Ruining the Earth.

GingerBeer · Sep 29, 2019

Daniel Martinovich said:
Luke 17: 20-21
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God does not come with observation, (visibly): Nor shall they say, Look here! or, look there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is inside you.

Luke 17:20-21 expresses a fundamental truth in the Bible. It is a revelatory scripture. One that is explains a great body of other scriptures, especially Bible prophecy. The cultural norm or viewpoint held by consensus in that time was that the kingdom of God would come in a visible form with the descendant of David sitting on a throne in the nation of Israel. In their minds he was to bring righteousness, justice, mercy, truth and peace to the earth through physical force. Whether that force be earthly, angelic or miraculous is irrelevant. The Son of David would be seated in Jerusalem, in the Middle East, as king to administer it. They got this viewpoint from scriptures like these and many others. What Jesus was doing was correcting that misconception. His answer to the formally educated leaders of that day brings us to an unfortunate reality of the last few generations. These verses of scripture although used by some for certain purposes are almost heartbreakingly ignored as to what they specifically imply. That there will never be a visible\physical government of God on the earth. I call them the most ignored verses in the New Testament. This due to the fact that 99% of today's pastors and teachers emphatically teach that some day there will be visible\physical government of God on earth.
Basically these verses contain two statements. The first corrects a false teaching or belief about certain, mostly prophetic scriptures about the government of God on earth. That it will not be visible\physical. The second, in a highly condensed form show how all those prophecies and promises will come to pass in the world. By way of the government of God being inside of people. Meaning God will work through and with people to change the world for the better. That reveals the problem that confronts our generation. The basic premise that the Pharisees believed is one and the same as most of our formally educated leaders and Bible teachers hold today. Since they believe that kingdom of God is indeed coming visibly. The full import of the second statement; "the Kingdom of God is inside of you." is being high jacked to teach things other than its original intent. Which is: The ancient world, the world that Jesus and his apostles walked in would be transformed because God and his government are inside of individuals. In fact in the proper time and season. So transformed that the hundreds of chapters of promise and prophecy would be able to be fulfilled in any nation that meets the conditions laid out in scripture.
Does the reader see the problem? If all those promises and prophecies about a new heaven and earth are to come to pass because Jesus rides into town on a white horse with a sword in his hand to physically force righteousness on the world. How do his people ever grasp the true nature of the calling and personally develop, then strategize and labor in such a way that will naturally transform the world we live in? The answer is that they can't. If the true follower of Christ has been bewitched into thinking the world has and will grow worse and worse until Jesus comes. Or, if they have accepted teachings that say the only way all those promises and prophecies can come to pass is via a physical intervention by God to destroy evil and somehow miraculously impose goodness. Then why would they even so much as day dream about a calling, knowledge, preparations, strategies and miraculous empowerment from heaven to change it themselves? Without that knowledge the extent of their work would have to revolve around winning souls and "making disciples." Which one way or the other is the right thing to do. Without winning souls and making disciples nothing in God's Word can come to pass. A disciple is not just to learn how they should live though. They are supposed to learn what God's will is for the world. If they do not, they cannot intelligently participate with God in that aspect of his will to transform it.

.....behold, the kingdom of God is inside you.

The Government of God that this article is attempting to described is not what has always existed, but rather what has been prophesied. Furthermore not so much its humble beginnings but rather its ending. In other words: What is Government of God that scripture says was or is to come? How does it come, what does it look like. How does it govern, how does it bring change for the better?

The way Gods government works on earth could be likened to the ultimate grass roots organization. Its only mode of gaining ground is through personal interaction on a strictly individual basis. Truth and reality are employed in this personal interaction that is both divine and spiritual in nature. It is left to the individual to voluntarily accept by faith, or reject both the divine interaction and the truth that is presented. In this sense the Government of God is revelatory, instructive, motivational and administrative on a specifically individual scale. In the broadest sense of this personal relationship God is referred as Father; in which the child is completely dependent upon for every necessity of life. This is the totality of the basis or foundation of the (prophesied) Government of God in the earth. This not only represents it's humble beginnings but also the basis of its end. It is the beginning because God in his sovereignty created moral agents in such a way that limits his control over them to that which can persuade a voluntary change of heart on their part. He cannot change their hearts by physical or miraculous force or coercion. It is the end because God will not and indeed cannot establish moral governance in the earth without the cooperation of men.

