Massachusettes sees at least 80 deaths from Covid among the vaccinated

Pommer

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This isn't Jewish dialects and is a simple question. What keeps people from answering simple questions? It's not a trap.

Given your avoidance, I will just assume that yes you do agree it's slightly more seirous than the seasonal flu.

And you'd be right.

AND you'd be listening to what science has taught you so far. So there ARE lesson of the science that you ARE willing to accept; where that line is, who knows though.
I do not know about our mutual friend @Aldebaran, here, but for my own sake, the daily “good fight” is worth the “argument for argument’s sake” to keep the mind sharp, (in my case “less dull”).

Now, I’m not saying that @Aldebaran is “arguing for the sport of it”, but it’s a good part of that. (YMMV).
 
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Aldebaran

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I do not know about our mutual friend @Aldebaran, here, but for my own sake, the daily “good fight” is worth the “argument for argument’s sake” to keep the mind sharp, (in my case “less dull”).

Now, I’m not saying that @Aldebaran is “arguing for the sport of it”, but it’s a good part of that. (YMMV).

Calling out a member twice in a single post. That's got to be a new record.
 
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Pommer

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Calling out a member twice in a single post. That's got to be a new record.
I shall endeavor to never mention your good self again!
Fare thee well.
 
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Aldebaran

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I shall endeavor to never mention your good self again!
Fare thee well.

Just as well since I'm not from Massachusettes, am not dead, and don't have Covid, and therefore am not the topic here.
 
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rambot

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Responding to your statement: "Covid is more like the flu, where your immunity doesn't last more then a few years to that one strain, then add in that there is multiple strains rotating. Eventually a mutation will hit the area your antibodies are designed for.

No, you are the one saying contradictory things. "Covid is like the flu."

The flu hospitalizes only susceptible people (well, except for 2020 when flu magically vanished). Around HALF of all people in this country get a flu shot - the other half do not.
You DO know that COVID is an influenza virus. It's not "Covid is like the flu" it's "Covid is a flu" and there are many different flus that are different in strength and transmissibility. COVID is just really good at both.
 
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whatbogsends

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PORTLAND, Ore. — Fred Creasy was diagnosed with stage 4 colon cancer at the end of June. Doctors gave the 81-year-old just 30 days to live. He died at the end of July while in hospice care at Avamere Rehabilitation Facility in Newport.

“They told my daughter you better come down here because it's going to be today. And within five hours he was gone,” said daughter Rhonda McCrary.


McCrary said her father tested positive for COVID-19 around the same time of his cancer diagnosis.

“He had no symptoms. He wasn't even quarantined,” said McCrary.

McCrary said her dad died from advanced cancer and Avamere considered Creasy recovered from the coronavirus. A few days after his death, Lincoln County Public Health reported Creasy as the county’s ninth COVID-19 death.

“I mean, that’s not what he died from. He died from colon cancer, not COVID and places are listing loved ones as COVID deaths. And they're labeling that and it's just not true,” said McCrary.

McCrary said Creasy died with COVID-19, not from COVID-19, and there’s obviously a difference.

Other families across Oregon are also questioning why their loved ones are being counted as COVID-19 deaths, including the family of a 26-year-old Oregon man who was listed as a COVID-19 death but tested negative for the virus.



According to the Oregon Health Authority (OHA), there is no difference when it comes to tracking and reporting COVID deaths. OHA spokesman Jonathan Modie explained in an email how the state determines what is counted as a COVID-19 death:

We consider COVID-19 deaths to be:

Deaths in which a patient hospitalized for any reason within 14 days of a positive COVID-19 test result dies in the hospital or within the 60 days following discharge.

Deaths in which COVID-19 is listed as a primary or contributing cause of death on a death certificate.

We count COVID-19 deaths this way because the virus can often have effects on an individual’s health that may complicate their recovery from other diseases and conditions, even injuries, and indirectly contribute to their death. Another reason is because OHA is using this data to track the spread of the disease, and to create actionable steps for stopping its spread.



Colorado previously reported deaths the same way Oregon does. State health officials were counting people who died from COVID-19 and with COVID-19 as the same thing. But after public outcry, the state changed how they reported coronavirus deaths to differentiate between people who died from COVID-19 and people who died with COVID-19.

“As a clinician and as a physician, that kind of classification makes a lot more sense to me because then we've got more granularity on the data and we know exactly who is directly related to COVID, whereas who may have just died while being infected with COVID,” said Dr. Kohli.

