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LoveGodsWord

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If the Apostle John had recorded the word "Sabbath" in Revelation 1:10, you would have an argument. However, John did not record the word "Sabbath".
According to the scriptures, John in Revelation 1:10 application to "the Lords day" is more than a reference to the Sabbath but to Jesus as the God of Sabbath and creator of all things in heaven and earth. This is also demonstrated in other scriptures from John showing that Jesus is the creator God of the Sabbath from John 1:1-4; 14; John 8:58; John 17:5; John 5:16-18; and other scriptures agreeing with John in Colossians 1:16; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Hebrews 1:1-2; which is the meaning of "the Lords day" that is the Lord's ownership of the Sabbath day and His authority as being Lord (creator) of the Sabbath. For the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day - Matthew 12:8.
Have you refused to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage" as Paul told the Galatian believers to do in Galatians 4:24-31?
Really and why would that be? You cannot even tell me what the new covenant is after being asked many times now. So if you do not know what the covenants are how can you accuse anyone of living in the old covenant even after they have posted many times now we are in the new covenant now not the old?

Take Care
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Early Church Fathers who lived before the Council of Nicaea comment on the Sabbath:

Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

Justin Martyr

The Lawgiver is present, yet you do not see Him; to the poor the Gospel is preached, the blind see, yet you do not understand. You have now need of a second circumcision, though you glory greatly in the flesh. The new law requires you to keep perpetual sabbath, and you, because you are idle for one day, suppose you are pious, not discerning why this has been commanded you: and if you eat unleavened bread, you say the will of God has been fulfilled. The Lord our God does not take pleasure in such observances: if there is any perjured person or a thief among you, let him cease to be so; if any adulterer, let him repent; then he has kept the sweet and true sabbaths of God. If any one has impure hands, let him wash and be pure.(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XII.—The Jews violate the eternal law, and interpret ill that of Moses.)

For we too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined you,—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your hearts. For if we patiently endure all things contrived against us by wicked men and demons, so that even amid cruelties unutterable, death and torments, we pray for mercy to those who inflict such things upon us, and do not wish to give the least retort to any one, even as the new Lawgiver commanded us: how is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us, —I speak of fleshly circumcision, and Sabbaths, and feasts?(Dialogue with Trypho the Jew Chapter XVIII.—Christians would observe the law, if they did not know why it was instituted. [A.D. 155]).

And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday,1 all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.(First Apology Chapter LXVII.—Weekly worship of the Christians. [A.D. 155]).

“Wherefore, Trypho, I will proclaim to you, and to those who wish to become proselytes, the divine message which I heard from that man. Do you see that the elements are not idle, and keep no Sabbaths? Remain as you were born. For if there was no need of circumcision before Abraham, or of the observance of Sabbaths, of feasts and sacrifices, before Moses; no more need is there of them now, after that, according to the will of God, Jesus Christ the Son of God has been born without sin, of a virgin sprung from the stock of Abraham. For when Abraham himself was in uncircumcision, he was justified and blessed by reason of the faith which he reposed in God, as the Scripture tells. Moreover, the Scriptures and the facts themselves compel us to admit that He received circumcision for a sign, and not for righteousness.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XXIII.—The opinion of the Jews regarding the law does an injury to God.)

“As, then, circumcision began with Abraham, and the Sabbath and sacrifices and offerings and feasts with Moses, and it has been proved they were enjoined on account of the hardness of your people’s heart, so it was necessary, in accordance with the Father’s will, that they should have an end in Him who was born of a virgin, of the family of Abraham and tribe of Judah, and of David; in Christ the Son of God, who was proclaimed as about to come to all the world, to be the everlasting law and the everlasting covenant, even as the forementioned prophecies show.(The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chapter XLIII.—He concludes that the law had an end in Christ, who was born of the Virgin.)

Tertullian

“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God”(An Answer to the Jews Chapter II.—The Law Anterior to Moses. [A.D. 203]).

