GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

Bob S said:

Torah WAS God's law for Israel.

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These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. (1 Corinthians 10:11)

Bob S said:

What happened at Pentecost? Why did Jesus tell believers He would send the Comforter to be with us? It seems like this was a new phenomenon.

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Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years." (Genesis 6:3)
It would seem that He was with us even before Sinai.

Bob S said:

My study of scripture indicates that God gave Israel special laws only for Israel. Torah WAS God's law for Israel. I do not have any idea about it being an expression. And where do you get that God's Law is spiritual and as such cannot be written????


What is process? Have you studied the two covenants? If you have then your conclusion is sure different than what I have gleaned. God took Moses aside and told him what the covenant He was about to give Israel was to be about.
Ex19:5 Now obey me completely. Keep my covenant. If you do, then out of all the nations you will be my special treasure. The whole earth is mine. 6 But you will be a kingdom of priests to serve me. You will be my holy nation.’ That is what you must tell the Israelites.” It was about how Israel was to live in the desert and in Canaan to become a Holy Nation. The new covenant is all about what we have to do to be ready to inherit Heaven.


What happened at Pentecost? Why did Jesus tell believers He would send the Comforter to be with us? It seems like this was a new phenomenon.

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I make a distinction between God's Law and mans ability to articulate that Law; the law being spiritual cannot be replicated in inferior human language. None the less God gives instruction. Israels problem is the never understood (except for some individual cases) what was required of them.


Regarding what scripture indicates to you I agree and disagree; the Law, Covenant involving the Kingdom of God; the law being mans responsibilities in that covenant, yet the law was not uniquely for Israel:


Leviticus 24:22 (NKJV)
22 You shall have the same law for the stranger and for one from your own country; for I am the LORD your God.' "


Exodus 12:48 (NKJV)
48 And when a stranger dwells with you and wants to keep the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as a native of the land. For no uncircumcised person shall eat it.


These are TYPES and the NT anti-types are the same in principle; the New covenant is made with the remnant that came out of the lost sheep of Israel (a little over hundred I believe) and their descendants and of course any gentiles who dwelt with them.


The process I had in mind was for the OT TYPE, the Priest had to wash the sin off his hands each time he performed a priestly duty; in the Anti-type the NT priest is baptised once for all time. Same Law different process.


I certainly do glean differently to you. God said, I am going to build a house, the House of Israel; The woman in Rev12:1 is the house that God built; but the House is still under construction The NT church is the New Jerusalem.


Exodus 19:5-6 (NKJV)
5 Now therefore, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be a special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.
6 And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words which you shall speak to the children of Israel."


For the literalist, these verse contain a contradiction; I says all of Israel are priests, however in Hebrews it is stated that the Law had to be changed for Jesus to be a priest because he wasn't a Levite.


I do not have a problem with new phenomenon, in the context that God does not change; I see the OT church as caterpillars and the NT church as butterfly, but still the same genus.

sparow said:

I see the OT church as caterpillars and the NT church as butterfly, but still the same genus.

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This is a very insightful observation, indeed.

Bob S said:

Torah WAS God's law for Israel. ...Have you studied the two covenants? .

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New Covenant -- just for Israel in that case.

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

And that LAW of God includes "do not take God's name in vain"

LoveGodsWord said:

I guess the main question who is God's true ISRAEL

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Would the answer change anyone ?

God knows perfectly who are His, right !?

LoveGodsWord said:

Depends if through God's Spirit they believe God's Word I guess

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Yes, 'through Yahweh's Spirit' is important. A lot of educated folk believe God's Word , but believe tradition more, and don't understand God's Word (or they would not believe the tradition). God must reveal the truth for them to understand, and if they don't want to, He won't do so.

Many will be surprised when the time comes to meet their maker. The thief on the Cross had only one feather in his cap, he believed.

Bob S said:

Many will be surprised when the time comes to meet their maker. The thief on the Cross had only one feather in his cap, he believed.

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One feather, as you put it, is all that is written:

Whoever TRUSTS IN JESUS, has LIFE;

whoever TRUSTS NOT IN JESUS, has NOT LIFE.

The big BUT

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Because the thief believed he was saved by the blood of Jesus. It is called God's grace and has nothing to do with obedience. We are all sinners saved by grace and not by any works of the old covenant law. Our works are like filthy rags.
Isaiah 64:6
All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.