Futurist Only Prophecy to be fulfilled.

FredVB · Jun 11, 2020

keras said:
Words mean things, in the eyes of God, we who overcome Satan ARE Gods Israelites.

Certainly words mean something, of course, unless you make up sounds with no meaning. But you know better, there is such thing as playing with words. The autosuggest I use even knew that.

Those who respond to the Gospel, are the true Israelites:
The people who hear the voice of Jesus and do what Jesus says: are my people of Israel, My Overcomers, the Victorious ones, literally the Israelites of God. Revelation 3:20-21 Not ethnic Jewish Israel, but the genuine Christian Israel of God. Galatians 6:14-16

Jesus sent His Disciples-Apostles to the Gentiles; non-Jews, where the House of Israel was; scattered around the world. Not to Judah, as He preached to Judah and was rejected. Their mission was amazingly successful, resulting in the millions of Christians worldwide.
They didn’t disobey Jesus’ Command, by going to who the Jews referred to as Gentiles, because the people who heard the Gospel and who accepted it, plainly were Israelites, the ‘dispersion’, as John 7:35 informs us.

The prophecy of Caiaphas, John 11:50-52, was that; Jesus would die for the nation, in order to gather together the scattered children of God.

Jesus calls us His sheep, because we hear Him. John 10:16 Just as Noah heard God, and just as Abraham heard God. God says that no other people have heard Him but those with the faith of Abraham. He tells us that these are the people He chose... because they heard Him. Deuteronomy 7:6-10

Ephesians 1:4-5 Before the foundation of the world, He chose those who would accept Christ to be His people, to be without blemish in His sight and full of love of Him and their fellow men. It was His good will and pleasure that we Christians are predestined to be adopted as God’s children through Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour.

What else can it mean, but that every person who has understanding and who accepts the Gospel of Jesus, belongs to the true Israel? Grafted into the one Seed, Jesus; but an originally chosen, natural born Christian Israelite. John 15:16, 1 Peter 2:9-10

I never was suggesting I do not hear from Jesus, I do not think I need to be told about it. But there is authority with God's word, and I have need of the Bible to go to it, anything really from Jesus will not be contrary to that. Sometimes we might impose our own will on what we would say is from Jesus.

Those that the Jews were calling gentiles the Bible is also calling gentiles and nothing in the Bible is showing any of those were from the dispersal of Israel. There were people of the dispersal, Jews who were abroad in the world.

Since every nation in the world has been completely genetically mixed, the sheep who hear Jesus' voice are from all the tribes, races, nations and languages. Revelation 7:9
It IS the way to know that we ARE the true Israel, because we DO hear Jesus and as faithful Christians, worship and obey Him.

John 10:1-18 tells us in very specific terms, the nature of the sheep and the shepherd. If we truly match that definition, mind and soul, we have the faith of Abraham in our being.

Isaiah 51:1-2 Listen to Me, all you who follow after righteousness, all who seek the Lord. Consider the Rock from which you are descended. Consider Abraham, your father and Sarah, your mother, when I called him, he was but one; I Blessed him and he is now many.
This is a direct reference to Christians, the true Israelite sons of God. Romans 9:24-26

So what this means, that you are saying, is that it is meaningless as no one is not descended from Israel. I do not buy that at all, there are many people in this world, many have their own descent lines separate from others, and this is understood now. And the covenant relationship is minimalized or dismissed with this, it was something that others could enter into, to being counted with Israel, though not descended from them, such would mix with those of Israel. People can still become Jews, without having descent from them. But with the gospel available, that is not to be desired as it will not profit, while we can have access to Yahweh through Jesus Christ.

The other aspect to this doctrine; is how some people are made for different purposes. Call it predestination, or God the Potter making some ‘vessels’ to be kept and some to be discarded:
Romans 9:21-22 Surely the Potter can do what He likes with the clay? Is He not free to make two vessels out of the same lump, one to be treasured and one for common use?

But if it is indeed God’s purpose to display His retribution and to make His power known, it is that with great patience, He has tolerated vessels that are made for destruction?
Jeremiah 18:1-12

These are Bible truths, therefore it is beholden for us, who have had heard the ‘call of the Lord’ in our hearts, to be very sure to stand strong in our faith at all times and look forward to the great Day when Jesus comes, bringing our rewards with Him. Matthew 16:27

What we as believers are predestined for is to be conformed to the image of Christ, that is our destiny, and the growth we should have would be towards that.

No believers are discarded. But those God knows are remaining contrary to God's will are destined for the destruction. That is not the end, those ones will always remain in misery, for always remaining contrary to God.

Actually one of the best preventions of AIDS, is male circumcision. It is now widely done throughout Africa.
It now has no religious significance at all.