It follows, accordingly, that, in so far as the abolition of carnal circumcision and of the old law is demonstrated as having been consummated at its specific times, so also the observance of the Sabbath is demonstrated to have been temporary.For the Jews say, that from the beginning God sanctified the seventh day, by resting on it from all His works which He made; and that thence it was, likewise, that Moses said to the People: “Remember the day of the sabbaths, to sanctify it: every servile work ye shall not do therein, except what pertaineth unto life.” Whence we (Christians) understand that we still more ought to observe a sabbath from all “servile work” always, and not only every seventh day, but through all time. And through this arises the question for us, what sabbath God willed us to keep? For the Scriptures point to a sabbath eternal and a sabbath temporal. For Isaiah the prophet says, “Your sabbaths my soul hateth;” and in another place he says, “My sabbaths ye have profaned.”9 Whence we discern that the temporal sabbath is human, and the eternal sabbath is accounted divine; concerning which He predicts through Isaiah: “And there shall be,” He says, “month after month, and day after day, and sabbath after sabbath; and all flesh shall come to adore in Jerusalem, saith the Lord;” which we understand to have been fulfilled in the times of Christ, when “all flesh”—that is, every nation—“came to adore in Jerusalem” God the Father, through Jesus Christ His Son, as was predicted through the prophet: “Behold, proselytes through me shall go unto Thee.” Thus, therefore, before this temporal sabbath, there was withal an eternal sabbath foreshown and foretold; just as before the carnal circumcision there was withal a spiritual circumcision foreshown. In short, let them teach us, as we have already premised, that Adam observed the sabbath; or that Abel, when offering to God a holy victim, pleased Him by a religious reverence for the sabbath; or that Enoch, when translated, had been a keeper of the sabbath; or that Noah the ark-builder observed, on account of the deluge, an immense sabbath; or that Abraham, in observance of the sabbath, offered Isaac his son; or that Melchizedek in his priesthood received the law of the sabbath

But the Jews are sure to say, that ever since this precept was given through Moses, the observance has been binding. Manifest accordingly it is, that the precept was not eternal nor spiritual, but temporary, which would one day cease. In short, so true is it that it is not in the exemption from work of the sabbath—that is, of the seventh day—that the celebration of this solemnity is to consist, that Joshua the son of Nun, at the time that he was reducing the city Jericho by war, stated that he had received from God a precept to order the People that priests should carry the ark of the testament of God seven days, making the circuit of the city; and thus, when the seventh day’s circuit had been performed, the walls of the city would spontaneously fall. Which was so done; and when the space of the seventh day was finished, just as was predicted, down fell the walls of the city. Whence it is manifestly shown, that in the number of the seven days there intervened a sabbath-day. For seven days, whencesoever they may have commenced, must necessarily include within them a sabbath-day; on which day not only must the priests have worked, but the city must have been made a prey by the edge of the sword by all the people of Israel. Nor is it doubtful that they “wrought servile work,” when, in obedience to God’s precept, they drave the preys of war. For in the times of the Maccabees, too, they did bravely in fighting on the sabbaths, and routed their foreign foes, and recalled the law of their fathers to the primitive style of life by fighting on the sabbaths. Nor should I think it was any other law which they thus vindicated, than the one in which they remembered the existence of the prescript touching “the day of the sabbaths.” Whence it is manifest that the force of such precepts was temporary, and respected the necessity of present circumstances; and that it was not with a view to its observance in perpetuity that God formerly gave them such a law.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter IV.—Of the Observance of the Sabbath.)

Therefore, since it is manifest that a sabbath temporal was shown, and a sabbath eternal foretold; a circumcision carnal foretold, and a circumcision spiritual pre-indicated; a law temporal and a law eternal formally declared; sacrifices carnal and sacrifices spiritual foreshown; it follows that, after all these precepts had been given carnally, in time preceding, to the people Israel, there was to supervene a time whereat the precepts of the ancient Law and of the old ceremonies would cease, and the promise3 of the new law, and the recognition of spiritual sacrifices, and the promise of the New Testament, supervene;4 while the light from on high would beam upon us who were sitting in darkness, and were being detained in the shadow of death.5 And so there is incumbent on us a necessity6 binding us, since we have premised that a new law was predicted by the prophets, and that not such as had been already given to their fathers at the time when He led them forth from the land of Egypt,7 to show and prove, on the one hand, that that old Law has ceased, and on the other, that the promised new law is now in operation.

