WHY THE LORD'S DAY IS NOT SUNDAY

LoveGodsWord said: ↑The word "κυριακη" (translit. "kuriake") is an Adjective - Dative - Singular - Feminine. This means it is being used as a 'possessive' as ownership or belonging to ("of", see 1 Corinthians 11:20, "the Lord's supper"), which means the "day" in context belongs to "the Lord". It is literally "the Lord's (belonging to) day".

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Your response here...

TibiasDad said:

I was just trolling and saw this thread and just want to point out, without having read any further than the above quotation , that the Genitive is the case of possession, not the Dative. In this case, the Dative is the "Dative of Time (Answering ‘When?’ or ‘At what point of time?’) - The emphasis is on the chronology of an event. It indicates a particular point of time within a succession of events.

E.g. Matthew 20:19 "on the third day He will be raised" " vs "on the Lord's day".

Doug

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Hi TibiasDad, nice to meet you. Most of what you have provided in your post has already been provided in the post you are were quoting from including the dative. The context however of time is to the day in Revelation 1:10. Matthew 12:8 is the only scripture that defines directly what day is the "Lord's day". There is no other links in scripture that define the "Lords day" or links the "Lords day" to Sunday or the "First day" of the week in all of God's Word.

God bless

Root of Jesse said:

Yeah, if you want to honor the Sabbath rest, please do. But we worship Jesus as Lord on Sunday, because that's the day He rose. I mean, even in the Passion of the Lord, he died on Friday, rested on Saturday, and rose on Sunday.

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Trouble is Jesse it is not biblical. There is no scripture or direction from the Apostles to do so.

BobRyan said:

Let's start by actually reading Matthew 12:8
"8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Hmm given that there is no such thing as a text that says "week day 1 is the Lord's day" and given that the challenge is to find a Bible text pointing us to some day of the week that is the "Lord's day" it is obvious that Matthew 12:8 would be one of the texts to look at since we don't actually have a text that says "week day 1 is the Lord's day".

Isaiah 58:13 might be another good place to look - since we don't actually have a text saying week-day-1 is the Lord's day.

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The scriptures in the Old testament showing "my Sabbaths" of "my holy day" link directly to Matthew 12:8. I normally post this as a link as well but forgot if I did that here in this thread. Thanks for sharing Bob

God bless

thecolorsblend said:

No. They’re not. You’ve posted a bunch of context-free scriptures which have just about nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

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Sure they are. The scriptures quoted are to topical application to subject matter. If you disagree perhaps you can show why?

TibiasDad said:

Hello, thank you for your kind greeting. My only point was, and is, the the Dative of Time, and the Dative in general is not used to show possession, that is the Genitive case. As far as the question of the thread is concerned, I think it is not an issue to make any fuss over, certainly not to make accusations or imply something negative about someone, or the large majority of Christendom, that may disagree with your position for whatever reason. I am reminded of Paul's exhortation to the Romans:

Rom 14:5One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:

“ ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,‘ every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’ ”

12So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.

Doug

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Your welcome. My earlier post already shows that the dative of time was to the day that John was in the Spirit on which is the immediate context of Revelation 1:10 "... in the Spirit on the Lords day" Matthew 12:8 is the only scripture that directly defines what day is the "Lord's day" which is a reference to God's sabbath day. There is no other links in scripture that define the "Lords day" or links the "Lords day" to Sunday or the "First day" of the week in all of God's Word.

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Romans 14 is in reference to eating and not eating on days that men esteem over other days and judging others. There is no mention of God's 4th commandment Sabbath in Romans 14 at all.

Some points to consider in Romans 14:1-15

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.
[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on
[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem: Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments
[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)
[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin: Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14
[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.
[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).
[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14
[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans
[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".
[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day
[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

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Romans 14 has nothing to do with God's 4th commandment Sabbath that is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7.

There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken according to the scriptures when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11

Hope this helps