Can sin make reading the Bible blurry?

JohnB445

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2018
1,374
922
Illinois
✟176,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
not in a physical sense. God is the revealer of all things.

Why would God reveal things in the Bible to someone who is willfully sinning and being disobedient, other than revealing the sin the person is committing?

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is it real?
 

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,184
1,809
✟825,826.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
not in a physical sense. God is the revealer of all things.

Why would God reveal things in the Bible to someone who is willfully sinning and being disobedient, other than revealing the sin the person is committing?

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is it real?
The Bible is all truth, so sometimes a person can find that truth without the Spirit's help, but I need lots of help.
 
Upvote 0

Sabertooth

Repartee Animal: Quipping the Saints!
Site Supporter
Jul 25, 2005
10,509
7,068
62
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟961,395.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Can sin make reading the Bible blurry?
It depends on which way you mean "sin."
  • If you mean "having never been Born-Again," yes.
    Jesus said,
    Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot [even] see the kingdom of God.” John 3:3 NKJV
  • If you mean after you are Born-Again, said sin will be the "elephant in the room," until you deal with it appropriately [1 John 1:9].
 
Upvote 0

chevyontheriver

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 29, 2015
19,317
16,154
Flyoverland
✟1,237,972.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-American-Solidarity
not in a physical sense. God is the revealer of all things.

Why would God reveal things in the Bible to someone who is willfully sinning and being disobedient, other than revealing the sin the person is committing?

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is it real?
Well, sin does make one stupid.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,810
5,656
Utah
✟722,019.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
not in a physical sense. God is the revealer of all things.

Why would God reveal things in the Bible to someone who is willfully sinning and being disobedient, other than revealing the sin the person is committing?

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is it real?

He does both.
 
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,285
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,630.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
not in a physical sense. God is the revealer of all things.

Why would God reveal things in the Bible to someone who is willfully sinning and being disobedient, other than revealing the sin the person is committing?

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is it real?
Unconfessed sin shuts God out of our lives. Generally speaking, God will reveal nothing new until the last thing He showed you is reality in your experience. It's as if you walk down a passageway and come to a door. It's locked and the door is too robust to knock down. The key is to obey God on the issue He is speaking about. Maybe you have a dispute with another Christian. God may want you to humble yourself and apologise, even if you are not entirely to blame. The door only opens when you obey. I know a single mother whose life has fallen apart because she will not let go of her idolatrous attachment to her daughter. God has something wonderful in store for her, but she will not repent. So she misses out.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Sabertooth
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,891
Pacific Northwest
✟732,309.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
not in a physical sense. God is the revealer of all things.

Why would God reveal things in the Bible to someone who is willfully sinning and being disobedient, other than revealing the sin the person is committing?

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is it real?

Why do you believe God reveals things to people reading the Bible in the first place?

This seems to suggest that the Bible is some kind of code and that to understand it requires special enlightenment from God, and that this is something individuals experience.

That's just not what the Bible is in the first place, or representative of the Christian relationship to the Scriptures.

God isn't going to put the meaning of the Bible into your head like some light from heaven. The meaning of Scripture may not always be clear, because we don't always have all the information; but the meaning of the text isn't found by some special illumination, but through engaging with the best scholarship, utilizing the tools of exegesis, and by reading and hearing the Scriptures within the context of the historic Church.

What someone living obstinately and refusing repentance is doing is deafening their ears to the word they already know.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

disciple Clint

Well-Known Member
Mar 26, 2018
15,258
5,991
Pacific Northwest
✟208,189.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
not in a physical sense. God is the revealer of all things.

Why would God reveal things in the Bible to someone who is willfully sinning and being disobedient, other than revealing the sin the person is committing?

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is it real?
If your relationship with God is impaired due to unrepentant sin you are not going to be as open to the Holy Spirit as you should be.
 
Upvote 0

Gregory Thompson

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.
Site Supporter
Dec 20, 2009
28,369
7,745
Canada
✟722,927.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Married
not in a physical sense. God is the revealer of all things.

Why would God reveal things in the Bible to someone who is willfully sinning and being disobedient, other than revealing the sin the person is committing?

Do you have any experience with this situation? Is it real?
"7 For the mystery of lawlessness doth already work: only [there is] one that restraineth now, until he be taken out of the way.

8 And then shall be revealed the lawless one, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming; 9 [even he], whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness for them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God sendeth them a working of error, that they should believe a lie: 12 that they all might be judged who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:7-11)

See also 2 Thessalonians 2:11 For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, for parallel translations that says God sends a strong delusion so they will believe a lie.

The thought that comes to mind is when reading the bible, there's this tendency to "ask God what it means" and then "ask again and again and again" until the answer sounds right.

This may qualify as not loving the truth, and result in the confusion we see today.

What is the correct interpretation? Does it exist? Who can say? Who has removed the law of sin from their members completely, and only loves the truth?

Is our understanding of truth boolean? or is it as the sayings of Jesus describes truth? Do we love this truth so much that we actually put this into practice in our inner beings?

Jesus said, I am the truth, the truth will set you free, and to the Father thy word is truth.

You may very well assert intellectually that the words of God are true, but does this understanding set you free? Does this understanding applied make you like Jesus in this world? (I am)
 
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,285
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,630.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
Why do you believe God reveals things to people reading the Bible in the first place?

This seems to suggest that the Bible is some kind of code and that to understand it requires special enlightenment from God, and that this is something individuals experience.

That's just not what the Bible is in the first place, or representative of the Christian relationship to the Scriptures.

