AD 70 to AD 622 – prophecy unfolding?

Douggg said:

Being a Jew is not based on the extended family tree, but if one's mother is a Jew.

Everyone, as I pointed out, are descended from Noah; so using your criteria no-one is a what you are calling a "pure blooded Jew" (a non-biblical term).

Also, in a family tree, it is like an upside down triangle. For example, your mother and father, each had a mother and father, so that is doubling right there, from 2 to 4. That number keeps expanding exponentially, as everyone each have their own mother and father, the further back one goes.

The genealogies in the Matthew and Luke, each trace only one path, in an astronomical number of paths, in that triangle. Matthew goes back to Abraham. Luke goes back to Adam (first human), and God his creator.

Click to expand...

No disagreement.

Further confirmation that Mary was of mixed, almost certainly predominantly Gentile, blood.

jgr said:

No disagreement.

Further confirmation that Mary was of mixed, almost certainly predominantly Gentile, blood.

Click to expand...

Being a Jew doesn't go by an extended family tree ancestry, unless you are going to trace the mothers only, all the way back to the wives of 12 sons of Jacob, by which the twelve "tribes" were founded.

Whether a person is a Jew or not, only goes back one level; which the determining factor is whether the person's mother is a Jew.

Jesus was a Jew, because his mother was a Jew. Mary, in turn, was a Jew because her mother was a Jew.

Douggg said:

Being a Jew doesn't go by an extended family tree ancestry, unless you are going to trace the mothers only, all the way back to the wives of 12 sons of Jacob, by which the twelve "tribes" were founded.

Whether a person is a Jew or not, only goes back one level; which the determining factor is whether the person's mother is a Jew.

Jesus was a Jew, because his mother was a Jew. Mary, in turn, was a Jew because her mother was a Jew.

Click to expand...

Scripture?

jgr said:

Scripture?

Click to expand...

The wives of the men of tribes of Israel, birthed the children.

First, the men (and the women) of Israel were not to marry anyone apart from the 12 tribes.
Deuteronomy 7:3

Solomon did what he was not supposed to do, by marrying foreign women, and had concubines. None of the children, Solomon had by those women (over 700), are listed in the bible, except for Naamah the Ammorite (2Chronicles 12:13), mother of Rehoboam, Solomon's son, who the kingdom of Israel broke up under his rule.

1Kings11:2

Disobeying the commandment not marry outside of the 12 tribes, Solomon's actions resulted in Israel worshiping foreign gods; and later Israel went into in the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities because they had turned to other gods.

Upon the return from Babylon captivity, Ezra was shocked to see the caretakers Jews had
continued Solomon's practice. And Ezra shamed them to send away their foreign wives.

Ezra 10:10-11.

So that is the background of a person is a Jew, if their mother is a Jew; and not if the mother is someone outside of the 12 tribes.

Douggg said:

Hi Marilyn,

I did not say or imply that you said Jesus was a gentile. I wrote that to be the messiah, the Christ, Jesus had to be a Jew. And that the another (Jew) coming in his own name to be accepted by modern Jews as the (perceived) messiah, King of Israel, the Antichrist has to be a Jew.

No confirming a peace treaty for 7 years is in the bible. What is in the bible is confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years, Deuteronomy 31:9-13.


I don't know why you would think a Jew could not become the leader of the EU, as the little horn person. However, you could show that the legs of iron rulers were the Caesars, if you linked it to Revelation 17:10, those 7 kings. Which I do. and the little horn person be descended from them, but also be a Jew.

Click to expand...

As God is judging the GENTILES then it is the GENTILES that He is judging.

Those 7 kings/leaders are the leaders of our Global Government. At the moment there is a rotation of 5, but when that is finished, (5 have fallen) then the 6th will come and finally the A/C will be the last leader of our present Gentile Global government.

jgr said:

Paul disagrees.

Romans 2
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Nothing to do with physical DNA (outwardly), and everything to do with spiritual DNA (inwardly).

Click to expand...

You are in the wrong time zone. Once the Body of Christ (Jew & Gentile) are gone then there is left Israel & the Gentile nations. God still has purposes for them too.

Douggg said:

The wives of the men of tribes of Israel, birthed the children.

First, the men (and the women) of Israel were not to marry anyone apart from the 12 tribes.
Deuteronomy 7:3

Solomon did what he was not supposed to do, by marrying foreign women, and had concubines. None of the children, Solomon had by those women (over 700), are listed in the bible, except for Naamah the Ammorite (2Chronicles 12:13), mother of Rehoboam, Solomon's son, who the kingdom of Israel broke up under his rule.

1Kings11:2

Disobeying the commandment not marry outside of the 12 tribes, Solomon's actions resulted in Israel worshiping foreign gods; and later Israel went into in the Assyrian and Babylonian captivities because they had turned to other gods.

Upon the return from Babylon captivity, Ezra was shocked to see the caretakers Jews had
continued Solomon's practice. And Ezra shamed them to send away their foreign wives.

