Daniel 2:44 The Kingdom That Breaks All Other Kingdoms

Douggg said:

Revelation is for our time specifically. Because it contains the great tribulation and the abomination of desolation and Jesus's return.

Which Matthew 24 contains the two messages - one for the Jews, i.e. them living in Judea, who will go through the great tribulation in Matthew 24:15-31.

And the other message, which is for Christians on how to avoid going through the great tribulation, by the rapture, and knowing the season the rapture and the great tribulation will take place by the parable of the fig tree in Matthew 24:32-51.

Anyone who can't see that is really just blind... intentionally.

Click to expand...

Anyone who sees that is suffering from interpretation by hallucination.

Self-induced.

Spiritual Jew said:

Also:

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Click to expand...

You just described yourself - and jgr, and mkgal1, and BaB2. Because none of you believe that Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, 1967 is the parable of the fig tree generation. None of you believe that the seven years following Gog/Magog is the seven year 70th week of Daniel 9:27. None of you believe that the Antichrist will be the King of Israel/messiah coming in his own name.

Obviously v37 is not talking about the condition during the great tribulation, preceding the (Second) Coming of the Son of Man. It is talking about the season that the rapture will take place.

Spiritual Jew said:

Are you pre-trib? I backed up my view with scripture unlike you. You do nothing but share your opinions all the time without backing them up with scripture.

Click to expand...

I was pointing out that persecution, if that is how you define tribulation, has been non stop, and you do not need Scripture to point that out.

Show me just one verse that says pre-trib is escapism. If you can back that up with scripture I will dismiss that your pre-trib escapism is just a strawman argument with nothing to back it up with other than opinion. The pre-trib is not an escape clause.

The 3 sets of judgment in Revelation is proof of a pre-trib Second Coming. The Seals are for the church, because they unseal the Lamb's book of life. All the names in the book are those covered by the Atonement of the Cross. The church is complete and glorified even before the 7th seal is opened to unlock the book. Claiming the church goes on into the Trumpets is false. The Trumpets are for the separation of the sheep and the goats.

The point is about escapism and it cannot be found in the Bible. You have less proof about post trib, than Revelation 20 is proof of Christ ruling and reigning in Jerusalem, on David's physical throne.

The 4th Seal is a time of tribulation where 25% of humanity dies. The 6th Seal is still after those days of tribulation. Almost 2 billion people dying within months is not some picnic. Only God can stop the coming pandemic, famine, war, and attacks by wild animals. Never in history has there been a concentration of animals themselves fighting to kill humanity. Yes, wild animals attack when they are threatened. This is an attack of a different provocation.

If the seals are counted as the trib, I am not. The seals are being opened this last year. The Second Coming is the 6th Seal. I am pre-7th Seal.

jgr said:

Correct. Peter confirmed that David's throne is a heavenly throne occupied by Christ since His resurrection.



Immeasurably more than an illustration. As the One in whom are fulfilled all the promises of God (2 Corinthians 1:20), Christ is the promised Successor to David's throne. As the One who is the Heir of all things (Hebrews 1:1-2), Christ is the Heir to David's throne. Full-on flat-out fulfilled doctrine.

You are missing all the fulfilled dots.

Click to expand...

Man made dots do not count. Peter was talking to Jews who just crucified or heard about the Crucifixion of one claiming to be God. Peter pointed out their beloved King David's prophecy, and claimed the Resurrection of Christ fulfilled it. End of story. Ruling and reigning in Heaven may fulfill it in your head. But the audience would never see it that way. Your hindsight does not a doctrine make, 1990 years post message. The Resurrection would prove slightly that Jesus was a risen Messiah. But it would not make David's throne rule the sole purpose. Not even Spiritually if there was no one to Spiritually rule over. No one put any of this together 40 days after the Cross, but perhaps the disciples and a handful of faithful followers.

Peter was back in his boat fishing when the ascension of Jesus and the OT church took place. John 20:8-10

8 Then went in also the other disciple, which came first to the sepulcher, and he saw it, and believed.
9 For as yet they knew not the Scripture, That he must rise again from the dead.
10 And the disciples went away again unto their own home.

