tell you what will happen to you in the [a]days to come

Granted, the [a] footnote reads "literal: end of the days" so I can see why the KJV rendered it as "the last days".

But, in context, this is a prophecy about the sons of Jacob. Look at the next few verses:

Gather together and listen, sons of Jacob;
Yes, listen to Israel your father.
3 “Reuben, you are my firstborn,
My might and the beginning of my strength,
Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
4 [b]Uncontrollable as water, you shall not have preeminence,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it—he went up to my couch.
5 “Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Their [c]swords are implements of violence....

The prophecy is not about the "last days" that still remain ahead, but rather about the lives of Jacob's sons.

I beg to differ, hugely differ.

There are prophetic parameters Jacob gave there which unless you understood their relationship for today, who they apply to and where, then one would make the mistake you have made in saying those things are not about the very end of this world.

expos4ever · Apr 13, 2023

Davy said:
I beg to differ, hugely differ.

There are prophetic parameters Jacob gave there which unless you understood their relationship for today, who they apply to and where, then one would make the mistake you have made in saying those things are not about the very end of this world.

The case is beyond clear - this prophecy was about the lives of the sons of Joseph.

Again: First we get this:

Then Jacob summoned his sons and said, “Assemble yourselves, so that I may tell you what will happen to you in the [a]days to come

There can be no mistake - this is a prophecy about what will happen to Jacob's sons! And if that were not obvious enough, we then get the specifics:

Gather together and listen, sons of Jacob;
Yes, listen to Israel your father.
3 “Reuben, you are my firstborn,
My might and the beginning of my strength,
Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
4 [b]Uncontrollable as water, you shall not have preeminence,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it—he went up to my couch.
5 “Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Their [c]swords are implements of violence....

HIM · Apr 14, 2023

myst33 said:
The letter to Galatians, in summary:

1. Both Gentiles and Jews were enslaved - Gentiles to those who are not real gods and Jews to the Law.

To sin.

myst33 said:
2. God sent His son to make us all as sons and heirs.

It is singular not plural. We are all one in Christ. Not us but Christ.

myst33 said:
We are no longer slaves.

To sin through Christ hence no need for law unless one is still sinning. No need for tutors or the schoolmaster. For we are dead nevertheless we live. Yet not us but Christ lives in us and the life we now live in the flesh we live by the faith of Christ. For we have put on Christ and live through the spirit.

myst33 said:
3. Galatians were confused by Judaizers who came from James and wanted to change one enslavement for another, now the Jewish one, and to observe special days and seasons.

No where does it say what you say. It does say,
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

myst33 said:
All that matters is faith expressed by love.

What faith?

trophy33 · Apr 14, 2023

HIM said:
No where does it say what you say. It does say,
Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

You must continue to read the rest of the letter, Paul is returning to it several times.

Davy · Apr 14, 2023

expos4ever said:
The case is beyond clear - this prophecy was about the lives of the sons of Joseph.

Again: First we get this:

Then Jacob summoned his sons and said, “Assemble yourselves, so that I may tell you what will happen to you in the [a]days to come

There can be no mistake - this is a prophecy about what will happen to Jacob's sons! And if that were not obvious enough, we then get the specifics:

Gather together and listen, sons of Jacob;
Yes, listen to Israel your father.
3 “Reuben, you are my firstborn,
My might and the beginning of my strength,
Preeminent in dignity and preeminent in power.
4 [b]Uncontrollable as water, you shall not have preeminence,
Because you went up to your father’s bed;
Then you defiled it—he went up to my couch.
5 “Simeon and Levi are brothers;
Their [c]swords are implements of violence....

Those prophecies Jacob gave to his 12 sons for the last days, like he said...

Gen 49:1
49 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
KJV

Just because you are not 'given' to understand them, doesn't mean you can try to change for when Jacob himself said he gave that to his 12 sons that represent the 12 tribes of Israel.

What that Genesis 49 chapter means, and reveals, is that ALL... 12 tribes of Israel STILL EXIST in the world today. The Jews and the world may not know who and where they are today, but God knows, as He promised to gather them in final (Amos 9:9; Ezekiel 37 with the stick of Joseph, etc.). And not only that, but Apostle Paul also quoted directly from the Book of Hosea to Gentiles when Hosea was written specifically to the ten tribe "house of Israel" only.

OldWiseGuy · Apr 15, 2023

HIM said:
Not so. They were placed to be a Kingdom of Priest, a Holy nation before the whole world. And all who seen God's glory and Joined themselves to Him were to live as they

Where is this 'holy nation' today?

HIM · Apr 15, 2023

OldWiseGuy said:
Where is this 'holy nation' today?

The Body of Christ, the Temple of God.

WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

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