This is not understanding the male circumcision of the covenant, for Israel, which is distinct, it is a religious ritual to continue the process of Israel to be in the covenant relationship, if you were already a circumcised male and went to join with Jewish people, there would still be religious ritual for you, corresponding to that. And in general in most places male circumcision is not really better in most cases, certainly for modern societies.

keras · Jun 11, 2020

FredVB said:
So what this means, that you are saying, is that it is meaningless as no one is not descended from Israel. I do not buy that at all, there are many people in this world, many have their own descent lines separate from others, and this is understood now. And the covenant relationship is minimalized or dismissed with this, it was something that others could enter into, to being counted with Israel, though not descended from them, such would mix with those of Israel. People can still become Jews, without having descent from them. But with the gospel available, that is not to be desired as it will not profit, while we can have access to Yahweh through Jesus Christ.

Just about as confused and mixed up as you can get!
The reality is that ONLY those who accept Jesus and keep the Commandments are His people. John 14:6
ALL the rest, including apostate Jews, are not His people. Quite simple, and to say there are any people on earth today who have a special status with God without accepting Jesus, is false teaching.

FredVB · Jun 13, 2020

keras said:
Just about as confused and mixed up as you can get!
The reality is that ONLY those who accept Jesus and keep the Commandments are His people. John 14:6
ALL the rest, including apostate Jews, are not His people. Quite simple, and to say there are any people on earth today who have a special status with God without accepting Jesus, is false teaching.

The only thing I might be confused about is what you are meaning. I am not confused with my own position. You do know that there were Christian Jews in the beginning, don't you? And there still are now. These are the Jewish believers, they are not apostate. True, believers can be obedient with Yahweh's commandments, others cannot, I see that. But are they? Only those who see they should turn to that obedience. Real repentance is for that. And really being obedient, you will have no other god, just Yahweh, you will not use imagery for Yahweh, you will speak to God and of God only with respect, you will remember the Sabbath and rest with staying in relationship with Yahweh, made possible through Christ, you will respect those who were in parental role to you, you will not hate which leads to kiling, you will not steal, cheat with another, live doing anything dishonestly, nor continue desiring anything belonging to others. You will not use any meat that had blood still in it. You will keep pure from any sexual immortality, you will remember to be helpful to those really poorer than you.

keras · Jun 13, 2020

FredVB said:
You do know that there were Christian Jews in the beginning, don't you? And there still are now. These are the Jewish believers, they are not apostate.

Yes, but they were only a few and today they comprise about .05% of the Jews.

keras said:
The reality is that ONLY those who accept Jesus and keep the Commandments are His people. John 14:6
ALL the rest, including apostate Jews, are not His people. Quite simple, and to say there are any people on earth today who have a special status with God without accepting Jesus, is false teaching.

I stand by this.
The only people of God are those who have accepted Jesus and keep His Commandments NOW.
Remember; God has no favorites. Romans 2:11

FredVB · Jun 15, 2020

FredVB said:
You do know that there were Christian Jews in the beginning, don't you? And there still are now. These are the Jewish believers, they are not apostate.

keras said:
Yes, but they were only a few and today they comprise about .05% of the Jews.
I stand by this.
The only people of God are those who have accepted Jesus and keep His Commandments NOW.
Remember; God has no favorites. Romans 2:11

My point is that from the beginning the only Christian believers were Jewish believers. Gentiles who were believers at first were a new people to include among some congregations of believers when it was understood the gospel of Christ is inclusive for them, without them needing to be Jewish. There would still be some of the commandments for them. Regardless of how many of of those who are Jewish are Christian believers, that there is a Bible passage saying there are those who say they are Jews but they are not does not apply to Jews generally, though we hear some use that passage that way, including antisemites with agendas. There are Jews and there will be more, who are Christian believers and in Christ, real Jews in that sense is not including all gentiles who become believers and don't have to become Jewish. But I observe that many among gentile believers do not even observe obedience for commandments that are for them. So who is claiming to be Jews but are not, then?

True believers can be obedient with Yahweh's commandments, others cannot, I see that. But are they? Only those who see they should turn to that obedience. Real repentance is for that. And really being obedient, you will have no other god, just Yahweh, you will not use imagery for Yahweh, you will speak to God and of God only with respect, you will remember the Sabbath and rest with staying in relationship with Yahweh, made possible through Christ, you will respect those who were in parental role to you, you will not hate which leads to kiling, you will not steal, cheat with another, live doing anything dishonestly, nor continue desiring anything belonging to others. You will not use any meat that had blood still in it. You will keep pure from any sexual immortality, you will remember to be helpful to those really poorer than you.

Prophecies show that a remnant of those who are of Israel (in the land that Israel has and abroad) will remain through times of very great trouble, which I see would not be far off at all, and the time comes that all those of Israel then will be saved, as was said, to mean just that, because the context of that really was about the people of Israel, and it is known anyway that all believers are saved in Christ anyway, and they are people of God with that, which there is no dispute with in this communication.

keras · Jun 15, 2020

FredVB said:
Prophecies show that a remnant of those who are of Israel (in the land that Israel has and abroad) will remain through times of very great trouble, which I see would not be far off at all, and the time comes that all those of Israel then will be saved, as was said, to mean just that, because the context of that really was about the people of Israel, and it is known anyway that all believers are saved in Christ anyway, and they are people of God with that, which there is no dispute with in this communication.