John 21:1-4

1 After these things, Jesus showed himself again to his disciples at the sea of Tiberias: and thus showed he himself:
2 There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas, which is called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two others of his disciples.
3 Simon Peter said unto them, I go a fishing. They said unto him, We also will go with thee. They went their way and entered into a ship straightway, and that night caught they nothing.
4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: nevertheless the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.

From Scripture, it took several visits from Jesus over the course of weeks for the Resurrection to sink in even for Jesus' closest followers, including the disciples.

Claiming Peter's message, even Spirit led, was about setting doctrine and creating theology, is stretching the limits of interpretation. It was about the Good News of the Atonement and the risen Savior. Peter took a point from David's writings, and declared Jesus as the risen Lord. Any rulership was not literal but figurative. Not that it would never happen physically.

Now we know Jesus was not going to set up an earthly Kingdom. Those in the 1st century were constantly expecting that to happen. It took the writings of Paul to clear that expectancy at point to a heavenly kingdom. But Paradise is not a kingdom, but a city or the address of all Adam's descendants in one place of residence.

Trying to figure out kingdoms, authority, physically in Paradise, or physically on earth is never going to be settled by posters here in 2020. Most live in a democracy of the people and by the people. We can have a head knowledge, but one can only understand until it is experienced. It is hard enough trying to understand that Spiritual is no different than physical. Both are tangible in the same way. Both were created by God as equally part of physical creation. When we recieve our robe of white, we will shine as stars. Adam had a body of light surrounding him before he died, the instant he disobeyed God. Christ will rule on earth for 1000 years as promised to David. That rule will continue on in the NHNE. The proof of that is in Acts 2, and it is called a Resurrection.

Douggg said:

You just described yourself - and jgr, and mkgal1, and BaB2. Because none of you believe that Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, 1967 is the parable of the fig tree generation.

Click to expand...

No, it's not.

None of you believe that the seven years following Gog/Magog is the seven year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

Click to expand...

That is correct. Jesus confirmed the new covenant during the 70th week and took away the sins of the world by His sacrifice. To attribute an Antichrist as being the one who fulfills the 70th week instead of Christ is just mind boggling to me.

None of you believe that the Antichrist will be the King of Israel/messiah coming in his own name.

Click to expand...

That is correct. We don't believe in fairy tales. Makes for an entertaining fictional novel or movie, I suppose, but also makes for very bad scriptural exegesis.

Obviously v37 is not talking about the condition during the great tribulation, preceding the (Second) Coming of the Son of Man. It is talking about the season that the rapture will take place.

Click to expand...

Not, it's talking about what will happen after the tribulation, as Matthew 24:29-31 makes abundantly clear.

So, in regards to Matthew 24:35-39 do you agree with Jesus then that at the time of the rapture all of the wicked will be killed just as they were in the flood in Noah's day and heaven and earth will pass away, which lines up with what Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:3-13?

Douggg said:

You just described yourself - and jgr, and mkgal1, and BaB2. Because none of you believe that Jerusalem back in the hands of the Jews, 1967 is the parable of the fig tree generation. None of you believe that the seven years following Gog/Magog is the seven year 70th week of Daniel 9:27. None of you believe that the Antichrist will be the King of Israel/messiah coming in his own name.

Obviously v37 is not talking about the condition during the great tribulation, preceding the (Second) Coming of the Son of Man. It is talking about the season that the rapture will take place.

Click to expand...

On the day after His triumphant entry into Jerusalem, many of the citizens of Jerusalem heralded Him, saying, “Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest” (Mark 11:9-11).

But the text continues in Mark 11:13-14, “seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever.”

Did Christ curse this fig tree simply to prove His deity? Did He do it for no obvious reason? Or was He impressing some great spiritual truth upon His disciples in regard to natural Israel?

