Number one thing to understanding end times bible prophecy.....

Douggg said:

Please clarify with a "yes" or "no" type response. Expand your response, if you feel necessary.

Does your theory not claim that the sixth seal event is before the great tribulation begins?

Does your theory equate the sixth seal event, regarding the shaking of the powers of heaven, with Matthew 24:29 ?

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Yes, The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster will occur before the final seven years.
I would think it will be at least 3-4 years before, time needed to establish a OWG government and for the new nation in the holy Land to become settled and prosperous.

No, Mathew 24:29 refers to the Great Trib, the Trumpets and Bowls of the final 3 1/2 years before the Return. The cosmic events do not match the SS.

Douggg said:

Now if you could just put all those events on a timeline chart, people could quickly evaluate the likely-hood of your theory.

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Any chart which attempts to put the Book of Revelation in chronological order, will only create more confusion.


Recapitulation is the only way to truly understand the book, as explained in the video below.


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BABerean2 said:

Any chart which attempts to put the Book of Revelation in chronological order, will only create more confusion.

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I agree. To a lot of people, esp women; maps, plans, charts, etc, are incomprehensible. It only takes one mis-placed event to throw the whole lot out.
But Revelation is Written in a general sequence of events. The Seals, Trumpets and Bowls will happen in their order.

Revelation, the Book dictated to John by Jesus, does give a proper sequence of the end times events. With some asides of more details.
We are given an overview from God's perspective of 7 types of Church's. Note that each one has some Overcomers in them. The true, faithful people of God, His Israelites by faith. Proved by Galatians 3:26-29 & 6:14-16
Jesus is the Seed, the real Israel and we; His Christian followers are the inheritors of all the promises of God to Israel. Romans 8:16-18

Jesus opens the Seals, 1 to 5 at His Ascension, and we have experienced all the wars, famines and plagues possible, without wiping out humankind completely. The 5th Seal proves it is open, by the souls of all the martyrs since Stephen, kept under the heavenly Altar.
But as the cosmic events described in the Sixth Seal, have not occurred yet, then this will be the next prophesied event. Proved by how Jesus stopped His quote of Isaiah 61, in the second verse, before:.... and a day of the vengeance of our Lord.

This world changing disaster, triggered by an attack onto Israel by the Islamic peoples, will set the stage for all that must happen before Jesus Returns.
All as described in Revelation and throughout the Bible, leading up to the 1000 year reign of King Jesus and then the final Judgement of everyone and then Eternity.
Those found worthy will receive immortality, but the outcome for those whose names are not found in the Book of Life; is annihilation.

Douggg said:

An update to my original post....



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Who was the mother of the man-child who will with a rod of Iron, and why did her husband take her and the baby to Egypt?


Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.



Mat 2:12 And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.
Mat 2:13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Mat 2:14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:
Mat 2:15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

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Douggg said:

But Mary is not the woman in Revelation 12:1-5,

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Who is the "man-child" who will rule the nations with a rod of Iron, and who was His mother?


Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.


Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


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Douggg said:

@BABerean2

Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Israel.

Revelaton 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.


All of the time frames are on my chart. And where the person is the king of the Roman Empire. And when he is not, as being the Antichrist for most of the 1260 days.


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If you have to claim Mary is not the mother of Jesus in Revelation 12 to make your chart work, then your chart is not correct.


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Douggg said:

The woman in Revelation 12 is obviously not Mary.

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Thank God. You are right this once. In God's eyes, the woman is the Congregation of Israel which Mary is merely part of.

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

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This is the victory of Christ at the Cross and went up to heaven, verse 5. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, verse 6. Satan has been cast out of heaven (symbolically Old Testament Congregation of Isreal), verses 8 and 9. Now the Salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God has come through the New Testament Congregation, verse 10.

Now verse 13 is telling us that AFTER Satan was cast out of old testament congregation, Satan is fury and now comes after the woman who is NOW represents the New Testament Congregation after the resurrection of the Messiah and Pentecost. This is the SAME woman, the congregation of Israel, just that the kingdom representative was changed from Old to New.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

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The wings symbolize the protection of God. The Wilderness is typifying the world (a spiritual desert) where the delivered Church spends it's journey until they reach the promised land. This wilderness is her place where the Church must first tabernacle before it enters the promised land, just like the Old Testament Congregation as a physical example! The wings she is given symbolize the Care, Protection, and Security that God established for His Church. The woman is now protected on eagles wings "in the world" where is her place until Christ's return. This is God using symbolism to put forth many Spiritual truths. And as I said, it is an exact parallel with the nation Israel when she was freed from bondage to Egypt. Israel then had to go through a wilderness journey before she could enter the promised land. Likewise here in Revelation 12, this woman, now representing New Testament Congregation of Israel, the Church, must spend time in the wilderness (World) after she is delivered of the man child before she enters the Promised land. Just as the "type" or [skia] shadow which preceded her. And the Lord will bring this Woman unto Himself, just as He brought the nation Israel unto Himself. By no stretch of the imagination would we think that any of these things are coincidences. And yet there are some who try very hard to convince themselves it is not parallel, nor a type. But you would really have to be trying very hard not to see this truth illustrated here. The Wings that the Woman is given in Revelation 12 corresponds to the wings God has "always" provided for Israel to bring her securely unto Himself.

When was Mary ever persecuted BABerean2 ?

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Well, duh. Of course, Mary experienced personal difficulties with the virgin birth, looked down by Jewish leaders and some Jews after Christ started his ministries, and have witnessed her child being hated by his own people and put to death. Listen, Mary is part of the Old Testament Congregation of Israel and she was chosen by God out of the congregation to physically deliver Man Child, her Savior for herself and chosen congregation of Israel, first the Jews, then the Gentiles.

Douggg said:

the woman is the Congregation of Israel

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LOL.

Then you have to explain the following verse:

Revelation 12:5-6 KJV
[5] And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
[6] And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Tell us what is your interpretation with national Israel in view in verse 6. AND what happens after a 1,260 days.

Douggg said:

No, future.

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Sorry, nope. Clearly, the woman fled into the wilderness after christ was caught up into God. Not after your imaginary gap theory. You don't even know what desert, where a woman dwells, is referred to!

Douggg, Your chart is filled with so many errors because you only focus on national Israel that God did not talk about in Revelation 12, to begin with. You basically created a gap of almost 2 thousand years between Christ ascended up into heaven and national Israel, you alleged will flee into some physical wilderness somewhere "safe" for 1,260 days during the days of antichrist in the future?!

Is that what God is talking about, really?

You need to read the following study on Revelation 12.

Therefore your chart has been denied by me and the Word of God that I testified.