Where you become confused, is in understanding who is the real Israel.
For us Christians, racial origins have no importance whatsoever.
However God does have a mystery, and He will fulfil His Promises to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying the holy Land.

But the true fact is that we Western Christians ARE the descendants of ancient Israel. God has kept this fact hidden and scholars reject or just ignore how our origins from the Caucasus region is the same place as the 10 Northern tribes were exiled to! This is proved by how Jesus was sent to save the lost House of Israel and we demonstrate His success.

Prophesies like Jeremiah 50:4-5 tell of our rejoining with Judah; the remnant of Judah, and ones like Revelation 7:9 show people from every tribe, race, nation and language in Jerusalem, praising their God.

5thKingdom · Jun 15, 2020

keras said:
Where you become confused, is in understanding who is the real Israel.
For us Christians, racial origins have no importance whatsoever.
However God does have a mystery, and He will fulfil His Promises to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying the holy Land.

But the true fact is that we Western Christians ARE the descendants of ancient Israel. God has kept this fact hidden and scholars reject or just ignore how our origins from the Caucasus region is the same place as the 10 Northern tribes were exiled to! This is proved by how Jesus was sent to save the lost House of Israel and we demonstrate His success.

Prophesies like Jeremiah 50:4-5 tell of our rejoining with Judah; the remnant of Judah, and ones like Revelation 7:9 show people from every tribe, race, nation and language in Jerusalem, praising their God.

---------

Are you aware that Jesus specifically NAMED
four separate and distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven"
on earth?

In Mat 22:2 Jesus specifically NAMED the Jewish
"Kingdom of Heaven".

In Mat 13 (in 8 verses) Jesus specifically NAMES
the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven".

In Mat 25:1 Jesus specifically NAMES the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"

Now, I realize this is NEW INFORMATION to most
but please TEST this by seeing who the CONTEXT
of each of these passages represents...
WHO is the subject of the passage?

In Matthew 22:2 it is the Jewish Kingdom
In Matthew 13 it is the Christian Kingdom
In Matthew 25:1-13 it's the Great Tribulation Kingdom

And, of course, Jesus specifically NAMES the
Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew chapters
5 and 7 and 8 and 19.

While the previous "Kingdoms of Heaven" were
(1) temporal
(2) contained BOTH saved and unsaved

The (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" is not temporal
and contains saints from EACH of the previous Kingdoms.
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are included [Mat 8:11] when
they were NOT included in the Christian Kingdom or the
Great Tribulation Kingdom.

For those who have not studied this issue carefully
there is a tendency to think there is no difference
between the "Kingdoms of Heaven" and the
one (1) "Kingdom of God".

The difference is explained below.

--------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33)
times in the Bible and every time the phrase represents
the many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat",
associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom"
(the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth...
or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into
the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".
-------------------------------------------------------------
The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal
Kingdoms... and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of
each, with the "Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins"
living during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
[Mat 25:1]
---------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times
in the Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God
and/or the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat"
who have been regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.
To be clear, the "Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of
the "Kingdom of Heaven" since it only includes the saved
"wheat", not the unsaved "tares".
---------------------------------
Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably
when it focuses only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom.
When focused only on the "wheat", the Bible can use
"Kingdom of Heaven" OR "Kingdom of God". And that
is why we have several parallel passages in the Bible
that can (and do) interchange these two phrases.
-----------------------------------

5thKingdom · Jun 15, 2020

keras said:
Where you become confused, is in understanding who is the real Israel.
For us Christians, racial origins have no importance whatsoever.
However God does have a mystery, and He will fulfil His Promises to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying the holy Land.

But the true fact is that we Western Christians ARE the descendants of ancient Israel. God has kept this fact hidden and scholars reject or just ignore how our origins from the Caucasus region is the same place as the 10 Northern tribes were exiled to! This is proved by how Jesus was sent to save the lost House of Israel and we demonstrate His success.

Prophesies like Jeremiah 50:4-5 tell of our rejoining with Judah; the remnant of Judah, and ones like Revelation 7:9 show people from every tribe, race, nation and language in Jerusalem, praising their God.

--------------

The Great Tribulation (aka the Revelation Beasts)
is a period of two Woes and two Trumpets and
two Beasts... and two "Heads"... so God gives us
several different perspectives of the same EVENTS.

The first Woe/Beast/Trumpet/head was judgment
against the Last Saints (called wise virgins in Rev 25:1-13
.... just another perspective of the Great Trib/Rev Beast)

During the second Woe/Beast/Trumpet/head, God's Judgment
came against the Last "tares" (called the foolish virgins).