This was not some pointless irrelevant act to prove Christ’s deity or omnipotence; it was an object lesson in regard to Israel. The fig tree symbolically represents the physical nation of Israel whereas the olive tree represents the spiritual people of Israel. When Christ cursed the fig tree He was demonstrating the removing of the exclusive theocratic favor of God from the physical nation of Israel, whereas, the olive tree will exist forever. Years of abusing God’s favor, years of successive misrule among the national judges and kings, and the spiritual leaders, especially among the priests, and ongoing idolatry and stubborn rebellion among the people, finally brought the theocratic reign to an end. Never again will God’s favor be restricted to a genetic temporal earthly nation, but rather to a spiritual eternal heavenly nation.

Verse 12-14 records, in the NKJV: “Now the next day, when they had come out from Bethany, He was hungry. And seeing from afar a fig tree having leaves, He went to see if perhaps He would find something on it. When He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. In response Jesus said to it, ‘Let no one eat fruit from you ever again’.”

After this the Lord significantly headed straight for the very epicenter of the Jewish religion – the temple – and overturned the tables, demonstrating that He had had enough with their religious hypocrisy and stubborn rebellion.

Verse 15-17 in the KJV says, “they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.”

The favor of God was never intended to be limited to one nation. It was always God’s plan to reach the nations. This was the great turning point in history where kingdom blessing was transferred from the physical entity of natural Israel to the spiritual entity of the New Testament Church. With the introduction of the new covenant arrangement that move occurred. His house would no longer be considered a physical house in Jerusalem, but rather a spiritual house that would be a home throughout “all nations.”

The arrival of the new covenant arrangement, and the broadening out of the people of God, coincided with the removal of the old covenant apparatus. This was Jesus revealing His heart and plan for a fallen world.

Timtofly said:

I was pointing out that persecution, if that is how you define tribulation, has been non stop, and you do not need Scripture to point that out.

Show me just one verse that says pre-trib is escapism.

Click to expand...

Show me where I ever said that scripture teaches pre-trib is escapism? I didn't. I do believe that pre-trib appeals to people who are afraid of tribulation. But, all I did was show that the rapture is post-trib rather than pre-trib and we should not expect to avoid tribulation when scripture teaches that all who want to live godly lives will suffer persecution (2 Tim 3:12). Why would that change at any point in the future?

Spiritual Jew said:

So, in regards to Matthew 24:35-39 do you agree with Jesus then that at the time of the rapture all of the wicked will be killed just as they were in the flood in Noah's day and heaven and earth will pass away, which lines up with what Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:3-13?

Click to expand...

Matthew 24 is not talking about the end of this present earth, but the end of the age. Jesus returns to this present earth to end the great tribulation.

The flood, during which so many died, Noah and his family were placed in the ark before the flood began.

sovereigngrace said:

Did Christ curse this fig tree simply to prove His deity? Did He do it for no obvious reason? Or was He impressing some great spiritual truth upon His disciples in regard to natural Israel?

Click to expand...

Was Jesus entering "Israel" or "Jerusalem" when he cursed the fig tree?

The 70 weeks in Daniel are upon Daniel's people, the Jews, and Jerusalem.

Douggg said:

Matthew 24 is not talking about the end of this present earth, but the end of the age. Jesus returns to this present earth to end the great tribulation.

Click to expand...

How can heaven and earth passing away not refer to the end of this present earth? The end of this present earth will happen at the end of the age when Christ returns.

How do you interpret the following passage which speaks of the same event that Christ taught about in Mathew 24:35-39.

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

This is a very clear, straightforward passage that premillennialists cannot possibly reconcile with their doctrine. Just like Jesus taught in Matthew 24:35-39, this passage talks about heaven and earth passing away (by way of fire) at His coming. Just like Jesus taught in Matthew 24:35-39, this passages clearly indicates that global destruction on the same scale of the flood in Noah's day will occur when He returns, with the difference being that this time it will be by fire.

