- Jun 28, 2018
- 15,549
- 5,876
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
God is love and the spiritual evidence that builds faith. If you experience God, you cannot help but believe.Are faith and love the same thing?
Upvote
0
God is love and the spiritual evidence that builds faith. If you experience God, you cannot help but believe.Are faith and love the same thing?
See that is an appeal to saving grace when you say ''those who die in the womb go to be with Him who created them'' so what happened to gospel principle?
You admit some people go to heaven without needing to hear the Gospel?
The Bible says unless a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour they are separated from God.
How exactly does this faith in Christ come about, from scripture. "Soul winners" will knock on people's door or go out street preaching the message "believe in Jesus" and I agree faith is needed. The question is: How do we do that? Specifically how can a lost person get faith in Jesus?
1). I don't know. I do know that God is merciful and gracious. I do know that the unborn cannot commit sin. So my opinion (rather than what I know for sure) is that the unborn dead will be accepted into heaven.Two points in regard to Romans 10:17
1) If you believe that a person must hear the gospel to be saved,what happens to unborn people that die in the womb?
2) I interpret Romans 10:18 to mean all people have heard Gods word by his creation so the gospel is not necessary in every single case of salvation,only the saving grace of God is. If you disagree with scripture interpretation,what is your counterargument?
I hold to the five points of Reformed salvation,yes.
The Bible says unless a person believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and saviour they are separated from God.
How exactly does this faith in Christ come about, from scripture. "Soul winners" will knock on people's door or go out street preaching the message "believe in Jesus" and I agree faith is needed. The question is: How do we do that? Specifically how can a lost person get faith in Jesus?
I once read that Aquinas said that everyone is born with an innate faith in ‘G_D’...I thought that maybe the cares of the world distract us from Him?That scripture says "live by faith" meaning code of conduct for the saints, I am asking how we get faith to begin with.
Could you please use scripture so we can examine this from Gods authoritative word.
The faith that is given is to people are already believers. We know this because Paul identifies them at the start of the chapter as ''brethren'' or fellow Christians.
Romans 12:1-3
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.
John 3:16 does not tell us how to believe and that is what we are investigating.
In regard to Romans 10:17:
Two points in regard to that scripture.
1) If you believe that a person must hear the gospel to be saved,what happens to unborn people that die in the womb?
2) I interpret Romans 10:18 to mean all people have heard Gods word by his creation so the gospel is not necessary in every single case of salvation,only the saving grace of God is. If you disagree with scripture interpretation,what is your counterargument?
I already affirmed that I'm not talking about common knowledge, or head knowledge, even though knowledge of creation does, in fact, support our faith by the use of reason, giving "motives of credibility" as they're sometimes called. Either way faith is absolutely based on knowledge. And you only prove my point that knowledge is critical since your theology is novel and confused.
The knowledge I'm speaking of is direct, immediate, spiritual, and in seedling form to begin with.
Every Word that God has ever spoken is “In Righteousness” (Proverbs 8:8), and therefore must be heard and received (Revelation 3:3) through Faith in the Cross of Jesus Christ, or we remain trapped in the Letter of the Law and forfeit the opportunity to walk in the newness of the Spirit. If this is not understood, there will only be a make-believe spiritual walk and one might even have a name that they are alive, but Christ says they will be dead (Revelation 3:1). The Letter of the Law can only produce carnal Christians, and to be carnally minded is death (Romans 8:6). We must look to the Cross and live!
If it's not Faith in Christ and what He did for us at the Cross, then it's Faith that God will not recognize. The apostle says, "Christ shall profit you nothing" (Gal. 5:2). He says, "Christ is become of no effect unto you" (Gal. 5:4). THAT INCLUDES YOUR PRAYERS!
That's the terrible problem that affixes itself to most Christians. They are trusting in things other than the Cross, making Christ of no effect. This guarantees spiritual failure. In fact, when the believer do this, they fall from Grace. In other words, the goodness of God, which, in effect, is the Grace of God, can no longer be extended to such Christians. The end result of such a position is bleak indeed!
Our battle is not against acts of sin, but the fight is to keep our Faith in who Christ is and what He did on the Cross, so we stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious. That is the only way we are triumphant in Christ (II Cor. 2:14). And that is the only way He can work in us both to will (change our desires), and to do (give us the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13), so we can overcome sin. This is the only way believers can yield themselves as God’s servants (slaves) of obedience instead of being slaves to sin unto death (Rom. 6:16).
Remember, the scripture tells us in Acts 10 that Cornelius:
Was a devout man (but unsaved)
Who feared God with all his house (but unsaved)
Gave much alms to the people (but unsaved)
And PRAYED to God ALWAYS (but unsaved)
Saw in a vision (but unsaved)
An Angel of God came to him (but unsaved)
The Angel knew his name (but yet, unsaved)
All these things were wonderful, and certainly noticed by the Lord; but they did not save the man, even as they do not save anyone now; being religious does not constitute Salvation; there must be an acceptance of Christ and His Finished Work, if one is to be saved as Cornelius and all of his house did by hearing and believing the Gospel in its truth and righteous context from Peter. (John 3:16; Rom. 10:9-10, 13)
Placing your Faith in Christ while ignoring the Cross is another Jesus. 2 Cor. 11:4
JSM
What exactly is ''direct, immediate, spiritual'' Knowledge?