And, indeed, first we must inquire whether there be expected a giver of the new law, and an heir of the new testament, and a priest of the new sacrifices, and a purger of the new circumcision, and an observer of the eternal sabbath, to suppress the old law, and institute the new testament, and offer the new sacrifices, and repress the ancient ceremonies, and suppress8 the old circumcision together with its own sabbath, and announce the new kingdom which is not corruptible. Inquire, I say, we must, whether this giver of the new law, observer of the spiritual sabbath, priest of the eternal sacrifices, eternal ruler of the eternal kingdom, be come or no: that, if he is already come, service may have to be rendered him; if he is not yet come, he may have to be awaited, until by his advent it be manifest that the old Law’s precepts are suppressed, and that the beginnings of the new law ought to arise. And, primarily, we must lay it down that the ancient Law and the prophets could not have ceased, unless He were come who was constantly announced, through the same Law and through the same prophets, as to come.(An Answer to the Jews Chapter VI.—Of the Abolition and the Abolisher of the Old Law. [A.D. 203]).

But you, many of you, also under pretence sometimes of worshipping the heavenly bodies, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise. In the same way, if we devote Sun-day to rejoicing, from a far different reason than Sun-worship, we have some resemblance to those of you who devote the day of Saturn to ease and luxury, though they too go far away from Jewish ways, of which indeed they are ignorant.(Apology Chapter XVI.) .

Well I have kindly asked you many times now to please stop spamming the same cut and paste post over and over throughout this thread and your doing the same thing again here. This has been posted so many times in this thread and has absolutely nothing to do with the OP. May I request that you might please go re-read what the OP says and stay on topic to the OP. I have tried asking you politely many times now.

As posted earlier we already know what the teachings and traditions of some in the early Church were in regards to their claims that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. The purpose of this OP is to examine if these claims are true or not true according to the scriptures and if they are supported in the scriptures and if these teachings are biblical or not biblical. Now do you have and scriptures at all that proves that Sunday is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10?

Let's be honest now dear friend, you have no scripture to support this man-made teaching and tradition of the early Church now do you. If you have no scripture that supports this man-made teaching and tradition just be honest and say so. If you have no scripture to support this teaching what is more important; following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many to break the commandments of God or following the Word of God? *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9.

Take Care
 
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Freth

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Happy Sabbath everyone.

Isaiah 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
 
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BABerean2

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Let's be honest now dear friend, you have no scripture to support this man-made teaching and tradition of the early Church now do you. If you have no scripture that supports this man-made teaching and tradition just be honest and say so. If you have no scripture to support this teaching what is more important; following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many to break the commandments of God or following the Word of God? *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9.


Let us start with Galatians 4:24-31 where the Apostle Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".


Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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LoveGodsWord said: Let's be honest now dear friend, you have no scripture to support this man-made teaching and tradition of the early Church now do you. If you have no scripture that supports this man-made teaching and tradition just be honest and say so. If you have no scripture to support this teaching what is more important; following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many to break the commandments of God or following the Word of God? *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; Matthew 15:3-9.
Your response here...
Let us start with Galatians 4:24-31 where the Apostle Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".
Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Gal 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
Gal 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free..

So what does this post have to do with the post you are quoting from? - Once again, absolutely nothing. Now while we are here what do you think Galatians 4:24-31 means? Before we can even discuss what Galatians 4:24-31 means however, we need to know what the old and new covenants are. So let me ask you again what is the old covenant and what is the new covenant that replaced it and in view of the above questions what does Galatians 4:24-31 mean? If you do not know just say so. Perhaps you can tell then tell me what your post here has to even do with the OP which is to provide scripture to prove that Sunday is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10? Are you going to discuss my question asked of you here or are you not really hear for a discussion?