God isn't going to put the meaning of the Bible into your head like some light from heaven. The meaning of Scripture may not always be clear, because we don't always have all the information; but the meaning of the text isn't found by some special illumination, but through engaging with the best scholarship, utilizing the tools of exegesis, and by reading and hearing the Scriptures within the context of the historic Church.

What someone living obstinately and refusing repentance is doing is deafening their ears to the word they already know.

-CryptoLutheran
I disagree. Lord Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to lead us into the Truth. Paul prayed that believers would receive the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation. Revelation is given to the spirit of the Christian, not the mind. The intellectual approach has led to tens of thousands of denominations, way too much argument and disputation, ending up in unhelpful divisions. Christians can't even agree on what version of the Bible to read. The Bible is a spiritual book for spiritual people. It is not the sole domain of academics and scholars.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,891
Pacific Northwest
✟732,309.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
I disagree. Lord Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to lead us into the Truth. Paul prayed that believers would receive the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation. Revelation is given to the spirit of the Christian, not the mind. The intellectual approach has led to tens of thousands of denominations, way too much argument and disputation, ending up in unhelpful divisions. Christians can't even agree on what version of the Bible to read. The Bible is a spiritual book for spiritual people. It is not the sole domain of academics and scholars.

And the "God gave me the truth" people haven't added to the divisions in Christendom?

Okay, let's try this thought experiment, you're a Christian living in the year 200, how do you think you experience and encounter God's word, how do you experience the Scriptures as a Christian in 200 AD?

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

Aussie Pete

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 14, 2019
9,081
8,285
Frankston
Visit site
✟727,630.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Divorced
And the "God gave me the truth" people haven't added to the divisions in Christendom?

Okay, let's try this thought experiment, you're a Christian living in the year 200, how do you think you experience and encounter God's word, how do you experience the Scriptures as a Christian in 200 AD?

-CryptoLutheran
Divisions in Christianity are mostly pointless arguments over doctrines that have little to do with things that matter. Who knows for sure about the rapture? I my thoughts. I'm not going to start a denomination over it. Has no one ever thought of agreeing to disagree? It seems at least 30,000 could not accept that idea.

In the year 200, I have some scripture but not all of it has been assembled into the Bible as we have it now. Certain writings are beginning to be accepted as inspired. I need the guidance of the Holy Spirit in all things. Funnily enough, that works for me now. There are spiritual men that preach and teach things that are edifying and encouraging. And that is true now. Apart from the fact that the Bible has been mostly agreed to (some accept the apocrypha, I do not), I don't see much difference between 200 and 2000 AD.
 
Upvote 0

Semper-Fi

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 26, 2019
1,801
761
63
Pacific north west
✟406,763.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
29The Lord is far from the wicked:
but he heareth the prayer of the righteous.

2But your [iniquities] have separated between
you and your God, and your sins have hid his
face from you, that he will not hear.

31Now we know that God heareth not [sinners]: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.

12For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that [do evil].
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,891
Pacific Northwest
✟732,309.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
Divisions in Christianity are mostly pointless arguments over doctrines that have little to do with things that matter. Who knows for sure about the rapture? I my thoughts. I'm not going to start a denomination over it. Has no one ever thought of agreeing to disagree? It seems at least 30,000 could not accept that idea.

In the year 200, I have some scripture but not all of it has been assembled into the Bible as we have it now. Certain writings are beginning to be accepted as inspired. I need the guidance of the Holy Spirit in all things. Funnily enough, that works for me now. There are spiritual men that preach and teach things that are edifying and encouraging. And that is true now. Apart from the fact that the Bible has been mostly agreed to (some accept the apocrypha, I do not), I don't see much difference between 200 and 2000 AD.

Today you can read Scripture for yourself.
In 200 AD you couldn't. Not because it was being hidden from you, but because there was no printing press.

That's what I was trying to get at. In 200 AD you would have to rely on your community, your church, you'd have to rely on the hearing of Scripture read in the course of the liturgy.

You had to rely on those trained in Scripture and in Christian teaching to deposit Christian truth to you, as an individual.

This idea that the individual has a direct line of access to God, and the Holy Spirit just dumps revelations and truth into us individually is an idea that is thoroughly foreign to Christianity.

Jesus didn't say the Holy Spirit will lead you, Aussie Pete, to all truth. No, Jesus was speaking to His Apostles specifically, and the Church as a whole broadly. It's not that you, the individual, will be given special divine insights by the Holy Spirit; but that you, as a member of the Body of Christ, can trust upon the word of God that has been entrusted to the Apostles and confessed since the beginning--that what has been given from the beginning is true.

So you, reading the Bible, will not have the Holy Spirit reveal special things to you; instead you having the modern day luxury of being able to read the printed word have unprecedented access to the reading of Scripture which Christians in the past would never have even imagined as even possible. And so you have a responsibility not to misuse this opportunity by turning this way or that way, thinking you have more truth than what has already been given; but instead to be humble and listen to what has been said down through the ages, to take advantage of the great amount of scholarship and academic work that has been accomplished over two thousand years of history, to take these sacred words you read with the utmost seriousness they deserve.

You do not read the Bible alone, you read the Bible surrounded by the great cloud of witnesses.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0

ViaCrucis

Confessional Lutheran
Oct 2, 2011
37,462
26,891
Pacific Northwest
✟732,309.00
Country
United States
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Others
"Can sin make reading the Bible blurry?"

Yes.

"For now we see in a mirror dimly
, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I shall know fully just as I also have been fully known."

But that has more to do with our inability to comprehend the future things of God this side of the Eschaton. Our "vision" of things is blurry at present because "no eye has seen and no ear has heard", and so it isn't until the consummation and conclusion of all things that we shall see with clear vision all that there is to be seen.

-CryptoLutheran
 
Upvote 0