Can Salvation be lost?

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Nothing has been ignored and everything posted in post 92 linked is only exegesis from Hebrews 6:4-8. The audience of course is to believers (already shown in the linked post) and the warning is given to believers not to depart the faith or fall away from the faith and return to a life of known unrepentant sin. Hebrews 6:1-3 does not effect the exegesis shown in the linked post above. So what is it then that you do not believe in the exegesis provided in the linked post and why (scripture please).

Take Care.
That’s makes sense now. You don’t really understand why it was written, and to who. It explains how you can come up with your understanding. I’d suggest doing a bit of research to find out the who, what, where, when, and why. It will open your eyes to a who new understanding.
 
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟953,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Yes, but that king's decree comes with conditions. It is a guarantee upon successful completion, but it is not a get-out-of-jail free card. Which is why it being a decree, rather than a declaration of innocence in a court, is so important. Decree's of kings are subject to remission at the king's whim and cannot be held over a king.
Ah, but this King has said, that having once accepted you as His own, He will never cast you aside. And this King does not go back on His word ...
 
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,405
1,617
43
San jacinto
✟128,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Ah, but this King has said, that having once accepted you as His own, He will never cast you aside. And this King does not go back on His word ...
It's not about Him casting us aside...certainly there's no danger of that. Yet when we sin, we harden our hearts and turn away from Him. And we are not captives, God doesn't take prisoners. Salvation continues so long as we are willing, and it is His work entirely throughout, but we must be careful not to harden our hearts such that we turn away. It is why salvation is spoken of as conditional throughout Scripture, because it is not completed until it is complete and so long as it is in process only God knows the outcome. Technically, any salvation lost was never truly salvation to begin with but from our perspective that's purely theoretical and has no practical import. Recognizing the dangers of the possibility of our own betrayal, though, serves to keep us seeking Him for sustenance and not trusting in our own works.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: The Liturgist
Upvote 0

A_Thinker

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 23, 2004
11,911
9,064
Midwest
✟953,784.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's not about Him casting us aside...certainly there's no danger of that. Yet when we sin, we harden our hearts and turn away from Him. And we are not captives, God doesn't take prisoners. Salvation continues so long as we are willing, and it is His work entirely throughout, but we must be careful not to harden our hearts such that we turn away. It is why salvation is spoken of as conditional throughout Scripture, because it is not completed until it is complete and so long as it is in process only God knows the outcome. Technically, any salvation lost was never truly salvation to begin with but from our perspective that's purely theoretical and has no practical import. Recognizing the dangers of the possibility of our own betrayal, though, serves to keep us seeking Him for sustenance and not trusting in our own works.
I will quote more of John 6, because it is interesting to contemplate.

John 6

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jesus also said that He would lose NONE of those that God entrusted to Him.

But what do you think ? Will Christ lose any of us ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,405
1,617
43
San jacinto
✟128,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That’s makes sense now. You don’t really understand why it was written, and to who. It explains how you can come up with your understanding. I’d suggest doing a bit of research to find out the who, what, where, when, and why. It will open your eyes to a who new understanding.
Considering that it isn't even clear that Hebrews is a letter your confidence in your knowledge of audience and such is interesting.


I will quote more of John 6, because it is interesting to contemplate.

John 6

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jesus also said that He would lose NONE of those that God entrusted to Him.

But what do you think ? Will Christ lose any of us ?
Perhaps you missed the part where I said those who walk away were never truly saved, but that's only known in hindsight. How do you know you are in the number of those entrusted to Christ? Have you seen the book of life? Do you know the end from the beginning? Most promises of assurance are based purely on the word of a human being, the sincerity of their own heart. And what does the Bible say about a man's heart? Fear the Lord, the One who can destroy both body and soul.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Considering that it isn't even clear that Hebrews is a letter your confidence in your knowledge of audience and such is interesting.
If it’s not a letter, what is it?
 