It's very clear that this global destruction will occur on the day He returns. Notice that Peter first talks about scoffers in the last day scoffing at the idea of Him coming again because of how long it has been and that nothing has changed. But they will be ignorant of the fact that God once before destroyed all of the wicked on the earth with a global flood. He destroyed all of the wicked on the earth once, so why would anyone think He wouldn't ever do it again, only this time by fire? Those scoffers are ignorant.

Then Peter indicates that the Lord is not being slack concerning the promise of His coming. He is being patient while giving everyone an opportunity to repent first before He comes because He wants all people to repent. Right after that is the description of the burning up of the heavens and the earth. The context never changes. This is all about what will happen at His second coming.

Then, notice what Peter says after describing the destruction of the current heavens and earth by fire. He said that despite what he had just said, we look forward to "new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness". We are not looking forward to an earthly millennial kingdom when Christ returns. We, like Peter, are looking forward to the new heavens and new earth when He returns.

The flood, during which so many died, Noah and his family were placed in the ark before the flood began.

Click to expand...

They weren't removed from the earth. There will be no need for Christ to gather His church to Himself until the day He returns when the final wrath of God is brought down upon the earth as Peter describes in 2 Peter 3:10-12.

Douggg said:

Was Jesus entering "Israel" or "Jerusalem" when he cursed the fig tree?

The 70 weeks in Daniel are upon Daniel's people, the Jews, and Jerusalem.

Click to expand...

The 70 weeks are long completed. To deny that is to deny history and Scripture.

From Jacob, and throughout the Old Testament, God sovereignly worked through this one individual nation. He sovereignly selected natural Israel to fulfil His plan and purposes for mankind. Salvation was largely restricted within the borders of national Israel apart from the salvation of the Gentile city of Nineveh and the conversion to Judaism of Gentiles during the rule of Queen Esther. The only other conversions under the old covenant were the occasional individual Gentile within Israel. The nation was governed by the teaching of Scripture and many within that nation came to a personal salvation in Christ. Even those who did not surrender their hearts to God were required to keep all the outward observances of the law. That did not mean that a Jew was saved by his race, heritage or birth. Each of these privileged nationals still had to come to a place of personal faith.

Salvation is no longer operated through a nationalistic theocracy in this New Testament era, neither is it restricted to one lone nation. The cross changed all that. What altered was that Christ’s exclusive focus upon natural Israel was widened out to include all nations equally. The lost and rejected throughout the Gentile world have been availed an equal opportunity to freely enter into salvation through the atoning work of the cross. The grace of God permeates all nations today. The Lord removed the natural Israeli boundaries that existed to reach the nations. All nations, tribes and peoples today are therefore viewed the same by Christ. Israel’s previous favored position no longer exists today. It has been eternally removed by Christ and the new eternal covenant arrangement. God now works through a spiritual nation that transcends all the national borders of the world and embraces all nations. This is his only structure on this earth; it is the only spiritual edifice that He recognizes and uses for His glory.

Dispensationalism is inherently racially prejudiced in that it discriminates between humans. It holds to a form of spiritual apartheid. Israel cannot come to Christ and join the Church in this age, they must wait until some supposed age after the “rapture” when the Church is gone in order to be eligible to get saved. What is more, Dispensationalism places Jewish sinners in a superior plain to Gentile sinners. Jews outside of Christ are viewed differently than Gentiles outside of Christ. Unsaved Jews are looked upon as God’s chosen people despite the fact they reject Christ. This cannot be. In fact, this is expressly forbidden by Scripture. We cannot differentiate between sinners. All Christ-rejecters are under the wrath of God and are of their father the devil, all saved Jews and Gentiles are washed in the blood of Jesus are therefore under the approval of God. God’s chosen people are not simply Jews (those who by an accident of birth are the uncircumcised), but Jews and Gentile who love Jesus. That is the biblical criteria for walking in the blessing of God. God doesn’t choose anyone that doesn’t choose His Son. God’s chosen people are the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ throughout the ages.

Douggg said:

Matthew 24 is not talking about the end of this present earth, but the end of the age. Jesus returns to this present earth to end the great tribulation.

The flood, during which so many died, Noah and his family were placed in the ark before the flood began.

