Futurist Only Prophecy to be fulfilled.

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5thKingdom

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There will be a golden age of the thousand year rule of King Jesus. That is proven scripture. Revelation 20
I do not and have never promoted Jewish redemption. Many prophesies tell of their virtual demise and only a remnant will survive.

You need to keep you posts shorter and confined to one subject, as it is evident that you confuse who you are talking to and what they believe.

I have proved that the Last Trump must happen to raise the dead or the GWT Judgment. After the next 1000 years.
The Seventh Trumpet does not do that.


Rev. 20 is talking about the church age... when the Saints "live and reign with Christ"

Mat 28:18-19
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the
end of the world. Amen.

AFTER the end of the Great Commission the Two Witnesses (the church)
is "killed" for 3.5 days which is also shown as 3.5 times and 3.5 years
and 3.5 watches of the night... all representing the Revelation Beast
and/or Daniel's Fourth Beast and/or the Great Tribulation and/or
the REIGN of the Antichrist over the "ten virgins"

So we have about TWO DOZEN passages talking about the END
of the Great Commission being the START of the Revelation Beast
and you have ONE passage talking about 1000 years...

Gee... I wonder WHICH position has more Biblical support?
Is that why the early church was Amillennial and most the
Reformers were Amillennial? Could be.

.
 
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keras

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Rev. 20 is talking about the church age... when the Saints "live and reign with Christ"
The Church age is now.
Soon to come will be the Kingdom age.
But before Jesus comes, the world will be dramatically changed and for the final 3 1/2 years, a man who will claim to be God will control the world. Rev 13:1-8
 
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5thKingdom

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The Church age is now.
Soon to come will be the Kingdom age.
But before Jesus comes, the world will be dramatically changed and for the final 3 1/2 years, a man who will claim to be God will control the world. Rev 13:1-8


No, the church age ended when the fifth Trumpet sounded and the 1st Woe began
and the "ten virgins" (aka the ten "kings/horns") followed the Antichrist into the
Great Tribulation "kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

But I am curious how someone who does not even know about
the "Kingdoms of Heaven" on earth could ever think he knows
about the EVENTS in those Kingdoms?

.
 
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5thKingdom

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No, the church age ended when the fifth Trumpet sounded and the 1st Woe began
and the "ten virgins" (aka the ten "kings/horns") followed the Antichrist into the
Great Tribulation "kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1]

But I am curious how someone who does not even know about
the "Kingdoms of Heaven" on earth could ever think he knows
about the EVENTS in those Kingdoms?

.


No, the church age ended when the testimony of the Two Witnesses ended
and Satan was loosened from the Pit... you just never "saw" those events.

Daniel 12:8-10 PROMISES the Last Saints "shall understand".
Matthew 24:15,33 PROMISES the Last Saints "shall see ALL these things".
God NEVER promised the apostate churches or those OUTSIDE the churches
would be able to "see" the events of the GT or Rev Beast. To all of them
He comes like a thief in the night.

If the Jews and Buddhists and Hindus and Atheists and Agnostics
and Humanist and Pagans and Satanists were able to "see" (physical) signs...
then He could not come as a thief for them... but He PROMISES He will.
Solve that riddle Batman.


Mat 24:37-40
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying
and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not
until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


.
 
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Timtofly

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Rev. 20 is talking about the church age... when the Saints "live and reign with Christ"

Mat 28:18-19
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have
commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the
end of the world. Amen.

AFTER the end of the Great Commission the Two Witnesses (the church)
is "killed" for 3.5 days which is also shown as 3.5 times and 3.5 years
and 3.5 watches of the night... all representing the Revelation Beast
and/or Daniel's Fourth Beast and/or the Great Tribulation and/or
the REIGN of the Antichrist over the "ten virgins"

So we have about TWO DOZEN passages talking about the END
of the Great Commission being the START of the Revelation Beast
and you have ONE passage talking about 1000 years...

Gee... I wonder WHICH position has more Biblical support?
Is that why the early church was Amillennial and most the
Reformers were Amillennial? Could be.

.
Is millennial plural? There have been two. The only thing it is now is asymbolism. No where in the NT is found the term amillennial. The Reformers of the Reformation could have taught and believed anything, they were in the middle of a millennium. No one of their day could prove them wrong. The only event that will prove amillennials wrong is the opening of the 6th seal. Then they will just have to sit around and endure the next 1000+ years. Hopefully they all, at least, heed the endurance warning.
 
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Timtofly

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No, the church age ended when the testimony of the Two Witnesses ended
and Satan was loosened from the Pit... you just never "saw" those events.