Judgement "begins with the House of God"...

-----------------------------------
The CONTEXT of 1 Peter 4:17
------------------------------------

For the time is come that Judgment must BEGIN at
the House of God [both the "wheat and Tares"]:
and if it [God's Judgment] FIRST begin with us
[begins with the saved "wheat"], what shall the end be
of them that obey not the Gospel of God [the unsaved "tares"]
18 And if the righteous [the saved "wheat"] scarcely be saved,
where shall the ungodly and the sinner [the unsaved "tares"]
appear?
-------------------------
The purpose of Daniel's Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
was to (first) bring Judgment on the "Wise Virgins", the Last Saints.
This is shown in 1 Peter 4 as being both the "us" [in verse 17]
and then as "the righteous" [verse 18]. Then, after Judgment
on the Saints is finished, God separates the "wheat and tares"
and brings Judgment on the "Anti-Christ" and "Foolish Virgins"
(the Beast)... which are represented by "them that obey not
the Gospel of God" [in verse 17] and then by "the ungodly
and and the sinner" [in verse 18].
--------------------------
But here is the kicker:
The First Beast (the seventh "Head") is the SAME PERSON
as the Second Beast (the eighth "Head")
--------------------------
Rev_17:11
And the beast that was, [first Beast] and is not,
even he is the eighth, and is of the seven,
and goeth into perdition. [at the END of the Rev. Beast]
-----------------------------
The experiences of the "ten virgins" of Matthew 25:1-13
are the experiences of the "ten kings/horns" of Rev 17 and
the experiences of the "ten kings/horns" of Daniel 7 and the
experiences of the "ten kings" of Daniel 2... and we know
this ABSOLUTELY because (in each case) they are
the people living on earth when the Lord Returns.
---------------------------------
They are the experiences of the LAST "wheat and tares"
on earth before the Lord Returns... The Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] is the same period
as the Revelation Beast(s) and the same period as Daniel's
Fourth Beast and the same period as the REIGN of the
Anti-Christ during Satan's "Little Season"... and the
same experiences of the "ten virgins" in Mat 25:1-13
-----------------------------------
These are the Bible Truths revealed by the Last Saints
during the "Season and Time" [Dan 7:11-12] AFTER
the END of the Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" and BEFORE
the beginning of the (eternal) Third Woe. This is the period
AFTER the end of the Second Woe but BEFORE the start
of the (eternal) Third Woe [Rev 11:14].
-----------------------------------
This is the period AFTER the Beast is cast into the Lake
of Fire [Rev 19:20] and BEFORE Satan and the "Kingdoms
of Man" (physical/political kingdoms or governments)
JOIN THE BEAST in the Lake of Fire [Rev 20:10]
-------------------------------------
This is the period when the Last Saints are commanded
to "prophesy again" as the Seventh Trumpet
"begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]
-----------------------------------------
The LAST SIGN on earth before the Lord's Return is
the Last Saints (wise virgins of the Fourth Kingdom)
preaching NEW INFORMATION which remained "closed-up"
and "sealed" from all previous saints [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]
-----------------------------------------------------
BTW... Daniel 7:11-12 and the "Season and Time"
immediately destroys any interpretation that Daniel's
Four Beasts represent physical/political Kingdoms...
whether that be Babylon/Persia/Greece/Rome or
the European Union, or ANY physical/political empire.
-------------------------------------------------------

FredVB · Jun 19, 2020

keras said:
Where you become confused, is in understanding who is the real Israel.

That is your interpretation, which yet does not have basis shown for your disagreement.

For us Christians, racial origins have no importance whatsoever.

There was no mention of race from that. Maybe you do not understand, people are Jewish through a covenant in the Jewish religion, what others can join. The gospel shows this is not required of the rest of us to come to God, which Christ made available to all people, that it is possible for them. So any of us are not Israel at the start and don't become Israel. Being spiritual Israel is something else, or the qualifying term spiritual would not be used. They do not have to be descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob Israel for that. If it thought that they do have to be, that is racist. Believers are not generally descended from Jacob Israel.

However God does have a mystery, and He will fulfil His Promises to the Patriarchs, of their descendants occupying the holy Land. But the true fact is that we Western Christians ARE the descendants of ancient Israel. God has kept this fact hidden and scholars reject or just ignore how our origins from the Caucasus region is the same place as the 10 Northern tribes were exiled to! This is proved by how Jesus was sent to save the lost House of Israel and we demonstrate His success.
Prophesies like Jeremiah 50:4-5 tell of our rejoining with Judah; the remnant of Judah, and ones like Revelation 7:9 show people from every tribe, race, nation and language in Jerusalem, praising their God.

That is the myth of Anglo-Israelism, which does not have real basis, it is racist, as any people can come to God through Christ, as many do, regardless of descent. The tribes had remnants among the Jews, from the time of the Kingdom of Judah and since the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of Jews since then. Those remaining of other tribes are still Jewish with having the same religion with that covenant, Judaism.