If step one in God's program to govern the earth is to get an individual to accept that governance. To birth it into that individual. The next feature or step lays in the physical nature of moral agents. If an individual accepts truth and embraces reality, especially if it came through divine agency. By physical necessity it will have an effect on that individuals behavior. The adulterer will seek reconciliation with their spouse. Parents that cared little about their children will commit themselves to love them and seek their betterment. The womanizer and sexually immoral, the inappropriate content user will restrain their appetites and seek a new nature. The politician and the lawyer will stop lying, the thief will stop stealing. The same conditions that brought the behavioral changes will also cause those who have discovered this new way of life to tell others about it. This is done in hopes of bringing others to the same experience. The care and love brought into hearts by Christ's sacrifice and resurrection power will cause these individuals to employ all kinds of means in their efforts to bring others to Christ. In their minds it is an essential part of their faith to see others reconciled to the government of God that they too may find the promise of eternal life. These are the perfectly natural effects of a voluntarily embraced personal relationship with the God of truth and love.
Most true believers at least in theory know that all the resources of heaven are available to these individuals to accomplish these things in steps one and two. The extent of the availability of these resources is based on the individuals faith which in a real sense is based on their experiential knowledge. This is essentially the work of the Gospel which comes through Gods initiation and not mankind's. It is designed to bring the governess of God into the lives of individuals. The majority of modern Bible teachers and pastors generally agree with this. That this is what Jesus meant when he said the Kingdom of God is inside of you. It brings personal salvation and should result in behavior modifications. Yet it's at this stage where Gods agenda for world governess gets high jacked by false teachings about a future visible\physical Government with Jesus sitting on a throne in the middle east. Basically leaving us with a glass half full.
As steps one and two involve a process that God is initiating and intimately involved in with the cooperation of people. The continuation of the same exact process by it's very nature involves cultural and political change. This is quite a bit more complicated than the initial steps because there are so many different factors involved. Perhaps this is one reason why the subject has not been thought through by so many. It is easier to just leave the glass half full so to speak than to bring basic teachings to their fullest extent when it involves very complicated situations in culture and politics. What needs to be understood though is that this process is totally natural to the point of being unavoidable. What effects people personally will quite naturally effect culture and politics. When individuals lives are radically transformed by an intimate relationship with heavenly and eternal things. There will be a physically unavoidable effect in their personal behavior and their relationships. This carries over in exactly the same manner to their political and cultural viewpoints. Again, to deny this is to deny the very nature of moral agents and is tantamount to denying that the faith of Christ has any bearing in the thoughts and actions of individuals who have discovered the grace of God. It would be saying that heavenly and eternal things can be contained in the heart but cannot show themselves in any form or fashion in the natural world. Kind of a ridiculous suggestion but in fact this is the position doctrinally for most Christians as far as their view of the future is concerned.
If one person coming to Christ can change the culture of a family. If the culture of a family is changed, if children are now born to Christian parents. If these people are winning more souls. then the same holds true for a village or a community. If a community or a people groups culture is changed. If a significant minority of them are soul winning evangelical Christians and if a majority of them accept Christian principles in law and government. Then a nation can be changed in the same manner. If a nation can be changed (and their have been nations changed this way,) then the whole world can be changed. There are no brakes on this vehicle except self imposed ones. You cannot intellectually admit to change taking place at a family or local level and at the same time reject the same vehicle's ability to change a nation or the whole world. Yet for the last century the majority of believers have boldly announced that the world is getting worse and worse and will end in a final cataclysmic event that will usher in the Kingdom of God. To the authors knowledge there has never been a more effective propaganda campaign than what the devil himself hatched in the hearts of God's people than the utter falsehood that the world is more evil than it was before. There is no comparison between our world today and the ancient world. To say that there is the height of ignorance or arrogance. The very worst that our world today has to offer was the common practice, the norm of the ancient world. The very best our world today has to offer was only a dream of thinkers and prophets. Even today without any working knowledge of this subject in the hearts of so many of God's saints, the vehicle moves forward. Yes! even though the saints deny any such thing is happening, even when they totally disagree with God and the reality on the ground. Hearts are being changed, cultures are being transformed, and darkness is giving way to light in many nations. The next few paragraphs will look at a working knowledge of this process.

From:What Is The Government Of God?

TLDR. Humble apologies.

JacksBratt · Sep 29, 2019

gideon123 said:
Greetings to the Kiwis and Aussies on this forum. It is interesting to see people from downunder here, I dont remember anyone joining from Aust or NZ before. Welcome!

I was born in Australia and grew up as a student in NZ. I now live in the USA.

Here is one point. Australia is having a very rough time with droughts. This is causing very bad bush fires every summer ... dangerous to life and property. And very destructive to the ecosystem.

Australia is not alone. California, Portugal and Canada have also had very similar problems. The droughts are linked to climate change. This problem was not anticipated by scientists when the original theory of Climate Change was proposed. It is an example of the destructive things that can happen ... but they are hard to foresee. We live in a complex world.

Personally I think theae unexpected risks pose a bigger problem than topics such as "sea level change". That is why I said earlier that discussion of ocean levels is giving the general public a "skewed viewpoint" about Climate Change.

Gideon, if you do some research, you will find that the areas that you mentioned have always had brush fires and always will.

The brush fires are more prevalent in times of higher drought, for obvious reasons.

Saying that there is an increase, due to climate change, although true because the climate is always changing and, as I said before, in times when the dry season is a bit longer, you will have more fires... But stating that it these are higher, now, due to man made global warming, has been shown to be hyperbole.