Click to expand...

That is your opinion. But the text exposes your beliefs. It is not enough to foist your views on Scripture, you must let Scripture force it teaching on you. Simple!

God always rescues all His elect before He destroys all the wicked. Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

sovereigngrace said:

The 70 weeks are long completed. To deny that is to deny history and Scripture.

From Jacob, and throughout the Old Testament, God sovereignly worked through this one individual nation. He sovereignly selected natural Israel to fulfil His plan and purposes for mankind. Salvation was largely restricted within the borders of national Israel apart from the salvation of the Gentile city of Nineveh and the conversion to Judaism of Gentiles during the rule of Queen Esther. The only other conversions under the old covenant were the occasional individual Gentile within Israel. The nation was governed by the teaching of Scripture and many within that nation came to a personal salvation in Christ. Even those who did not surrender their hearts to God were required to keep all the outward observances of the law. That did not mean that a Jew was saved by his race, heritage or birth. Each of these privileged nationals still had to come to a place of personal faith.

Salvation is no longer operated through a nationalistic theocracy in this New Testament era, neither is it restricted to one lone nation. The cross changed all that. What altered was that Christ’s exclusive focus upon natural Israel was widened out to include all nations equally. The lost and rejected throughout the Gentile world have been availed an equal opportunity to freely enter into salvation through the atoning work of the cross. The grace of God permeates all nations today. The Lord removed the natural Israeli boundaries that existed to reach the nations. All nations, tribes and peoples today are therefore viewed the same by Christ. Israel’s previous favored position no longer exists today. It has been eternally removed by Christ and the new eternal covenant arrangement. God now works through a spiritual nation that transcends all the national borders of the world and embraces all nations. This is his only structure on this earth; it is the only spiritual edifice that He recognizes and uses for His glory.

Dispensationalism is inherently racially prejudiced in that it discriminates between humans. It holds to a form of spiritual apartheid. Israel cannot come to Christ and join the Church in this age, they must wait until some supposed age after the “rapture” when the Church is gone in order to be eligible to get saved. What is more, Dispensationalism places Jewish sinners in a superior plain to Gentile sinners. Jews outside of Christ are viewed differently than Gentiles outside of Christ. Unsaved Jews are looked upon as God’s chosen people despite the fact they reject Christ. This cannot be. In fact, this is expressly forbidden by Scripture. We cannot differentiate between sinners. All Christ-rejecters are under the wrath of God and are of their father the devil, all saved Jews and Gentiles are washed in the blood of Jesus are therefore under the approval of God. God’s chosen people are not simply Jews (those who by an accident of birth are the uncircumcised), but Jews and Gentile who love Jesus. That is the biblical criteria for walking in the blessing of God. God doesn’t choose anyone that doesn’t choose His Son. God’s chosen people are the redeemed Church of Jesus Christ throughout the ages.

Click to expand...

I asked you "Was Jesus entering "Israel" or "Jerusalem" when he cursed the fig tree?"

Spiritual Jew said:

How can heaven and earth passing away not refer to the end of this present earth? The end of this present earth will happen at the end of the age when Christ returns.

Click to expand...

Out of context again. Jesus was emphasizing the certainty of what he said was going to happen.

Douggg said:

I asked you "Was Jesus entering "Israel" or "Jerusalem" when he cursed the fig tree?"

Click to expand...

He was entering the heart of Israeli life and the old covenant ceremonial system and cursing the theocratic system forever. Zionism was dead forever. The new covenant would supersede a failed system based on man's obedience, and replace it by a better, more efficacious and longer-lasting new covenant that was based on God's obedience.