Take Care.
 
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Cribstyl

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Why? What is the new covenant? No one seems to want to provide any scripture. The conversation is already changed and gone off topic which is what your friend is seeking to do. To be on topic, the OP is asking for scripture that proves that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. Do you have any scripture that supports with man-made teaching and tradition claimed by some in the early Church? Nope. That is why many in this thread are seeking to bring the discussion off topic to the OP and seeking to steer the discussion away from the request for scriptures to prove that Sunday is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 because there is none.

Take Care.
Why ask questions about the New Covenant if you're also insisting that we stay on the OP????
Why do you reject the historic writing of the early church fathers???
No scriptures says that the Lord's day in Rev 1:10 is the Sabbath or Sunday, so your commentary is just as questionable.


The Old and New Covenant are not restricted to a handful of prophetic quotes.
God in His foreknowledge Has declared from the beginning, both what He requires from man and what what He will do.
Having the understanding that a covenant is an agreement between two (God and man) is foundational in presenting the covenants of God.

The Old Covenant was given through Moses. According to Duet 29 It consisted of the words of the covenant (10 commandments) made a Sinai (Horeb), and all the commandments in the book of the law that was placed in the side of the arc of the covenant. (Some of you reject the fact that the 10.com is part of the Old covenant.)
Devils would have you question and reject what God said is the Old and New covenant.
Duet 29-31 Explains the Old Covenant.
Deu 29:1These are the terms of the covenant the LORD commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb.

Deu 29:9Carefully follow the terms of this covenant, so that you may prosper in everything you do.
Deu 29:10All of you are standing today in the presence of the LORD your God—your leaders and chief men, your elders and officials, and all the other men of Israel,
Deu 29:11together with your children and your wives, and the foreigners living in your camps who chop your wood and carry your water.
Deu 29:12You are standing here in order to enter into a covenant with the LORD your God, a covenant the LORD is making with you this day and sealing with an oath,
Deu 29:13to confirm you this day as his people, that he may be your God as he promised you and as he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Deu 29:14I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you
Deu 29:15who are standing here with us today in the presence of the LORD our God but also with those who are not here today.


The New Covenant was prophesied in Jer 31:31-34
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

It should be clear that the New Covenant is not the law given to Moses, because God said it would not be according to the covenant made out of Egypt.
Moses explained to the children of Israel in Deut 6 "it would be righteousness for us if we obey all the commandment."
Paul explained in Rom 3 "Now, righteousness is without the law"
So, we're not commanded to keep the Old covenant sign which is the Sabbath on any day.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why ask questions about the New Covenant if you're also insisting that we stay on the OP????
Why do you reject the historic writing of the early church fathers???
No scriptures says that the Lord's day in Rev 1:10 is the Sabbath or Sunday, so your commentary is just as questionable.


The Old and New Covenant are not restricted to a handful of prophetic quotes.
God in His foreknowledge Has declared from the beginning, both what He requires from man and what what He will do.
Having the understanding that a covenant is an agreement between two (God and man) is foundational in presenting the covenants of God.

The Old Covenant was given through Moses. According to Duet 29 It consisted of the words of the covenant (10 commandments) made a Sinai (Horeb), and all the commandments in the book of the law that was placed in the side of the arc of the covenant. (Some of you reject the fact that the 10.com is part of the Old covenant.)
Devils would have you question and reject what God said is the Old and New covenant.
Duet 29-31 Explains the Old Covenant.
Deu 29:1These are the terms of the covenant the LORD commanded Moses to make with the Israelites in Moab, in addition to the covenant he had made with them at Horeb.

Deu 29:9Carefully follow the terms of this covenant, so that you may prosper in everything you do.
Deu 29:10All of you are standing today in the presence of the LORD your God—your leaders and chief men, your elders and officials, and all the other men of Israel,
Deu 29:11together with your children and your wives, and the foreigners living in your camps who chop your wood and carry your water.
Deu 29:12You are standing here in order to enter into a covenant with the LORD your God, a covenant the LORD is making with you this day and sealing with an oath,
Deu 29:13to confirm you this day as his people, that he may be your God as he promised you and as he swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
Deu 29:14I am making this covenant, with its oath, not only with you
Deu 29:15who are standing here with us today in the presence of the LORD our God but also with those who are not here today.