Dying with COVID and dying from COVID are same thing in Oregon | kgw.com

Now, we're up to 3 states.

No comment?

That was Colorado, Oregon, and Illinois so far.

Here's Ohio:

The state’s method of tracking COVID-19 related hospitalizations and deaths was one of six issues flagged in a performance audit of the Ohio Department of Heath released Wednesday.

“When counting the total number of hospitalizations and deaths, ODH does not differentiate between hospitalizations and deaths by COVID-19 and with COVID-19,” the Ohio Auditor’s Office said in the report. “This guidance conflicts with other federal and global public health organization guidance, which should be studied by ODH.”

“While ODH counts deaths in accordance with CDC guidance, some medical professionals may complete death certificates in a manner that allows for inclusion of some individuals who did not die due to COVID-19 but rather of other causes while also testing positive for COVID-19,” the report continued.

During the course of the audit, ODH also identified over 4,000 death certificates that had not been reconciled to the Ohio Disease Reporting System, which resulted in death statistics being inaccurate from October 2020 to February 2021.


Ohio COVID-19 death, hospitalization data flagged in state audit (msn.com)

And Massachusetts, although this specifically was referring to long-term care residents. It's still a ~20% over-reporting of those deaths. I couldn't find anything about their Covid deaths overall, which also means i can't rule out that they didn't differentiate between "dying from" and "dying with", as was the case for long-term care residents.

In Thursday's weekly report, DPH started using the federal standard for long-term care deaths, which counts all residents of a facility who died from COVID complications in a facility, hospital or other location, but does not count those who recovered from COVID-19 and later died.

Up to this point, Massachusetts had counted all long-term care residents who contracted the virus at some point before they died — even those who recovered between their bout with the illness and their death — as COVID-19 long-term care deaths. The new standard mirrors the CDC's recommendation and that in place in most other states, according to the Baker administration.

"By aligning the long-term death count on the state's weekly dashboard with federal definitions for long-term care facilities, Massachusetts is aligning with the definition that other states use," DPH State Epidemiologist Catherine Brown said in a statement. "DPH also believes this definition better supports long-term care facilities now that so many residents and staff are vaccinated to closely monitor the effect of COVID in a well-vaccinated but vulnerable population."

As a result of the change, the cumulative long-term care death toll in Massachusetts will be listed at 5,502 as of April 12, compared to the 6,722 reported as of April 5 in the final weekly report under the previous state standards. The update does not appear to change the overall cumulative COVID-19 death toll in Massachusetts, which increased from 17,427 in Wednesday's daily report to 17,432 in Thursday's.

Massachusetts Senior Care Association President Tara Gregorio praised the DPH's decision to change its standards as an "important" step.


DPH Changes Counting Method For Long-Term Care Deaths | WBUR News

5 states so far. It's tedious digging for actual information.

Let's change tack a little bit...

DR. DEBORAH BIRX: So, I think in this country we've taken a very liberal approach to mortality. And I think the reporting here has been pretty straightforward over the last five to six weeks. Prior to that when there wasn't testing in January and February that's a very different situation and unknown.

There are other countries that if you had a preexisting condition and let's say the virus caused you to go to the ICU and then have a heart or kidney problem some countries are recording as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death. Right now we are still recording it and we will I mean the great thing about having forms that come in and a form that has the ability to market as COVID-19 infection the intent is right now that those if someone dies with COVID-19 we are counting that as a COVID-19 death.


Dr. Birx: Unlike Some Countries, "If Someone Dies With COVID-19 We Are Counting That As A COVID-19 Death" | Video | RealClearPolitics

I'm not discounting Covid as a serious disease, but let's not pretend that "Covid death" means that "Covid was the (or even a) cause of death listed on the death certificate". It simply meant that the person had tested positive for Covid prior to dying.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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You DO know that COVID is an influenza virus. It's not "Covid is like the flu" it's "Covid is a flu" and there are many different flus that are different in strength and transmissibility. COVID is just really good at both.
I am not the one who made the comparison here. I merely responded to your statement (and a few others).
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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what statement, you made a idiotic comment that 3 year olds use and expect a actual response, use a grownup argument and maybe we can have a actual conversation. But fine I will be nice this one time, and last time I will respond to childish arguments.

You do realize that saying X is like Y in one case, isn't the same as what you guys have been saying for almost 2 years X is Y.