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,405
1,617
43
San jacinto
✟128,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Okay. Then it still had an audience in mind.
Yes, the issue is there's not a whole lot we can say with confidence about its audience since we can't even say much about its form of delivery. Conditioning understanding on that kind of understanding renders much of the Bible inaccessible to us today because a lot of it comes down to speculation.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
That’s makes sense now. You don’t really understand why it was written, and to who. It explains how you can come up with your understanding. I’d suggest doing a bit of research to find out the who, what, where, when, and why. It will open your eyes to a who new understanding.
Yet that is something you have failed to prove against the scriptures in the posts you are quoting from. All you have provided here is your words in denial of the scriptures shared with you that are Gods' Word. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. That would be between you and God. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day but for many at that time it will be too late. Lets pray that we are all open to hearing and believing what Gods Word says.

Take Care.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Yes, the issue is there's not a whole lot we can say with confidence about its audience since we can't even say much about its form of delivery. Conditioning understanding on that kind of understanding renders much of the Bible inaccessible to us today because a lot of it comes down to speculation.
I think we can say a lot about the audience by examining the internal evidence. Much like we can determine issues that Paul was dealing with in Galatians and Colossians, and that 1 and 2 Corinthians are actually the second and fourth letters.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Yet that is something you have failed to prove against the scriptures in the posts you are quoting from. All you have provided here is your words in denial of the scriptures shared with you that are Gods' Word. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. That would be between you and God. There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed come judgement day but for many at that time it will be too late. Lets pray that we are all open to hearing and believing what Gods Word says.

Take Care.
I know that this is a tactic you use frequently in that you make it look like disagreement with you is actually disagreement with God’s word. It’s poor form.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

Fervent

Well-Known Member
Sep 22, 2020
4,405
1,617
43
San jacinto
✟128,842.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I think we can say a lot about the audience by examining the internal evidence. Much like we can determine issues that Paul was dealing with in Galatians and Colossians, and that 1 and 2 Corinthians are actually the second and fourth letters.
To an extent, but interpretation drives those kinds of decisions just as those kinds of decisions drive interpretation.
 
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I know that this is a tactic you use frequently in that you make it look like disagreement with you is actually disagreement with God’s word. It’s poor form.
Please forgive me but I do not believe you and have shown why from the scriptures. So we will agree to disagree. I only wish you well.

Take Care.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Please forgive me but I do not believe you and have shown why from the scriptures. So we will agree to disagree. I only wish you well.

Take Care.
I did, actually. I referenced Romans 1-11.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
  • Agree
Reactions: Danthemailman
Upvote 0

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2017
22,242
6,634
Queensland
Visit site
✟252,319.00
Country
Australia
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Calling me a liar is also bad form.

Can Salvation be lost?
I did not call you anything. I only told you the truth the first time dear friend. What has Romans 1-11 that you posted to someone else have to do with my discussion with you and how does Romans 1 to Romans 11 disagree with any of the scriptures shared with you? Or where does it say anywhere in Romans 1 to Romans 11 that we cannot depart the faith and return to a life of unbelief and known unrepentant sin and not lose our salvation? -Nowhere! So what scriptures specifically did you post that says a believer cannot depart the faith by choosing to reject Gods' Word (unbelief) and return to known unrepentant sin and not lose their salvation? - No scripture and that is simply because there is no scripture that supports this false teaching.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Site Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,187
25,222
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,728,999.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
I did not call you anything. I only told you the truth the first time dear friend. What has Romans 1-11 that you posted to someone else have to do with my discussion with you? -Nothing.
:doh:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

The Liturgist

Traditional Liturgical Christian
Site Supporter
Nov 26, 2019
11,187
5,708
49
The Wild West
✟475,948.00
Country
United States
Faith
Generic Orthodox Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
It's not about Him casting us aside...certainly there's no danger of that. Yet when we sin, we harden our hearts and turn away from Him. And we are not captives, God doesn't take prisoners. Salvation continues so long as we are willing, and it is His work entirely throughout, but we must be careful not to harden our hearts such that we turn away. It is why salvation is spoken of as conditional throughout Scripture, because it is not completed until it is complete and so long as it is in process only God knows the outcome. Technically, any salvation lost was never truly salvation to begin with but from our perspective that's purely theoretical and has no practical import. Recognizing the dangers of the possibility of our own betrayal, though, serves to keep us seeking Him for sustenance and not trusting in our own works.

Indeed, this is entirely correct. Or as I am fond of quoting, Metropolitan Kallistos Ware likes to say the one thing God cannot do is force us to love Him.
 
Upvote 0