Womens roles in the church

LoveofTruth said:

What?
Ridiculous

and yes 1 Cor 14 does speak about judging. Also read 1 Cor 5 and 6 and 1 Cor 2:15 about judging.
So again, a we have seen often here, you are in error.

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I am not in error. You are the one talking about women “judging abs.” Why can’t you just admit that it was a typo on your part?

LoveofTruth said:

Avoid foolish jesting

Ephesians 5: 4. Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.”

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I am going by what you wrote. Why can’t you just say something like “sorry, typo” instead of defending your mistake.

LoveofTruth said:

The word “abs” is and , I admit I make a typo on this word my phone is small and I hit the b instead of the n which is right beside it often. I will try to correct this.

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You should have said that right away instead of telling me how wrong I was. I thought the humor in my initial post about your typo was clear, and obviously one other person got it.

LoveofTruth said:

The prophets can speak two or three and let the other judge, Paul wrote. So this judging of prophesy is to be done but the limit is in women doing so over men and especially wives questioning their husbands (which can take a judging form) in the church. This would contradict God’s order for husbands snd wives in many places in scripture such as Ephesians 5 etc.

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Christians are under grace, not under OT law. The Spirit gives gifts to whomever He chooses. I know of nothing in the Bible that says that gifts of the Spirit are dependent on gender.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11, "Now there are different gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are different ministries, but the same Lord. And there are different results, but the same God who produces all of them in everyone. To each person the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the benefit of all. For one person is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, and another the message of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another performance of miracles, to another prophecy, and to another discernment of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. It is one and the same Spirit, distributing as he decides to each person, who produces all these things."

The KJV does say "man" but the Greek pronoun means either gender.

LoveofTruth said:

Maybe read my first post on page 1 again if you haven’t.

I didn’t say that women can’t prophesy.

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I know.
I'm just trying to work out - seriously - how this fits in with verses about women being silent and not teaching.
You my not have said this, but others have; that a woman cannot speak in church. In my first thread on this forum on this subject, a man said that his wife didn't even sing, or say "Amen" in church because of the Scripture that said she can't. Years ago I went to a church in which the men did everything, and again, that was due to the Scriptures in 1 Cor 14 and 1 Tim 2:12.

Yet prophesy - proclaiming God's word - involves teaching.

LoveofTruth said:

It is the judging and questioning their husbands and by implication the men in the meetings they can’t do.

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Yet Deborah was a judge and told Barak what the Lord was saying to him.

1 Corinthians 14 says that women should be asking questions of their husbands.
If they want to know about something they should ask their OWN husbands at home - which suggests to me that some were simply turning to the nearest man and asking him questions.
That would better fit with the teaching on husbands being head and wives submitting to them. Women, ask your questions at home, in private and to the right person; don't undermine their authority, nor that of the preacher, by calling out in the middle of a meeting.

LoveofTruth said:

And yes Paul does put limits in the gifts in the meetings . I marvel at your statement that he doesn’t.

Consider ,

1 Corinthians 14: 27. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. 28. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. 29. Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.”

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He's not putting limits on the gifts - and certainly not gender related limits; he's just asking for some order in a meeting. So that there are not 6 people speaking in tongues all at once, which would mean that no one was able to hear.

Either the Corinthians were all so eager to use their gifts that they just went for it, without any kind of order - or they were so keen to show off that they had gifts, that they didn't worry about anyone else. Considering there were divisions and quarrels in the church, 1 Corinthians 3:3, considering Paul's disgust at the way they celebrated the Lord's Supper, 1 Corinthians 11:17-22, considering his analogy as the church as a body, with everyone needing each other and considering that he said that love, which is not jealous, is the best way of all; I'd be inclined to go with that latter view.
He even said, "FOR God is not a God of disorder, but of peace". And that verse comes before the one about women not speaking in church, 1 Corinthians 14:33, 1 Corinthians 14:35.

So the reason for the disorder is not that women speak/prophesy/teach, which somehow upsets the "natural order", but that 5 or 6 people were speaking in the meetings at one time.