The kind of argument we've been attacking is, "it's just another flu, or it's just the flu." as in deaths and harm, I was talking about MUTATION rate which was zero to do with your own argument. So quit it with the childish arguments of, "HAH YOU SAID BLACK!..."and have a real conversation.
Laughing at the juxtaposition of you ridiculing my so-called "idiotic comments" and your poster name, "love of the Lord". :)

And, as entirely expected, you are misrepresenting me to say that "it's just another flu" . I didn't actually say that or anything like it.

You are projecting your own feelings and actions onto me.
 
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loveofourlord

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Laughing at the juxtaposition of you ridiculing my so-called "idiotic comments" and your poster name, "love of the Lord". :)

And, as entirely expected, you are misrepresenting me to say that "it's just another flu" . I didn't actually say that or anything like it.

You are projecting your own feelings and actions onto me.

you didn't say that, but the only time it's EVER compared to the flu is in the context of, "it's not just another flu." so yeah...don't play games.
 
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98cwitr

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"Rare" breakthrough infections are sickening and killing people in Massachusetts.



More than 5,100 Massachusetts residents have tested positive for COVID-19, despite being fully vaccinated against the virus, and at least 80 of them have died, state health officials said Tuesday night.

The latest update from the state Department of Public Health comes as coronavirus metrics continue to creep up in the Bay State while the more contagious delta variant keeps spreading in the U.S.

The so-called breakthrough cases — where fully vaccinated individuals test positive for coronavirus — have so far been rare, but are possible. And should even be expected, per the CDC.

As of July 17, a total of 5,166 breakthrough cases had been reported to the state DPH. Of those, 272 people were hospitalized and survived. Of the 80 people who died, 23 died without being hospitalized; 57 died following a hospital stay.
More Than 5,100 Breakthrough COVID Cases Reported in Mass.; at Least 80 Have Died

24% breakthrough rate in Dare County, NC: DCDHHS COVID-19 Update #114 | Tuesday, September 21, 2021 - Town of Duck, North Carolina
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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you didn't say that, but the only time it's EVER compared to the flu is in the context of, "it's not just another flu." so yeah...don't play games.
This sentence makes no sense. Quote where I said it was "just a flu".
 
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Please clarify your math. I'm not seeing the numbers, so help me out.

43 (vaccinated)/177(cases)=24.3%

Pfizer shown as least effective (17/43=40% of breakthrough cases were pfizer takers)
 
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cow451

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43 (vaccinated)/177(cases)=24.3%

Pfizer shown as least effective (17/43=40% of breakthrough cases were pfizer takers)
I see it now. 76% of that week's cases were unvaccinated.
 
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43 (vaccinated)/177(cases)=24.3%

Pfizer shown as least effective (17/43=40% of breakthrough cases were pfizer takers)

Wouldn't the breakthrough rate be calculated by the number of people infected by the total population of vaccinated individuals? What you have calculate is simply the ratio of infected from those who are vaccinated to those who are not. That is not my understanding of breakthrough infection.
 
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Job 33:6

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Wouldn't the breakthrough rate be calculated by the number of people infected by the total population of vaccinated individuals? What you have calculate is simply the ration of infected from those who are vaccinated to those who are not. That is not my understanding of breakthrough infection.

Yea, otherwise breakthrough infection rate would be at 100% in communities where everyone were vaccinated.
 
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You DO know that COVID is an influenza virus. It's not "Covid is like the flu" it's "Covid is a flu" and there are many different flus that are different in strength and transmissibility. COVID is just really good at both.

COVID-19 is not an influenza virus. It's a coronavirus. COVID-19 has more in common with a cold (which can be caused by a couple different types of coronavirus) than the flu. And we all know we're not going to come up with a cure for the cold any time soon.
 
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7thKeeper

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43 (vaccinated)/177(cases)=24.3%

Pfizer shown as least effective (17/43=40% of breakthrough cases were pfizer takers)

That's not how you calculate that... Others seem to have pointed this out already though.
 
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Wouldn't the breakthrough rate be calculated by the number of people infected by the total population of vaccinated individuals? What you have calculate is simply the ratio of infected from those who are vaccinated to those who are not. That is not my understanding of breakthrough infection.
It's, at the very least, a misleading statistic. You have to look at the number of people who are vaccinated vs the number of people who aren't. As a larger share of the population becomes vaccinated, you would expect a larger and large portion of those infected to have been vaccinated because there's just more of them.

If, say, 75% of the population is fully vaccinated, but they make up <25% of the infected, that shows that the vaccine is working pretty darn well as infections are heavily disproportionately effecting the unvaccinated.
 
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