Ezra 10:10-11.

So that is the background of a person is a Jew, if their mother is a Jew; and not if the mother is someone outside of the 12 tribes.

Click to expand...

Jews have always recognized proselytes, both male and female, as fully Jewish.

There is no Scripture or Jewish doctrine to be found which excludes a female proselyte from full recognition as a Jewish mother if she bears offspring.

Furthermore, matrilineality is found nowhere in Scripture. The Jews of Jesus' day proclaimed their Jewishness patrilineally exclusively:

Matthew 3
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

John 8
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
53 Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself?

Marilyn C said:

You are in the wrong time zone. Once the Body of Christ (Jew & Gentile) are gone then there is left Israel & the Gentile nations. God still has purposes for them too.

Click to expand...

I'm in Paul's time zone.

Is he in the wrong time zone?

jgr said:

I'm in Paul's time zone.

Is he in the wrong time zone?

Click to expand...

There is time before the Body of Christ and time after. WE are not the centre of God`s purposes, Christ is.

Marilyn C said:

There is time before the Body of Christ and time after. WE are not the centre of God`s purposes, Christ is.

Click to expand...

Yes, He absolutely is.

Paul was addressing the Body of Christ in Rome.

His whole life was dedicated to declaring God's purposes in Christ.

Romans 2:28,29 is such a declaration.

jgr said:

Yes, He absolutely is.

Paul was addressing the Body of Christ in Rome.

His whole life was dedicated to declaring God's purposes in Christ.

Romans 2:28,29 is such a declaration.

Click to expand...

Yes so we agree on that.

Marilyn C said:

Those 7 kings/leaders are the leaders of our Global Government. At the moment there is a rotation of 5, but when that is finished, (5 have fallen) then the 6th will come and finally the A/C will be the last leader of our present Gentile Global government.

Click to expand...

Hi Marilyn,

The five kings had already fallen by the time John was given the vision. The 6th king was ruling at the time of John.

The 7th was yet to come of John's time.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

jgr said:

Furthermore, matrilineality is found nowhere in Scripture.

Click to expand...

That's what I said. There is no genealogy in the bible that traces the mothers.

The Jews of Jesus' day proclaimed their Jewishness patrilineally exclusively:

Click to expand...

Jesus's Father was God. Are you claiming God the Father was a Jew?

jgr, you cannot get around Jesus was a Jew because his mother Mary was a Jew.

jgr said:

Jews have always recognized proselytes, both male and female, as fully Jewish.

Click to expand...

How do you know who the proselytes are in the bible, unless the bible verse(s) explicityly identifies them? You are talking about the rare exception, not the norm. Mary was certainly not said to be a proselyte in the bible.

Douggg said:

Hi Marilyn,

The five kings had already fallen by the time John was given the vision. The 6th king was ruling at the time of John.

The 7th was yet to come of John's time.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Click to expand...

Nothing to do with John`s time. It is all about what Jesus is doing judging the Final Gentile Global Government. In Rev. 17: 10, it is just before the 10 kings of the Islamic Federation have power with the A/C. Notice in verse 12, the very next verse it says that those 10 kings have `received no kingdom AS YET, but they receive authority as kings with the beast.`

That is the timing of when the 6th and 7th leader of the GG appear in turn.

Marilyn C said:

Notice in verse 12, the very next verse it says that those 10 kings have `received no kingdom AS YET, but they receive authority as kings with the beast.`

Click to expand...

Hi Marilyn,

The ten kings give their kingdom to the beast in Revelation 17:17; so the ten kings' kingdom must exist before the person becomes the beast.

The beast, king 8, is of the 7 kings. And the only king yet to come in Revelation 17:10 is king 7.

king 7 - the little horn person, coming up among the ten kings in the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7.
king 8 - the little horn person killed and come back to life

ten kings' kingdom > the horn person > prince who shall come > anointed by the false prophet King of

Israel to become the Antichrist> confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years Deut 31:9-13 > revealed as

the man of sin > no longer King of Israel > killed Ezekiel 28:1-10 > brought back to life Isaiah 14:18-20 >

becomes the beast. The ten kings give their kingdom to him Revelation 17:17.
____________________________________________________________________


Marilyn, in your scenario what is your explanation of the beast, the 8th king, being killed and brought back to life. Who is the person before becoming the beast ?

Marilyn C said:

We know that when Jesus ascended He went to the Father, (Heb. 1: 3) and there the Father told Jesus to `sit` there TILL He (Father) made Jesus` enemies His footstool

Click to expand...

He is also reigning. "He Must Reign" is present tense
1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

Jesus is also presently the ruler of the kings of the earth

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

Marilyn C said:

He has been given all authority, (Eph. 1: 20 - 22) however He is not operating in His Kingship at the moment till the Father brings His enemies to His footstool for judgment.

Click to expand...

This doesn't make any logical sense.