The New Covenant was prophesied in Jer 31:31-34
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

It should be clear that the New Covenant is not the law given to Moses, because God said it would not be according to the covenant made out of Egypt.
Moses explained to the children of Israel in Deut 6 "it would be righteousness for us if we obey all the commandment."
Paul explained in Rom 3 "Now, righteousness is without the law"
So, we're not commanded to keep the Old covenant sign which is the Sabbath on any day.
According to the scriptures, I reject these so called early Church fathers because they teach man-made teachings and traditions that are not supported by the scriptures that have led many away from God Word to break the commandments of God. These are the very teachers that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:2-9. The purpose of this OP as stated is to examine these man-made teachings and traditions of the early Church that claim that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is biblical and supported by the scriptures.

Why allow discussion on the covenants? This is because someone was trying to argue that the 10 commandment are the old covenant which is obsolete therefore not applicable to the new covenant therefore the Sabbath cannot be "the Lords day". Although I do not believe this claim is biblical or supported by scripture I believe a discussion here is on topic to the claims being made in regards to what "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is so it is on topic to the thread discussion because I believe the OP shows that the Sabbath day is "the Lords day". So claims as to what the covenants are if someone is trying to argue that the "Lords day" cannot be the Sabbath because it is old covenant is on topic to this discussion. However my claim is that this view is not scriptural and not what the old and new covenants are. So I am happy to discuss it from the scriptures.

Paul in Romans 3 is not saying that we are now righteous by being disobedient to Gods' law he is saying from Romans 2 and Romans 3 that through the law we have a knowledge of what sin is and that all of us have sinned so we cannot get our righteousness through the law because we all are condemned "under the law" standing guilty before God of sin as sinners under Gods condemnation and wrath *Romans 3:9-19. According to the scriptures the purpose of God's law in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11.

There is not one scripture in all of Gods' Word that says anyone of Gods' 10 commandments have been abolished. This is another man-made teaching and tradition that is leading many away from God and His Word. It is time for us to leave the teachings of BABYLON. God is calling his people where ever they might be out from following these man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 14:7-12; Revelation 17:1-5; Revelation 18:1-5. Jesus says that the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. Gods sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27.

Take Care.
 
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Cribstyl

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That was the point, people are trying to discuss anything else but the OP. I reject these so called Church fathers because they teach man-made teachings and traditions that are not supported by the scriptures that have led many away from God Word to break the commandments of God. These are the very teachers that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:2-9.
Why does it seems apparent that Jesus was warning about the scribes and Pharisees?
The purpose of this OP as stated is to examine these man-made teachings and traditions of the early Church that claim that "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10 is biblical and supported by the scriptures. Your friend was trying to argue that the 10 commandment including God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath was the old covenant which is obsolete therefore not applicable to the new covenant therefore cannot bey "the Lords day". This is why I have allowed it as it is applicable to the discussion as I believe I have provided scriptures in the OP showing that the Sabbath day is "the Lords day". Paul in Romans 3 is not saying that we are now free to be disobedient to Gods' law he is saying from Romans 2 and Romans 3 that through the law we have a knowledge of what sin is and that all of us have sinned so we cannot get our righteousness through the law because we all are condemned "under the law" standing guilty before God of sin *Romans 3:9-19. The purpose of God's law in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and according to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. There is not one scripture in all of Gods' Word that says anyone of Gods' 10 commandments or God's 4th commandment have been abolished. This is another man-made teaching and tradition that is leading many away from God and His Word. It is time for us to leave the teachings of BABYLON. God is calling his people where ever they might be out from following these man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 14:7-12; Revelation 17:1-5; Revelation 18:1-5. Jesus says that the hour is coming and now is that the true worshipers will worship the father in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. Gods sheep will hear His voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear will not follow because they are not His sheep *John 10:26-27.