FredVB · Jun 20, 2020

5thKingdom said:
---------
Are you aware that Jesus specifically NAMED four separate and distinct "Kingdoms of Heaven" on earth?
In Mat 22:2 Jesus specifically NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven".
In Mat 13 (in 8 verses) Jesus specifically NAMES the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"..
In Mat 25:1 Jesus specifically NAMES the
Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"
Now, I realize this is NEW INFORMATION to most but please TEST this by seeing who the CONTEXT of each of these passages represents...
WHO is the subject of the passage?
In Matthew 22:2 it is the Jewish Kingdom
In Matthew 13 it is the Christian Kingdom
In Matthew 25:1-13 it's the Great Tribulation Kingdom
And, of course, Jesus specifically NAMES the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew chapters 5 and 7 and 8 and 19.
While the previous "Kingdoms of Heaven" were
(1) temporal
(2) contained BOTH saved and unsaved
The (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" is not temporal and contains saints from EACH of the previous Kingdoms. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are included [Mat 8:11] when they were NOT included in the Christian Kingdom or the Great Tribulation Kingdom. For those who have not studied this issue carefully there is a tendency to think there is no difference between the "Kingdoms of Heaven" and the one (1) "Kingdom of God". The difference is explained below.
--------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" is used thirty-three (33) times in the Bible and every time the phrase represents the many unsaved "tares" and/or the few saved "wheat", associated with preaching the "Word of the Kingdom" (the Gospel) during one of the FOUR KINGDOMS on earth... or it represents ONLY the saved "wheat" harvested into the (5th) Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven".
-------------------------------------------------------------
The four "Kingdoms of Heaven" are physical and temporal Kingdoms... and there's a "harvest" of Saints at the end of each, with the "Final Harvest" including only the "Wise Virgins" living during the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]
---------------------------------------------------------
The phrase "Kingdom of God" is used seventy (70) times in the Bible and every time it represents the Holy Spirit of God and/or the souls (but not the bodies) of the saved "wheat" who have been regenerated by His "indwelling" Holy Spirit.
To be clear, the "Kingdom of God" is a SUBSET of the "Kingdom of Heaven" since it only includes the saved "wheat", not the unsaved "tares".
---------------------------------
Therefore, the Bible can use the phrases interchangeably when it focuses only on the "wheat" within the Kingdom.
When focused only on the "wheat", the Bible can use "Kingdom of Heaven" OR "Kingdom of God". And that is why we have several parallel passages in the Bible that can (and do) interchange these two phrases.
-------------------------------------------------
The Great Tribulation (aka the Revelation Beasts) is a period of two Woes and two Trumpets and two Beasts... and two "Heads"... so God gives us several different perspectives of the same EVENTS.

The first Woe/Beast/Trumpet/head was judgment against the Last Saints (called wise virgins in Rev 25:1-13.... just another perspective of the Great Trib/Rev Beast)

During the second Woe/Beast/Trumpet/head, God's Judgment came against the Last "tares" (called the foolish virgins).
Judgement "begins with the House of God"...
-----------------------------------
The CONTEXT of 1 Peter 4:17
------------------------------------
For the time is come that Judgment must BEGIN at the House of God [both the "wheat and Tares"]:
and if it [God's Judgment] FIRST begin with us [begins with the saved "wheat"], what shall the end be of them that obey not the Gospel of God [the unsaved "tares"]
18 And if the righteous [the saved "wheat"] scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner [the unsaved "tares"]
appear?
-------------------------
The purpose of Daniel's Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] was to (first) bring Judgment on the "Wise Virgins", the Last Saints.
This is shown in 1 Peter 4 as being both the "us" [in verse 17] and then as "the righteous" [verse 18]. Then, after Judgment on the Saints is finished, God separates the "wheat and tares"
and brings Judgment on the "Anti-Christ" and "Foolish Virgins" (the Beast)... which are represented by "them that obey not the Gospel of God" [in verse 17] and then by "the ungodly and and the sinner" [in verse 18].
--------------------------
But here is the kicker:
The First Beast (the seventh "Head") is the SAME PERSON as the Second Beast (the eighth "Head")
--------------------------
Rev_17:11
And the beast that was, [first Beast] and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. [at the END of the Rev. Beast]
-----------------------------
The experiences of the "ten virgins" of Matthew 25:1-13 are the experiences of the "ten kings/horns" of Rev 17 and
the experiences of the "ten kings/horns" of Daniel 7 and the experiences of the "ten kings" of Daniel 2... and we know
this ABSOLUTELY because (in each case) they are the people living on earth when the Lord Returns.
---------------------------------
They are the experiences of the LAST "wheat and tares" on earth before the Lord Returns... The Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1] is the same period as the Revelation Beast(s) and the same period as Daniel's Fourth Beast and the same period as the REIGN of the Anti-Christ during Satan's "Little Season"... and the same experiences of the "ten virgins" in Mat 25:1-13
-----------------------------------
These are the Bible Truths revealed by the Last Saints during the "Season and Time" [Dan 7:11-12] AFTER the END of the Fourth "Kingdom of Heaven" and BEFORE
the beginning of the (eternal) Third Woe. This is the period AFTER the end of the Second Woe but BEFORE the start of the (eternal) Third Woe [Rev 11:14].
-----------------------------------
This is the period AFTER the Beast is cast into the Lake of Fire [Rev 19:20] and BEFORE Satan and the "Kingdoms
of Man" (physical/political kingdoms or governments) JOIN THE BEAST in the Lake of Fire [Rev 20:10]
-------------------------------------
This is the period when the Last Saints are commanded to "prophesy again" as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11]
-----------------------------------------
The LAST SIGN on earth before the Lord's Return is the Last Saints (wise virgins of the Fourth Kingdom) preaching NEW INFORMATION which remained "closed-up" and "sealed" from all previous saints [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-10]
-----------------------------------------------------
BTW... Daniel 7:11-12 and the "Season and Time" immediately destroys any interpretation that Daniel's Four Beasts represent physical/political Kingdoms...
whether that be Babylon/Persia/Greece/Rome or the European Union, or ANY physical/political empire.
-------------------------------------------------------