Marilyn C said:

And yes Dan. 2 is the great overview of the Gentiles World Rulership, whereas Dan. 7 reveals the lead up Federations to the final Gentile Global Government.

Click to expand...

No serious Bible commentator agrees with this. So why is your interpretation, out of the hundreds/thousands of different futurist interpretations the correct one?

Douggg said:

Hi Marilyn,

The ten kings give their kingdom to the beast in Revelation 17:17; so the ten kings' kingdom must exist before the person becomes the beast.

The beast, king 8, is of the 7 kings. And the only king yet to come in Revelation 17:10 is king 7.

king 7 - the little horn person, coming up among the ten kings in the fourth kingdom in Daniel 7.
king 8 - the little horn person killed and come back to life

ten kings' kingdom > the horn person > prince who shall come > anointed by the false prophet King of

Israel to become the Antichrist> confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for 7 years Deut 31:9-13 > revealed as

the man of sin > no longer King of Israel > killed Ezekiel 28:1-10 > brought back to life Isaiah 14:18-20 >

becomes the beast. The ten kings give their kingdom to him Revelation 17:17.
____________________________________________________________________


Marilyn, in your scenario what is your explanation of the beast, the 8th king, being killed and brought back to life. Who is the person before becoming the beast ?

Click to expand...

Agree, the 10 king Federation is before the person becomes the A/C.

The A/C is NOT the 8th king Satan is. He possesses the A/C and rules through him. The A/C is the Islamic Peace negotiator after God deals with the Russian Federation plus the Iranian, Ethiopian & Libyian`s armies.

If as you say the A/C is of the EU and confirms the covenant with Israel, then what is Russia and the Moslems doing?

claninja said:

He is also reigning. "He Must Reign" is present tense
1 Corinthians 15:25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.

Jesus is also presently the ruler of the kings of the earth

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.



This doesn't make any logical sense.



No serious Bible commentator agrees with this. So why is your interpretation, out of the hundreds/thousands of different futurist interpretations the correct one?

Click to expand...

I Cor. 15: 25 comes after v. 24 which reveals the `catching away` of `those who are Christ`s at His coming.` `Then comes the end,` meaning a setting out to a conclusion, and that is step by step, through the tribulation and on through the millennium.

As I have said Jesus is King in all areas, however He is not operating as such now. You need to show scripture that shows what He is doing NOW to prove that He is operating in His kingship. Remember what the Father said when Christ ascended -

`Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.` (Ps. 110: 1)

Why doesn`t my statement make sense? The Father is bringing Jesus` enemies to His footstool to judge them, and meanwhile the Lord the High Priest in build and maturing the Body of Christ.

I was taught that Dan. 7 concerns the time of Jesus setting up His kingdom, and I read that from God`s word. Just because others believe differently they would have to prove that those powers do not continue on, when God`s word says they do.

The error has come when people saw the EU staring to rise in the `70`s etc and read Dan. 2 the `legs of the Great Image` wrongly. They read that the `iron` meant Rome, whereas the `legs` are Rome and the `iron` describes the STRENGTH of that world Ruler.

People just jumped to wrong conclusions.

Marilyn C said:

The A/C is NOT the 8th king Satan is. He possesses the A/C and rules through him. The A/C is the Islamic Peace negotiator after God deals with the Russian Federation plus the Iranian, Ethiopian & Libyian`s armies.

Click to expand...

Hi Marilyn,

The beast is the 8th king. At Jesus's return, the beast and the false prophet will be cast alive into the lake of fire. Differently, Satan will be cast into the bottomless pit.

So 8th king > beast. The beast, however, cannot be Satan for the reason above.

The next question is who possesses the beast? Satan or someone else?

There is presently a disembodied spirit in the bottomless pit, that will come out and possess the 8th king. But Satan is not in the bottomless pit, so it is not referring to Satan. There are different views on who that disembodied spirit was when he was alive. My view is the original serpent in the garden who beguiled Eve, and led Adam and Eve to eat from the forbidden tree.

Marilyn C said:

If as you say the A/C is of the EU and confirms the covenant with Israel, then what is Russia and the Moslems doing?

Click to expand...

I do not think the covenant is a peace treaty, but the Mt. Sinai covenant.

When the person comes from the EU, following Gog/Magog, that is when the Jews will think that he is the messiah, and is anointed the King of Israel. And he makes the big speech from the temple mount, about God giving the land to the children of Israel as theirs forever. A requirement Moses made of all future leaders of Israel, back in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, on a cycle of 7 years.

As far as Russia and the muslims, their armies combined as Gog's army will suffer a catastrophic destruction and the multitude buried en masse grave site in Israel. It will be the end of Islam, so great will be the failure.

It will take 7 years for the next generation of Russians military age youths to replace their human loss, to once again make a move into the middle east near the end of the 7 years. At that time, to attack the beast, only to become part of the force that will try to make war on Jesus, when the sign of the Son of Man appears in heaven.