Take Care.
The subject of days chosen to worship God is addressed in Romans 14. I'm sure you have a different opinion than mine on this issue. Just as you reject commentary, your words added to isolated scripture is also rejected as truth.

God bless
 
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HIM

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Why does it seems apparent that Jesus was warning about the scribes and Pharisees?
The subject of days chosen to worship God is addressed in Romans 14. I'm sure you have a different opinion than mine on this issue. Just as you reject commentary, your words added to isolated scripture is also rejected as truth.

God bless

scriptures does not say the Sabbath in Romans 14 so your commentary is questionable
 
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BABerean2

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According to the scriptures, I reject these so called early Church fathers because they teach man-made teachings and traditions that are not supported by the scriptures that have led many away from God Word to break the commandments of God.


Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Why does it seems apparent that Jesus was warning about the scribes and Pharisees?
I think Matthew 15:2-9 clearly answers this question so not sure why your asking it. Jesus here is warning anyone who follows the teaching and traditions of men that break the commandments of God that they are not worshiping God. So this is a relevant scripture to this OP because if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God and Jesus says those who do so are not worshiping God then the question we should all be considering is who do we really worship in our own lives; God or man?
The subject of days chosen to worship God is addressed in Romans 14. I'm sure you have a different opinion than mine on this issue. Just as you reject commentary, your words added to isolated scripture is also rejected as truth.
I respectfully disagree. Romans 14 is about eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days and judging others in this regard. It says nothing about God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath *Exodus 20:8-11 of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20. We should be careful not to read into the scriptures what they do not say and do not teach as this can lead us to a false interpretation of the scriptures and lead us away from God and His Word especially if it leads us to break His commandments. According to John in 1 John 2:3-4 no one can claim to know God by breaking anyone of God's commandments and if they are they are lying and the truth is not in them.

Take Care.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Act 15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:.
According to the scripture, Acts of the Apostles 15 was over the question shown earlier in the scripture context which was, "Is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers"? This was the question that Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss (see Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2). The question was never are Gods' 10 commandments still a requirement and the standard of holiness and Christian living. That interpretation of the scriptures in Acts of the Apostles 15 has Paul in contradiction to Paul and the rest of the bible when he says sometime latter after the decision in Jerusalem that circumcision is not a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers when he says to the Corinthian believers; "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God" - 1 Corinthians 7:19. So to claim that Acts of the Apostles 15 is teaching God's 10 commandments have now been abolished is a false teaching of lawlessness (without law) and is a contradiction of the scriptures that is not supported in the scriptures. However I do not know what Acts of the Apostles 15 has to do with the OP's topic which is about "the Lords day" and proving from the scriptures that the man-made teaching and tradition of "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. Would you care to explain?

Take Care.
 
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BABerean2

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According to the scripture, Acts of the Apostles 15 was over the question shown earlier in the scripture context which was, "Is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers"? This was the question that Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss (see Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2). The question was never are Gods' 10 commandments still a requirement and the standard of holiness and Christian living.

Because Peter did bear the mark of circumcision, verse 10 proves your logic to be in error.


The Jerusalem Council

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?


.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Because Peter did bear the mark of circumcision, verse 10 proves your logic to be in error.


The Jerusalem Council

Act 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
Act 15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

.

Circumcision was the law of Moses being referred to here. Not God's 10 commandments. Your interpretation of the Acts of the Apostles 15 and ignoring what was posted from the scriptures earlier, has Paul contradicting Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where he says after the Jerusalem decisions "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God. Not sure why you cannot see this. Your promoting false teachings of lawlessness (without law) that is not supported in the scriptures. Also, you did not answer my question what has this post have to do with the OP in regards to "the Lords day" requesting scripture that prove that "the Lords day" is Sunday or the first day of the week? - Nothing.

Please stop taking the OP off topic
.
 