So you are then saying there is heaven to which unsaved people go to, and, gentile Christians go to a heaven separate from any who are Jewish, and either of those are separate from heaven to which tribulation saints go to. Right? And you say there is judgment to come on believers, for whom Christ bore judgment. So it means Christ did not bear all of the judgment for them, that there is judgment remaining on them? And I ask with meaning believers who I believe are all saved with their coming to Christ with repentance in faith, not others who can pass as being believers.

keras · Jun 20, 2020

FredVB said:
That is the myth of Anglo-Israelism, which does not have real basis, it is racist, as any people can come to God through Christ, as many do, regardless of descent. The tribes had remnants among the Jews, from the time of the Kingdom of Judah and since the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of Jews since then. Those remaining of other tribes are still Jewish with having the same religion with that covenant, Judaism.

Sure anybody can come to God, thru Jesus. That is not what this is about.
It is the fact of the Western Christians having a Caucasian origin.
You can scream 'British Israelitism' as loud as you like, but it doesn't remove the fact of our ancestry from the House of Israel.
The simple proof of this is; it was the Western peoples who accepted the Gospel and who missionized the rest of the world.
We are the people Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24

FredVB · Jun 22, 2020

That is the myth of Anglo-Israelism, which does not have real basis, it is racist, as any people can come to God through Christ, as many do, regardless of descent. The tribes had remnants among the Jews, from the time of the Kingdom of Judah and since the destruction of Jerusalem and the scattering of Jews since then. Those remaining of other tribes are still Jewish with having the same religion with that covenant, Judaism.

keras said:
Sure anybody can come to God, thru Jesus. That is not what this is about.

It is, actually. There is nothing more about who comes to God through Christ.

It is the fact of the Western Christians having a Caucasian origin.
You can scream 'British Israelitism' as loud as you like, but it doesn't remove the fact of our ancestry from the House of Israel.
The simple proof of this is; it was the Western peoples who accepted the Gospel and who missionized the rest of the world.
We are the people Jesus came to save. Matthew 15:24

No. I see you are in New Zealand, here in America there is clearly the issue of racism to deal with, as we have the diversity in this population and Caucasian descent is not to be considered exclusively, and where you are maybe there is not the same circumstance. It is racist trash that there is no communication from the Bible for. God is not willing that any would perish but would have all come to essential repentance. Jesus Christ did not come just for saving one people distinct from others. That Western people received the gospel, which they actually didn't overall, and there are many who do not or who go along with no sincere faith, when it was brought to them by other gentile believers, and the original believers were all Jewish, is no proof of anything, however much you think it is proof for what you believe. There is no real proof of Europeans' descent from Israel, and if Jesus came primarily for anyone he was King of the Jews, as prophesied.

keras · Jun 22, 2020

FredVB said:
It is, actually. There is nothing more about who comes to God through Christ.

I quite agree with what you say.
But you don't address the facts; God does have a secret about the origins of the Western Christian peoples. He knows who and where the descendants of Jacob are. Amos 9:9 There is real proof of our Israelite origins, it can be found in the Bible and in the historical record. Jeremiah 31:21....they marked their way across Europe.

They, we Christians; will take possession of all the holy Land, so as God's promise to the Patriarchs will be fulfilled.
Actually we don't need to be concerned about this at all. It isn't our business.
What we must do is to continue doing our respective tasks until Jesus Returns. Matthew 28:19-20

5thKingdom · Jun 23, 2020

FredVB said:
So you are then saying there is heaven to which unsaved people go to, and, gentile Christians go to a heaven separate from any who are Jewish, and either of those are separate from heaven to which tribulation saints go to. Right? And you say there is judgment to come on believers, for whom Christ bore judgment. So it means Christ did not bear all of the judgment for them, that there is judgment remaining on them? And I ask with meaning believers who I believe are all saved with their coming to Christ with repentance in faith, not others who can pass as being believers.