The main difference between the Old Testament period and the New Testament period is their perspective of Jesus Christ! The Old Testament was looking forward to the coming Messiah. The New Testament reveals His arrival and precious work on man’s behalf. As we dig deeper and compare both, we notice that there are notable differences between the two arrangements. We see a significant move:

· From the shadow and type to the substance and reality
· From the imperfect to the perfect
· From the inadequate to the all-sufficient.
· From the physical to the spiritual
· From the external to the internal
· From the natural to the supernatural
· From the temporary to the eternal
· From the earthly to the heavenly
· From the national to the international
· From the conditional to the unconditional

These two economies couldn’t be more diverse. The improvement is obvious, substantial and indisputable. The repercussions are even greater for mankind. What was long-anticipated by the old covenant prophets has now wonderfully arrived. The appearance of Israel’s Messiah was the pivotal moment in history and the catalyst for a colossal transformative change.

The book of Hebrews shows the abolition of the old covenant arrangement and its replacement by the new superior covenant. It is absorbed with the superiority of Christ. Hebrews 8:6 declares: “now hath he [Christ] obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”

The old covenant is gone forever. It has been replaced by a new and better covenant. There is absolutely no distinction between Jew and Gentile today in Christ. The old is obsolete. What is more, there is not one single teaching from Christ, Paul, Peter or any of the New Testament writers that remotely suggests the Old Testament land promises, ordinances or traditions lasted any longer than the cross. The focus is Christ’s redemptive work, and the scope is extended to the world.

Douggg said:

Out of context again. Jesus was emphasizing the certainty of what he said was going to happen.

Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Please elaborate in detail. You know, like I did. Your drive by one liner statements don't cut it.

When Jesus said "the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt 24:39), can you not see that He was saying just as all the wicked were killed in the flood, the wicked will all be killed at the coming of the Son of man as well? That lines up with Him saying that heaven and earth will pass away. And it lines up perfectly with what Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:3-13.

Douggg said:

Out of context again. Jesus was emphasizing the certainty of what he said was going to happen.

Click to expand...

You are totally fudging the point Spiritual Jew made. You have to because it forbids Premil theory.

Premils have no answer to the fact that Scripture shows the regeneration of the earth, heavens and elements to occur at Christ's return, not after some imaginary future millennial kingdom blighted with sin and sinners, dying and crying, corruption and crime, war and terror of the Premil scenario, including the pointless slaughter of countless innocent animals during that period.

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

Spiritual Jew said:

What are you talking about? Please elaborate in detail. You know, like I did. Your drive by one liner statements don't cut it.

When Jesus said "the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." (Matt 24:39), can you not see that He was saying just as all the wicked were killed in the flood, the wicked will all be killed at the coming of the Son of man as well? That lines up with Him saying that heaven and earth will pass away. And it lines up perfectly with what Peter taught in 2 Peter 3:3-13.

Click to expand...

Amen!

For years, Premils have boasted that they are the true literalists. They have, in turn, criticized Amils, and condemned them for spiritualizing. Ironically, this criticism has arisen due to the figurative approach Amils have to the most symbolic book in the Bible - Revelation. Of course, that is not true. I have shown for quite some time that the opposite is actually true. Premils spiritualize what is literal and literalize what is spiritual. Above is a case-in-point.

sovereigngrace said:

Amen!

For years, Premils have boasted that they are the true literalists. They have, in turn, criticized Amils, and condemned them for spiritualizing. Ironically, this criticism has arisen due to the figurative approach Amils have to the most symbolic book in the Bible - Revelation. Of course, that is not true. I have shown for quite some time that the opposite is actually true. Premils spiritualize what is literal and literalize what is spiritual. Above is a case-in-point.

Click to expand...

That is absolutely correct. For them to ever criticize us for spiritualizing scripture is nothing short of hypocritical.

We take scripture passages like Matthew 24:35-39, John 5:28-29, 2 Peter 3:3-13, 1 Thess 4:13-5:6, 2 Thess 1:7-10 and Rev 19:18 very literally and they do not. They frequently spiritualize clear and straightforward scripture while we take it literally as intended.

sovereigngrace said:

He was entering the heart of Israeli life and the old covenant ceremonial system and cursing the theocratic system forever.

Click to expand...

I guess it is kinda hard for you to say that Jesus and the disciples were entering Jerusalem when Jesus cursed the fig tree beside the road, and not Israel.