TedT
Member since Job 38:7
- Jan 11, 2021
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When I write 'before the foundation of the world' I mean 'before the creation of the physical universe'. All of the creation of people in HIS image was before the creation of the physical universe', ie, it was a spirit world full of spirits....maybe the original Sheol.
We all accept that someone was alive and self and other aware before the creation of the physical universe because when GOD was using the story of the creation of the physical universe to school Job, HE claimed that the morning stars and all the sons of GOD witnessed that creation and sang HIS praise, Job 38:7 ...while the morning stars sang together and ALL, (kol), the Sons of GOD shouted for joy?.
But there were people there who understood the meaning of what they were seeing and that it proved that YHWH was indeed their GOD. That they sang together implies that they understand music and if music, then mathematics and if math, then all the other mental disciplines not based upon physicality. It also implies that they had a telepathic language like GOD has now with HIS angels, spirits who work for HIM, angel being a job description not a race or type of being.
The word kol Strong's H3605 is also interesting: all, the whole of anything, totality, everything, etc. So instead of just some people being there witching the creation of the physical universe we have the strong possibility that indeed every created person was there, as this interpretation of the verse only bumps against our being created on earth theory, not the words themselves.
We know also that HIS elect were chosen before the foundation of the world. Since I reject the Calvinist rendering of unconditional election, I suggest that there must have been a reason for the election of some and the non-election of others. I also think that faith had to have something to do with election and sin caused non-election.
Is there an indication anything like this is mentioned in scripture? Not if you accept the created on earth theology but once you see a possibility for our pre-conception existence then Col 1:23 offers possibilities: ...if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. The pertinent phrase: This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, has some interesting implications. Every creature under heaven is either hyperbole or it is the truth. But in any case, the words has been proclaimed is in the past tense, referring to a finished, completed, action, that is, the proclamation of the gospel of salvation to every person created has already happened.
Since these words imply the proclamation was finished going out to every creature, then we must accept that it went out before the creation of the world because it has not been fulfilled since that creation yet Paul says it was finished.
So who heard this proclamation of the gospel? Hearing the gospel implies responding to it by a choice to put your faith in it or to reject it. So we add all these things together and understand that the gospel may have been proclaimed to every person created in HIS image before the foundation, creation, of the physical universe and were asked to make a choice to accept it or to reject it. Part of this gospel would have been HIS declaring HIS intention to elect or chose everyone who put their faith in in HIM to be saved from all sin to become HIS heavenly Bride by the work of the Son while anyone who rejected this gospel would become eternally enslaved to the addictive power of evil rendering them eternally unfit to ever fulfill HIS purpose in our creation to be HIS Bride.
This must have happened before we saw the creation of the physical universe because once we saw this proof of HIS divinity and power no one not already addicted to evil would ever reject HIM or HIS gospel, knowing the reality of hell waited them. Therefore this decision to accept HIS gospel and become HIS elect or to reject this gospel and become HIS eternal enemies had to be by faith, an unproven hope that HE was telling us the truth or that HE was a liar and a false god. Thus our response to the gospel was the base for election and reprobation. The Satanic fall must have occured before the foundation of the world when we were elected and then after the earth was established, Satan and all sinners, elect and demonic, were flung into Sheol which is now in the centre of the earth and sown into the world as explained in the two part parable of the weeds in Matt 13.
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