WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SATURDAY

[HIM]

Absolutely! Now, the true church, the one that we don't want to cause division in, is it about 20 or 30 million strong? Or is it closer to about a billion?

Numbers? Many are called few are chosen. It has only ever been a remanent.

 

[HIM]

Keep it simple, one logical argument per post. If it will be too long, I will react to the first point and ignore the rest. This should be a conversation, not an exchange of long monologues.

If it were simple we would not be having this conversation.

 

[HIM]

Do those passages cover every law in the law of Moses?

Proverbs 2
...to turn our ears to wisdom, and apply our hearts to understanding.

No in short. Romans 6, and Colossians 2, deal with circumcision and how Baptism circumvents it in that we have cut off the sins of the flesh, the old man and now through Christ live. Galatians 3 deals with appearance in that we have put on Christ and are now one in Him. Hebrews 7-9 deal with the priestly ministry and Temple service and How Christ being our High Priests fulfils those Laws.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

If it seemed I defined the early church as only the first church in Jerusalem, then its not how I see it.

Even after the transformation of the majority of Christians from Jewish environment to Greek/Roman environment, its still the early church for me.

What I said was that James was our first Bishop. This was before anyone set foot in Rome. That was all.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Thanks that will give me something to look at.

Apostolic Succession

Eusebius and others wrote regarding James as being first Bishop of the Church

 

[Leaf473]

Because modern government is obligated to provide necessary services to its citizens all the time (army, police, firefighters, transportation, banking services, healthcare services, telecommunication, housing services, energy, waste systems, water purifiers, banking and monetary services...) we "cause" millions of people to work simply by existing and living in a society.

Even if we sat at home in dark, not moving and not doing anything, we still "cause" the system around us to be ready for our needs.

Even in Israel today, the army is ready 7 days a week.

I think I read something in the law of Moses about how if Israel would carefully keep the law, their enemies would be so scared of them that they wouldn't attack on the Sabbath. I'm not sure if I'm remembering it right.

 

[Leaf473]

Numbers? Many are called few are chosen. It has only ever been a remanent.

Okay... That sounds closer to the 20 million figure today.

The remnant church, does it keep a 7th Day Sabbath as the Lord's Day?

I'm not trying to get you in trouble here, I'm just wanting to show where I think the divisiveness comes in

 

[Leaf473]

No in short. Romans 6, and Colossians 2, deal with circumcision and how Baptism circumvents it in that we have cut off the sins of the flesh, the old man and now through Christ live. Galatians 3 deals with appearance in that we have put on Christ and are now one in Him. Hebrews 7-9 deal with the priestly ministry and Temple service and How Christ being our High Priests fulfils those Laws.

Are you understanding Galatians 3 to say that we don't need to put fringes on our clothes anymore, or tear our clothes under certain conditions? Or did you mean other appearances?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I cannot find any relevant sources about EOC or OOC keeping or honoring Sabbath. Anyway, the context was the early church.

You can also add The Ethiopian Orthodox Church

 

[trophy33]

The letter to Galatians, in summary:

1. Both Gentiles and Jews were enslaved - Gentiles to those who are not real gods and Jews to the Law.

2. God sent His son to make us all as sons and heirs. We are no longer slaves.

3. Galatians were confused by Judaizers who came from James and wanted to change one enslavement for another, now the Jewish one, and to observe special days and seasons.

4. Paul was perplexed that Galatians are so easily led astray by Judaizers and reminded them to stand firm in the truth of the Gospel. All that matters is faith expressed by love.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The letter to Galatians, in summary:

1. Both Gentiles and Jews were enslaved - Gentiles to those who are not real gods and Jews to the Law.

2. God sent His son to make us all as sons and heirs. We are no longer slaves.

3. Galatians were confused by Judaizers who came from James and wanted to change one enslavement for another, now the Jewish one, and to observe special days and seasons.

4. Paul was perplexed that Galatians are so easily led astray by Judaizers and reminded them to stand firm in the truth of the Gospel. All that matters is faith expressed by love.