You already ruled common knowledge by the creation and ''head'' knowledge which I assume is the intellectual knowledge of Man,so what exactly are these things you are talking about from scripture?
For a scriptural reference, I suggest Hebrews 6:
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
In terms of theologically communicable, rather than experientially communicable, here one has the description of an experience from which one cannot recover if they have had it, and still fall away. This is rather distinct from a more common falling away, and returning, under "common" Christian experience, and it is difficult to be theologically consistent without acknowledging this as a distinct form of direct experience.
Head knowledge and common knowledge are essentially the same, both derived from reason and/or everyday experience. But there is also a "non-everyday" experience when it comes to the knowledge of God, and this experience is a supernatural gift, the gift of faith. It's been referred to by theologians as a sort of dim foretaste of the immediate knowledge of God, aka the Beatific Vision, which is to meet and behold God in heaven-to know Him- in a direct manner which He enables.What exactly is ''direct, immediate, spiritual'' Knowledge?
You already ruled common knowledge by the creation and ''head'' knowledge which I assume is the intellectual knowledge of Man,so what exactly are these things you are talking about from scripture?
I'm stopping here without reading further because you seem to be missing an important point of what you've just said.
The answer regarding the question of salvation as given by Paul and Silas is, “Believe in the Lord Jesus …” Acts of the Apostles 16:31. The Greek word translated “believe” in the passage is pisteuo, meaning “to believe, put one’s faith in, trust, with an implication that actions based on that trust may follow.” Belief as a command, then, encompasses more than just knowing about Jesus. One must also act on this knowledge, combining faith and trust, so I would put it this way:
In Romans the Word says for salvation we must do two things - not one. The first is to confess Christ as Lord, the second is to believe in your heart in that He is raised from the dead.
On the Day of Judgment, all (*believers and unbelievers alike) will confess Christ IS Lord.
What the Christian does in his confession then is to turn from self, and bring himself under that Lordship. Christ is confessed not just as to His nature, but His nature as it relates to us right now... and this will affect our every aspect of life thereafter as we bring ourselves into submission more and more under His Lordship, hence many use the term "saving faith".
One can believe, and not place themselves under Christ's Lordship (Satan and his angels), or one can place themselves under Christ's Lordship without true belief (hedging ones bet, just in case...) or many different levels of each of these things.
I assume firstly your just talking about belief itself, and leaving Christ's Lordship over us as a different topic altogether (?).
The faith God gives, in that case, is to non-believers, to turn them from their unbelief to belief...submitting to His Lordship over us, is something that, while Christ does in us, is also developed in greater capacity over time which we also have some conscious hand in...
The commands that are given, and the letters written in the Bible, are to be certain we are bringing ourselves into submission under His Lordship in our Christian walk... an entirely different prospect altogether from belief that leads us to become Christian.
Works (living sacrifies) are done in love (and gratitude) for what Christ has done for us, but faith/belief is from God alone. When works are spoken of, they are ONLY spoken of to believers. When "faith being necessary" is spoken of, it is spoken to the lost.
Our part in moving the non-believer toward belief, outside of praying for them, is through our testimony about our faith and belief... we dont command them to belief, it's not something that can be commanded so when speaking to the lost we mention the necessity of having faith, then explain why you personally have it (give your own testimony).
If they in turn tell you why they don't believe, you have a discussion opening that you can answer to with the details they personally need for their own belief to actualize.
(I am also a 5 point Calvinist)
Let's be honest, I don't know exactly faith comes and you don't either. If the Gospel was a manual for salvation I think after two thousand years it would have been understood,shared and the world saved. Has that happened? Of course not,because the Gospel is not a manual for salvation.
Head knowledge and common knowledge are essentially the same, both derived from reason and/or everyday experience. But there is also a "non-everyday" experience when it comes to the knowledge of God, and this experience is a supernatural gift, the gift of faith. It's been referred to by theologians as a sort of dim foretaste of the immediate knowledge of God, aka the Beatific Vision, which is to meet and behold God in heaven-to know Him- in a direct manner which He enables.
"For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." 1 Cor 13:12
This knowledge is not common or scientific knowledge, this is personal knowledge which has been revealed and received. It's sort of like how you know a close friend; you know them, not just facts about them, but this Friend is much more beautiful and profound, needless to say. Revealing this knowledge is an intrinsic part of the reason Jesus came. Again, as we come to know God we become reconciled with Him because to truly know Him is to believe in, trust/hope in, and, most importantly, love Him-that cannot be helped. As a side note here I always appreciate the words of a 4th century bishop, Basil of Caesarea:
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children."