Archivist said:

And I have never once said that those who oppose female clergy are sinning.

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It wouldn't concern me if you did.

Archivist said:

Rather I have said multiple times that if you do not believe that women should be pastors then don’t join a denomination that ordains women.

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I won't.

Archivist said:

Don’t say that they are sinning by serving as pastors

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I do say. Because I believe it is against Gods will.

Archivist said:

don’t post cutesy pictures or emojis

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Archivist said:

just don’t attend those churches.

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I won't.

Archivist said:

Problem solved.

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I don't have a problem in regard to this subject. People who have ungodly pastors need to seek for solutions.

pescador said:

You wrote "The more people who are saved the better. Just don't pastor because you are sinning when you do that." How else should this be interpreted, as your words are clear.

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I was writing to a woman, who is in a (unlicensed) pastoral role. So it was part of a personal conversation.

All Glory To God said:

I was writing to a woman, who is in a (unlicensed) pastoral role. So it was part of a personal conversation.

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That's why you posted it on a public forum? Why not have a direct, private conversation with her?

All Glory To God said:

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Never try and tell me that you want to engage in serious discussion. You don’t. Did your mother not teach you any manners?

pescador said:

That's why you posted it on a public forum? Why not have a direct, private conversation with her?

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Personal or individual. As opposed to part of a group. Why are you the only not understanding this? That member did. This is why it's best not to break in to other people's conversations, unless you are paying attention. I can't spend all night explaining you what was meant in conversations with someone else.

Archivist said:

Never try and tell me that you want to engage in serious discussion. You don’t. Apparently your mother didn’t teach you any manners.

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Why do you keep bringing my mother into this? I think you are just miserable and have no sense of humour.

And the reason I resort to humour is your arguments are not weighty enough to consider them serious counter-arguements to the views I already hold.

Hope that helps.

All Glory To God said:

Personal or individual. As opposed to part of a group. Why are you the only not understanding this? That member did. This is why it's best not to break in to other people's conversations, unless you are paying attention. I can't spend all night explaining you what was meant in conversations with someone else.

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=> If you want to have a private conversation, make it private. <- Have a good sleep!

All Glory To God said:

Why do you keep bringing my mother into this? I think you are just miserable and have no sense of humour.

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I have a wonderful sense of humor. You were the one who said you wanted to engage in serious discussion, yet you continue to post cutesy pictures. Apparently you don’t want to engage in serious conversation. Obviously you were not taught manners.

LoveofTruth said:

Are you saying that when Paul said (by the Spirit of God)

1 Corinthians 14: 33,37. “For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church

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This is NOT - I repeat N. O. T. - Paul's saying. It was Paul's quote from the Corinthians' letter sent to him, which he promptly turned around in 1 Corinthians 14:36-40 and rebuked them for their mistaken theology about restricting women's speaking in the church.

pescador said:

=> If you want to have a private conversation, make it private. <- Have a good sleep!

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Not what I was saying but if you interrupt other peoples conversation and don't understood what was said, that's on you.

3 Resurrections said:

This is NOT - I repeat N. O. T. - Paul's saying. It was Paul's quote from the Corinthians' letter sent to him, which he promptly turned around in 1 Corinthians 14:36-40 and rebuked them for their mistaken theology about restricting women's speaking in the church.

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While you are indeed correct, it's not possible to reason with trolls. Everyone attempting to have a serious discussion with this person is just feeding it.

Archivist said:

I have a wonderful sense of humor.

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On second thought, that is true. A man who think women can be Pastors must have a good sense of humour.

Archivist said:

You were the one who said you wanted to engage in serious discussion, yet you continue to post cutesy pictures. Apparently you don’t want to engage in serious conversation.

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We tried that and it didin't work. And the reason I resort to humour is your arguments are not weighty enough to consider them serious counter-arguements to the views I already hold.

Archivist said:

Obviously you were not taught manners.

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Wrong. Factually, wrong.