No... I am not saying anything.

Jesus specifically NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 22:2
Jesus specifically NAMED the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 13 (in 8 verses)
Jesus specifically NAMED the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 25:1
Jesus specifically NAMED the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 5 and 7 and 8 and 19

The ONLY "Kingdom of Heaven" that Jesus did not specifically NAME
is the (1st) Pre-Flood "Kingdom" containing all the Saints from Adam to Noah

There is no condemnation for saved "wheat/sheep"

However the Bible is clear that Judgment BEGINS at the "House of God".
When Satan is "loosened" it is to bring Judgment on the "House of God".

During the 1st Woe or 5th Trumpet or FIRST Revelation Beast
God judges the Last Saints ("wise virgins") in the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"

During the 2nd Woe or 5th Trumpet or SECOND Revelation Beast
God judges the Last "tares" ("foolish virgins") in the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"

Christian Saints and Jewish Saints and Saints from the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom
all rise at the resurrection of the dead when Jesus Returns during the eternal Seventh Trumpet.
note: the Last Saints from the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" are "changed"
in the "twinkling of an eye" AFTER the resurrection [1Co 15]

I THINK I answered all your questions...
Let me know if I did not.

/

FredVB · Jun 25, 2020

FredVB said:
It is, actually. There is nothing more about who comes to God through Christ.

I see you are in New Zealand, here in America there is clearly the issue of racism to deal with, as we have the diversity in this population and Caucasian descent is not to be considered exclusively, and where you are maybe there is not the same circumstance. It is racist trash that there is no communication from the Bible for. God is not willing that any would perish but would have all come to essential repentance. Jesus Christ did not come just for saving one people distinct from others. That Western people received the gospel, which they actually didn't overall, and there are many who do not or who go along with no sincere faith, when it was brought to them by other gentile believers, and the original believers were all Jewish, is no proof of anything, however much you think it is proof for what you believe. There is no real proof of Europeans' descent from Israel, and if Jesus came primarily for anyone he was King of the Jews, as prophesied.

keras said:
I quite agree with what you say.
But you don't address the facts; God does have a secret about the origins of the Western Christian peoples. He knows who and where the descendants of Jacob are. Amos 9:9 There is real proof of our Israelite origins, it can be found in the Bible and in the historical record. Jeremiah 31:21....they marked their way across Europe.

They, we Christians; will take possession of all the holy Land, so as God's promise to the Patriarchs will be fulfilled.
Actually we don't need to be concerned about this at all. It isn't our business.
What we must do is to continue doing our respective tasks until Jesus Returns. Matthew 28:19-20

Then it is personal belief, I cannot agree that there is that secret descent of European people from Israel that just God knows is true, and with that we have no basis to proclaim it to others, indeed. I am aware that there were already the European people in Europe when people of the tribes of Israel were being scattered. And it is the case that there were still descendents of the tribes of Israel among the Jews, counted as Jews with their belief and observance of the covenant, through whom prophecies would yet be fulfilled. We do have our tasks, including those for our responsibilities for this earth.

FredVB said:
So you are then saying there is heaven to which unsaved people go to, and, gentile Christians go to a heaven separate from any who are Jewish, and either of those are separate from heaven to which tribulation saints go to. Right? And you say there is judgment to come on believers, for whom Christ bore judgment. So it means Christ did not bear all of the judgment for them, that there is judgment remaining on them? And I ask with meaning believers who I believe are all saved with their coming to Christ with repentance in faith, not others who can pass as being believers.

5thKingdom said:
No... I am not saying anything.

Jesus specifically NAMED the Jewish "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 22:2.
Jesus specifically NAMED the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 13 (in 8 verses).
Jesus specifically NAMED the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 25:1.
Jesus specifically NAMED the Eternal "Kingdom of Heaven" in Matthew 5 and 7 and 8 and 19.

The ONLY "Kingdom of Heaven" that Jesus did not specifically NAME
is the (1st) Pre-Flood "Kingdom" containing all the Saints from Adam to Noah.

There is no condemnation for saved "wheat/sheep".

However the Bible is clear that Judgment BEGINS at the "House of God".
When Satan is "loosened" it is to bring Judgment on the "House of God".

During the 1st Woe or 5th Trumpet or FIRST Revelation Beast.
God judges the Last Saints ("wise virgins") in the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven".

During the 2nd Woe or 5th Trumpet or SECOND Revelation Beast
God judges the Last "tares" ("foolish virgins") in the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven".