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Cribstyl

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scriptures does not say the Sabbath in Romans 14 so your commentary is questionable
You must be joking. If the bible says From now on, Righteousness is apart from the law or YOU'RE NOT UNDER THE LAW. That backs up what God said about the New Covenant not being like the covenant at Sinai.

Not all of us will agree but what did I say that you have questions about?

Obviously you think that Sabbath should be kept by Christian.
So you're the one who should prove that a Sabbath command is given to Christians.
We can agree that Jews and Jewish Christians kept the Sabbath.

Why should Sabbath be mentioned if the scriptures addresses days chosen to worship God?
 
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HIM

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You must be joking. If the bible says From now on, Righteousness is apart from the law or YOU'RE NOT UNDER THE LAW. That backs up what God said about the New Covenant not being like the covenant at Sinai.

Not all of us will agree but what did I say that you have questions about?

Obviously you think that Sabbath should be kept by Christian.
So you're the one who should prove that a Sabbath command is given to Christians.
We can agree that Jews and Jewish Christians kept the Sabbath.

Why should Sabbath be mentioned if the scriptures addresses days chosen to worship God?
A bit dramatic.
I thought we were in Romans 14?
 
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BABerean2

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Circumcision was the law of Moses being referred to here. Not God's 10 commandments. Your interpretation of the Acts of the Apostles 15 and ignoring what was posted from the scriptures earlier, has Paul contradicting Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:19 where he says after the Jerusalem decisions "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Are you trying to tell us Peter was talking about circumcision in the verse below?

Was Peter circumcised on the 8th day of life?


Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?


My interpretation is based on the text, instead of trying to make the SDA doctrine work.

.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Are you trying to tell us Peter was talking about circumcision in the verse below? Was Peter circumcised on the 8th day of life? Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? My interpretation is based on the text, instead of trying to make the SDA doctrine work.

This has already been addressed in some detail already so we will agree to disagree. You have already been provided the scripture context that you left out that show that an interpretation of Acts of the Apostles 15 that teaches a doctrine of lawlessness (without law) is simply not biblical and has Paul in contradiction with Paul which is a false teaching. As posted and shown from the scriptures already, Acts of the Apostles 15 was over the question "Is circumcision from the law of Moses a requirement for the salvation of new gentile believers"? This was the question that Paul and Barnabas went to Jerusalem to discuss (see Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2). The question was never are Gods' 10 commandments still a requirement and the standard of holiness and Christian living. To have an interpretation that Acts of the Apostles 15 is abolishing Gods' 10 commandments has Paul in contradiction to Paul and the rest of the bible especially when Paul says sometime latter after the decision in Jerusalem to the Corinthian believers; "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing but the keeping of the commandments of God" - 1 Corinthians 7:19. So to claim that Acts of the Apostles 15 is teaching God's 10 commandments have now been abolished is a false teaching of lawlessness (without law) and is a contradiction of the scriptures that is not supported in the scriptures. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. That is between you and God.

.............

As posted earlier, I do not know what Acts of the Apostles 15 has to do with the OP's topic which is about "the Lords day" and proving from the scriptures that the man-made teaching and tradition of "the Lords day" from Revelation 1:10 is Sunday or the first day of the week. Can you please return to the OP now please or do you agree that there is no scripture that supports the man-made teaching and tradition that Sunday or the first day of the week is "the Lords day" of Revelation 1:10?

Something to pray about.
 
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Bob S

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Okay, I will get back on subject. Whether or not Sunday was made the Lord's Day is debatable as seen in the thread. What is not debatable is the fact that Gentiles were never commanded to observe the Israelite Sabbath, never means in the Old Testament, the New Testament and all of history. The only, what I call a command, from scripture is that we are to assemble together as Christians. We are given the choice as to when our assembly is to take place. Sunday is somewhat perfect for assembly because much of the World's population uses that day to rest from labor. Going through life is difficult enough without adding burdens that were never meant to be placed on our backs. We don't have to swim upstream all through life in order to please Jesus.