Daniel 12:8-10 PROMISES the Last Saints "shall understand".
Matthew 24:15,33 PROMISES the Last Saints "shall see ALL these things".
God NEVER promised the apostate churches or those OUTSIDE the churches
would be able to "see" the events of the GT or Rev Beast. To all of them
He comes like a thief in the night.
If the Jews and Buddhists and Hindus and Atheists and Agnostics
and Humanist and Pagans and Satanists were able to "see" (physical) signs...
then He could not come as a thief for them... but He PROMISES He will.
Solve that riddle Batman.
Mat 24:37-40
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying
and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not
until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
What does it mean when you refute yourself?
 
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5thKingdom

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What rubbish! There is no way that we are now halfway thru Revelation.
The Church age continues today and will end at the glorious Return of Jesus.

It means that person is an incompetent fool and should not be peddling their weird beliefs here or anywhere.


(1) Jesus spoke of a NIGHT in which no man could "work".
That was during the Great Tribulation or Revelation Beast.

Jesus had all power and authority during the Great Commission.
[Mat 28:18-20] however AFTER the Great Commission is finished...
AFTER the "testimony" of the Two Witnesses is finished... then it becomes
the NIGHT when Satan is released and his chief emissary on earth, the MAN
known as the Antichrist are given POWER and Seat [rule] and AUTHORITY as
they go after the Last Saints on earth.

Rev 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the
feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon [Satan]
gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.


Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with
the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God,
and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



The question is NOT whether the church continues today... we can see
a church on every street corner. However we can see a Jewish church
(Temple) on those street corners also and we KNOW the Holy Spirit
was TAKEN from them a very long time ago.


Mat 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be TAKEN from you,
and GIVEN to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.


Mat 21:45
And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,
they perceived that he spake of them.


We know 2 Thess teaches the Man of Sin could not be "sitting" [ruling]
in the "Temple" [Body of Christ] until AFTER the restraining Holy Spirit
had been taken out of the way. Likewise Daniel's Abomination could
not be "standing" [ruling] in the "Holy Place" [Body of Believers] until
after the Holy Spirit was taken out of the way. The Great Tribulation
or the Revelation Beast could not begin until all the elect were "sealed"
[saved] only then could the Holy Spirit be taken out of the way. And
Satan be allowed to RULE during the Revelation Beast/Great Trib.


Rev 7:2
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the
living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it
was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth,
neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants
of our God in their foreheads.



I hope you do not think the sea and trees represent oceans and plants,
they represent the PEOPLE who are the Last Saints... who must be
"sealed" [saved] before the Revelation Beast/Great Tribulation could
begin. Again we get back to the reality that the Holy Spirit which
restrains could not be "taken out of the way" until AFTER all of the
elect are saved.


So, just because we see Jewish churches (Temples) on the corners
does NOT mean they still have the Holy Spirit. Likewise, just because
we see Christian churches on the corner does NOT mean that they have
the Holy Spirit... in fact we could make a solid argument that there are
many apostate churches that show by their "fruit" they lost the Holy
Spirit a long time ago.


Now YOU SAY:
What rubbish! There is no way that we are now halfway thru Revelation.
The Church age continues today and will end at the glorious Return of Jesus.



And I ask you... how do you know?
Can you tell which church (if any) still has the Holy Spirit? (No you cannot)
So you cannot show any evidence the Church Age continues today.

We KNOW ABSOLUTELY that the Great Commission (or the Church Age)
ends at some time... because (a) the testimony of the Two Witnesses ends
BEFORE Satan is loosened to "overcome" them and "kill" them. and (b) the
Last Saints are ruled by the Antichrist during the 3.5 "times" or 3.5 "days' or
3.5 years (42 mos) or 3.5 "watches of the night"... so the ONLY QUESTION
is WHEN did/does the Church Age end? And the 3.5 "times" begin?


Dan 7:24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise:
and another [Little Horn] shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse
from the first [ten horns], and he shall subdue three kings.[Last Saints]
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out
the saints of the most High,
and think to change times and laws: and
they [the ten "horns/kings] shall be given into his hand until a time
and times and the dividing of time.



Rev 17:12
And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received
no kingdom as yet [during the Great Commission]; but receive power as kings
one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and
strength unto the beast.



Rev 17:17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and
give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.



You SAY
The Church age continues today and will end at the glorious Return of Jesus.



But I have already PROVEN that to be untrue FROM SCRIPTURE...
I have already shown that the Church Age END with the testimony of the
Two Witnesses ENDS and when the Last Saints are SEALED. That it is not a matter
of IF the Great Commission ENDS... it is only a matter of WHEN it ENDS. So your
theory has already been refuted by Scripture.


You say
There is no way that we are now halfway thru Revelation.


Of course the question is: How would you know?
I have asked you repeatedly to show me the CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation...
and you refuse to do so. So now I will show you the CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation.
It is the period when the Last Saints are attacked by Satan... rather, they are "overcome"
by Satan and his Antichrist. This is not talking about nominal "Christians", this is talking
about the LAST SAINTS on earth.