Christian Saints and Jewish Saints and Saints from the (1st) Pre-Flood Kingdom
all rise at the resurrection of the dead when Jesus Returns during the eternal Seventh Trumpet.
note: the Last Saints from the Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven" are "changed"
in the "twinkling of an eye" AFTER the resurrection [1Co 15].

I THINK I answered all your questions...
Let me know if I did not.

Well you were answering. But with still looking at the passages indicated, I see there is nothing conclusive for separate kingdoms of heaven, that you read into those, though the passages are different perspectives, they do not exclude one group from another. Jesus was Jewish in the time when he was just speaking to Jews, and no gentiles were yet believers. So the kingdom of heaven was spoken of with that perspective, with what was relevant to Jewish people, whether they repented following him, the promised Christ, or not. These accounts of the kingdom of heaven would still be inclusive of gentiles when they would become believers with Christ being their Lord. And the tribulation saints are not having a separate kingdom of heaven, still with the account of them, even shown from that account. And I cannot presume how the account from Jesus corresponds to a certain portion in the book of Revelation.

Judgment will come among the people in the church, with their being unbelievers among the believers, and individuals using others there for their own gain. Those repentant believers are not subject to judgment still.

keras · Jun 25, 2020

FredVB said:
I am aware that there were already the European people in Europe when people of the tribes of Israel were being scattered.

Yes there were primitive tribes in Europe, just like there were and still are Indians in America. They were conquered and mostly wiped out.
The simple way to understand God's Plan, is to see who it was that Jesus actually came to save. Matthew 15:24
That some from the Northern tribes of Israel did join Judah, does not mean the bulk who did not, have just disappeared.
We Christians, people who now belong to every race, nation and language; ARE the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him and the Promises of God to Israel belong to us. Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:26-29

FredVB · Jun 27, 2020

keras said:
Yes there were primitive tribes in Europe, just like there were and still are Indians in America. They were conquered and mostly wiped out.
The simple way to understand God's Plan, is to see who it was that Jesus actually came to save. Matthew 15:24
That some from the Northern tribes of Israel did join Judah, does not mean the bulk who did not, have just disappeared.
We Christians, people who now belong to every race, nation and language; ARE the Israelites of God, the Overcomers for Him and the Promises of God to Israel belong to us. Ephesians 3:6, Galatians 3:26-29

There were groups of people in Europe, as elsewhere, who were conquered and mostly wiped out. There were still already the Grecians, the Slavs, the Italics, the Celts, and the Germanics in Europe at the time. There were the tribes of Israel, some of whom were included with the people who became Jews, the rest scattered among people in empires. Some could return and join with the Jews, as I think happened, some descendants just mixed with others and the Israelite heritage was lost with those. Some of the descendants of those could still become Christian, as I guess would have happened, without them being European, as almost none of them were. There were Europeans, and descendants from them, who became Christians, but others among them did not. Some among American Indians became Christians. Some in Africa and those descendants from Africa became Christians. Some in Asia and those descendants from Asia, became Christians. Some native people in Australia and those from Australia became Christians. When you claim we Christians are descendants from Israel because we are descendants from Europeans, that comes across as racist, as it is not acknowledging that many, very many, Christian believers are not of European descent nor of Israelite descent. They have no less claim to promises to Christian believers. These are not all the same things promised to the people of Israel, there will be the remnant from them who will all believe, and be the Israel of prophecy with Christ among them, being witness to the rest of the world.

keras · Jun 27, 2020

No need to give me a lecture on racism!

The Bible is clear; Christians come from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10
What I am trying to convey, is that in order to fulfil God's promises to the Patriarchs, the majority have to be actual descendants of Jacob. Which we Western peoples are.

What is your reason for denying the provable fact of our origin?

FredVB · Jun 29, 2020

keras said:
No need to give me a lecture on racism!
The Bible is clear; Christians come from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10
What I am trying to convey, is that in order to fulfil God's promises to the Patriarchs, the majority have to be actual descendants of Jacob. Which we Western peoples are.
What is your reason for denying the provable fact of our origin?

But the majority of Christian believers are not descendants of Jacob Israel, nor are they descendants of Europeans. And what proven fact of European people coming from tribes of Israel is there? I have not seen it.

keras · Jun 29, 2020

FredVB said:
But the majority of Christian believers are not descendants of Jacob Israel, nor are they descendants of Europeans. And what proven fact of European people coming from tribes of Israel is there? I have not seen it.

But God does know who and where they are, Amos 9:8-9. It is His secret, that is why scholars trace the Western people origins back to the Caucasus and stop there.
The Bible and archeology prove it Jeremiah 31:21 say how the Israelites left way marks. They are still seen today; the many dolmens across Europe.

We Christians are the Spiritual descendants of Abraham, by our faith in God, Galatians 3:26-29, but the majority are also his actual descendants, thru the line of inheritance, Isaac, Jacob, and all of Jacobs sons.
I believe that at least one tribe went East and the Christians of South Korea represent it.

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