I was convinced by men, not by the Holy Spirit, that I had to observe the Sabbath on Saturday. My trade was Tool and Die making and most companies required us to work six days a week, Saturday being the sixth day. I was out of work for the better part of the year because I refused to work the schedule and I couldn't find work else ware. I was not alone with that problem. Many others had the same or even worse work problems. We were trying to work our way to Heaven because others convinced us we were under the rules of the old covenant, the ones that were given to only one nation on Earth and ended when that nation continuously broke those rules of that covenant. Men, not scripture, tell us that the new covenant is the old one warmed over and then devise their own interpretations from scripture to try to make their preconceived beliefs work. We see this not only in old covenant Sabbath observing churches, but in many other groups. They all have one thing in common, extra Biblical requirements. I pray for the people in those belief systems. They are trying to swim upstream, working so hard trying to convince Jesus, that by their works, they should have their place in the Kingdom of Heaven. Matt11: 29 "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
 
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Okay, I will get back on subject. Whether or not Sunday was made the Lord's Day is debatable as seen in the thread. What is not debatable is the fact that Gentiles were never commanded to observe the Israelite Sabbath, never means in the Old Testament, the New Testament and all of history. The only, what I call a command, from scripture is that we are to assemble together as Christians. We are given the choice as to when our assembly is to take place. Sunday is somewhat perfect for assembly because much of the World's population uses that day to rest from labor. Going through life is difficult enough without adding burdens that were never meant to be placed on our backs. We don't have to swim upstream all through life in order to please Jesus.

I was convinced by men, not by the Holy Spirit, that I had to observe the Sabbath on Saturday. My trade was Tool and Die making and most companies required us to work six days a week, Saturday being the sixth day. I was out of work for the better part of the year because I refused to work the schedule and I couldn't find work else ware. I was not alone with that problem. Many others had the same or even worse work problems. We were trying to work our way to Heaven because others convinced us we were under the rules of the old covenant, the ones that were given to only one nation on Earth and ended when that nation continuously broke those rules of that covenant. Men, not scripture, tell us that the new covenant is the old one warmed over and then devise their own interpretations from scripture to try to make their preconceived beliefs work. We see this not only in old covenant Sabbath observing churches, but in many other groups. They all have one thing in common, extra Biblical requirements. I pray for the people in those belief systems. They are trying to swim upstream, working so hard trying to convince Jesus, that by their works, they should have their place in the Kingdom of Heaven. Matt11: 29 "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

Thanks for trying to stay a little op topic to the OP Bob. According to the scriptures in Matthew 11:29-30 where Jesus says to take my yoke upon you and learn of me simply means to learn of Jesus through His Word and to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. According to the scriptures Gentiles do not believe and follow God's Word through gentile Believers are grafted into God's true Israel *Romans 11:13-27 who under the new covenant are simply all those who now believe and follow Gods' Word through faith. God's true Israel according to the new covenant scriptures are no longer all those born of the flesh of the seed of Abraham but are now all those who have been born of the Spirit to believe and follow God's Word *Romans 9:6-8; Galatians 3:27-28; Romans 2:28-29; What this simply means is that Gods' people (Israel) are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. That is all the Word of God is for God's people (Israel) are for Gods' people to believe and follow. So while it is true gentiles are not commanded to follow anything this is because gentiles do not believe and do not follow God's Word but gentiles believers are commanded to believe and follow Gods' Word just like Jewish believers. In fact our salvation is conditional on believing and following what Gods' Word says because according to the scriptures we are saved by Gods' grace through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 and without faith it is impossible to please God *Hebrews 11:6 because whatsoever is not of faith (believing and following Gods' Word) is sin *Romans 14:23. Faith in God's Word through believing and following what Gods' Word says is the difference between gentiles and gentile believers who have been grafted into God's true Israel as shown in the scriptures are simply all those who believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Faith therefore does not abolish God's law like some teach. This is a false teaching unsupported by the scriptures which is made clear in the scriptures where is says " Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law" - Romans 3:31. Therefore, according to the scriptures it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath - Hebrews 4:9.

Take Care.
 
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