We are in Christ through faith Gal 3:26

Paul said those with faith uphold the law,. Romans 3:31

Paul said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 The Sabbath is a commandment of God and God wants us to spend time with Him on His holy and blessed day that He sanctified for this reason- holy use .

 

[Leaf473]

We are in Christ through faith Gal 3:26

Paul said those with faith uphold the law,. Romans 3:31

But that's not the end of the story;
we both agree that at least some parts of the law have ended,
and we don't take those actions anymore.

Paul said what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 The Sabbath is a commandment of God and God wants us to spend time with Him on His holy and blessed day that He sanctified for this reason- holy use .

And we both agree that at least some of those commandments are kept symbolically, like Passover.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But that's not the end of the story;
we both agree that at least some parts of the law have ended,
and we don't take those actions anymore.

And we both agree that at least some of those commandments are kept symbolically, like Passover.

Show me scripture that says the passover is a commandment…..


Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it.

Numbers 9:12 They shall leave none of it until morning, nor break one of its bones. According to all the ordinances of the Passover they shall keep it.

Neh 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

 

[Leaf473]

Show me scripture that says the passover is a commandment…..


Exodus 12:43 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: No foreigner shall eat it.

Numbers 9:12 They shall leave none of it until morning, nor break one of its bones. According to all the ordinances of the Passover they shall keep it.

Neh 9:13 “You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

I hadn't seen that before, that the Passover was an ordinance. Thank you for that

But do we agree about the part that at least some parts of the law have ended,
and we don't take those actions anymore? That upholding the law is not the same as doing it?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I hadn't seen that before, that the Passover was an ordinance. Thank you for that

But do we agree about the part that at least some parts of the law have ended,
and we don't take those actions anymore? That upholding the law is not the same as doing it?

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

 

[Leaf473]

James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.

Right, but we agree that's being a doer of only part of the law at most, don't we?

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Is that commandments only? Like, it's not the instructions called "laws"?

The Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?
Exodus 16

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Right, but we agree that's being a doer of only part of the law at most, don't we?

Is that commandments only? Like, it's not the instructions called "laws"?

The Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?
Exodus 16

My suggestion would be to study the laws, commandments and His Word and ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit, you have been asking the same questions for years, most have been answered more than once and not sure going through it again would make much difference, so I will leave it as I wish you well in seeking the Truth of His Word.

 

[Leaf473]

My suggestion would be to study the laws, commandments and His Word and ask for guidance from the Holy Spirit,

I have, and what I learned is that there was no reasonable scriptural way to divide up the entire law of Moses into today and yesterday.

you have been asking the same questions for years,

The questions I ask are for your benefit. I have answers that I am happy with And I'm sure you do, too.

But our answers are different, and since this is a discussion forum, we can discuss the differences, if you like.

most have been answered more than once and not sure going through it again would make much difference,

I think it would make a difference if you would be willing to go into the details. For example, is it the commandments only that matter? Or do the statutes also matter?

so I will leave it as I wish you well in seeking the Truth of His Word.

And also with you, my sister!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I have, and what I learned is that there was no reasonable scriptural way to divide up the entire law of Moses into today and yesterday.

The questions I ask are for your benefit. I have answers that I am happy with And I'm sure you do, too.

But our answers are different, and since this is a discussion forum, we can discuss the differences, if you like.

I think it would make a difference if you would be willing to go into the details. For example, is it the commandments only that matter? Or do the statutes also matter?

And also with you, my sister!

My answers have stayed the same ever since we started chatting close to three years ago, you have changed your stance more than once from we should keep the commandments to not keeping and back and forth, so the same questions you keep rephrasing and re-asking are not for my benefit. Scripture is my guide and that is what everything must be tested by.

Anyway- need to run God bless and take care.

 

[expos4ever]

Which day does God claim as His in His Word from the beginning (Creation) to the end (New Heaven/ New Earth)?

I know of no scripture that asserts that the Sabbath will endure until "new heaven / new earth". Can you provide one, please?