We have already shown (above) that the Last Saints are given into the hand of the
Antichrist [Dan 7:24-25]. That is the CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation. We have

already shown (above) the Last Saints give their "power and strength to the Beast"
and they "agree to give their Kingdom to the Beast" [Rev 17:12-13 and 17:17]
that is the CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation. We have already seen (above) that

Satan attacks those who "keep the Commandments of God and have the testimony
of Jesus Christ" [Rev 12:17]. That is the CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation. Read

those verses AGAIN because they give you the CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation.


And we see (below) that the CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation is EXCLUSIVELY

the "ten virgins" (also shown as the "ten kings" and the "ten horns"] that follow
the Antichrist OUT of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" and INTO the Great Tribulation
"Kingdom of Heaven" [Mat 25:1-13]


Mat 25:1
Then [at that time] shall the [Fourth or Great Tribulation] "Kingdom of Heaven"
be likened unto [look like] TEN VIRGINS [also called the ten "Kings" and the ten "Horns"]
which took their lamps [took their Gospels] and went forth [from the (3rd) Christian
"Kingdom of Heaven" into the (4th) Great Tribulation "Kingdom of Heaven"]
to meet the Bridegroom [to meet the Returning Lord Jesus Christ]


So you claim it is "rubbish" to think the Great Tribulation has begun (or is over) and yet
you not only do not offer SCRIPTURE to support your theory... you do not even admit
that there is a time when the Holy Spirit (which restraineth) is removed, and you do not
even admit there is a time when the "testimony" of the Two Witnesses (Great Commission)
is FINISHED. So all you have to support your theory is the fact that you can say "rubbish".
That, my friend is about as weak a case that anyone can make.


Moreover, the Bible PROMISES the Last Saints "shall understand" Daniel's prophecies which
remain "closed-up" and "sealed" from all previous saints [Dan 12:4 and 12:8-12] and we are
now revealing those mysteries. Jesus PROMISED the Last Saints "shall see ALL THESE things" about fulfillment of all GT prophecies [Mat 24:15 and 24:33] and we are now revealing all of
those mysteries. And God PROMISED the Last Saints would preach about these mysteries
as the Seventh Trumpet "begins to sound" [Rev 10:7-11], and we are now preaching those
those Biblical mysteries.


So you, the person who does NOT (a) understand the different "Kingdoms of Heaven" and
the person who (b) does not understand Daniel's prophecies and the person who (c) does not
understand the fulfillment of GT prophecies and the person who (d) does not even know the
CONTEXT of the Great Tribulation and (e) the person who is not preaching these mysteries...
wants to base your case on saying the word "rubbish". You cannot present a weaker case.



Now... I am not hiding. I am right here revealing Biblical mysteries never known before.
If you want to REFUTE something I have said (from Scripture) you need only state what
doctrine you dispute and provide SCRIPTURES to refute me... but saying "rubbish" means
LESS than nothing - and (because I know your history) presenting OT Scriptures that do
not apply to the Great Tribulation or the "Season and Time" on earth AFTER that period,
also does not refute anything.


You have every opportunity to provide SCRIPTURE to refute me... and, in fact, that is the
DUTY of every Saint who hear false doctrines... but I receive SILENCE from you and others
who want to pretend that DENIAL of doctrines is the same as REFUTING doctrines. They
are not even close to the same. You saying "rubbish" does not REFUTE a single word...
it is just a state of DENIAL.


So, here I am people... I have started several threads... NOBODY refutes a word.
I have written very long posts... NOBODY refutes a word... all I hear is DENIAL.
I invite you (and any other) to REFUTE me with Scripture. I am waiting for
someone to step forth. Yet all I hear is silence and words like "rubbish".
If that is the best you can do, if that is all you will do, then Bible
prophecy about the "dominion" of the Last Saints is fulfilled.


Jim
.
 
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Timtofly

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It means that person is an incompetent fool and should not be peddling their weird beliefs here or anywhere.
It is dispensationalism with a new outline. Not many people can stomach dispensationalist. Getting bogged down in the past is harder to defend than strict futurist thought. Yet some amil try to map out the past in different ways. No one even wants to hear that God put 1000 perfect years before Adam's 6000 years of punishment. Now that we get 1000 years of glory, they still only want the 6000 years of punishment. That would be my dispensational view. Historically though the Nations got 1500+1000 perfect years, before the Flood, and 1100 after. The nation under the Law, only had 1400 years. The church only had about 1990 years. So the 6000 years is not equal dispensations. Nor does it seem this 4 kingdom breakdown has many defined limits. I think I will just stick with the 3 types Jesus taught. The world, His people, and His body. His body is called out from the other two. His people were called out of the world. The world was called out in Adam and placed in the Garden, up until Adam disobeyed, which was only about 30 years. God just never really told any one the exact timing of His plan. It was just History, to unfold.
 
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St. Helens

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