In Canada, we have always had forest fires by natural causes. However, with newer foresting methods, undergrowth is not kept cut down. It is better for the forest than "clear cutting" but leaves the forest prone to fast spreading natural wild fires.

As populations move further and further into what used to be wilderness, our homes and property are now more and more impacted by these naturally occurring events.

However, it is known that forest fires are a natural event and they create ecosystems and regrowth of flora and fauna that provide a niche for various organisms that need them.

To say that these are a sign of the climate change, is disingenuous.

Here, from Wiki:

A controlled or prescribed burn, also known as hazard reduction burning,[1] backfire, swailing, or a burn-off,[2] is a wildfire set intentionally for purposes of forest management, farming, prairie restoration or greenhouse gas abatement. A controlled burn may also refer to the intentional burning of slash and fuels through burn piles.[3] Fire is a natural part of both forest and grassland ecology and controlled fire can be a tool for foresters. Hazard reduction or controlled burning is conducted during the cooler months to reduce fuel buildup and decrease the likelihood of serious hotter fires.[4] Controlled burning stimulates the germination of some desirable forest trees, and reveals soil mineral layers which increases seedling vitality, thus renewing the forest. Some cones, such as those of lodgepole pine and sequoia, are serotinous, as well as many chaparral shrubs, meaning they require heat from fire to open cones to disperse seeds.

In industrialized countries, controlled burning is usually overseen by fire control authorities for regulations and permits.

JacksBratt · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
I listened to this fellow and I disagree with his claims about the last two decades of climate change.

The data available from the department of meteorology states that the climate is warming and accelerating, and has been observed to be warming over the last two decades.

These people need to do their homework and stop presenting false claims.

The last five years of global temperatures have been record global years.

This guy needs to be locked up for deceiving the general public.

Well, of course you disagree with the last two decades... This is where the most disingenuous data is.

I have already shown that "Environment Canada" was exposed for deleting an entire century of data... due to the fact that it didn't fit their computer models...

I believe that there is no truth, and have no faith, no respect for any of these government run organizations that are reporting climate information or prediction. ESPECIALLY in the last two decades.

Did this presenter not fight tooth and nail and put his life on the line for matters that were harming our global ecosystems animals?

Yet, now, you think he is being disingenuous and presenting false data... that would counter others who are claiming to do the same as he was doing before?

The data that is being presented by the global warming promoters, only looks at small windows of a few decades here and a few decades there. This allows them to present "data" that backs up their agenda.

However, taking the margins out to where the climate has been accurately measured and recorded.. which is only a little over a century.. You will see that their numbers are false and the data from the late 1800' through to the 2000's will indicate that the 1930's are problematic for any global warming propaganda.

JacksBratt · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
I think the real issue is climate change is so gradual that you can actually miss it altogether, in everyone's day to day life.

The meteorologists directly observe the subtle changes in temperature, so do climate scientists. Anyone who checks weather around their country on a daily basis is acutely aware of climate change.

Russia, Canada, Australia, e.t.c. are suffering directly from climate change, so we as nations know what is happening from experience.

We now get bush fires in winter and everyone is deeply shocked at that. The whole country is so dry now that we build desalination plants and are beginning to truck water to towns.

This is all down to the latitudes that your country is situated within. The latitudes that Russia and Canada touch are undergoing extreme climate change and in the south the same phenomenon is occurring.

Climate change is real and can be observed directly though the change is so gradual.

Canada is not suffering from climate change... Well, let me put that differently... The only way Canada is suffering from climate change is by suffering through the leadership of an entitled, snot nosed brat, Justine Trudeau, who is more concerned about how he looks than what he does.

He will dress up and support any agenda that he feels will make him look good.
He's out of touch with reality, with real life and has no idea what the real problems are for Canadians because he has never had to work in his life, never wanted for anything.. except attention. He's a narcissist and a hypocrite.

There are about 5 provincial governments who are refusing to implement his bogus and useless "Carbon Tax" which he is forcing on to the people.

As for the "suffering" of Canadians.... Nope.... Some years have hot dry summers, like last year.. then we get a wet cool and shorter one like this year...

Somehow, both are the result of "climate change". It's really sad.

JacksBratt · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
Let's say that climate change is not happening.

Why would you do that? That is just ignorant.... Nobody is denying that climate change is happening.. What we are saying is that it is not man made, we cannot control it, it is cyclic and we are not going to die in 10, 12 or 30 years from CO2.

klutedavid said:
So we do not attempt to stop it and five years from now climate change. Starts to really impact the planet and we realize that we lost another five years in slowing that change down.

This is just global warming hyperbole...

Tell me... what are you going to do to stop it... Tell me..

klutedavid said:
If your wrong we may wander into an irreversible climate change event. If I'm wrong we lose nothing at all.

What are you doing to stop it.. Without knowledge of your actions, we cannot determine if we will lose nothing.

Canada is trying to impose taxes on certain products that are supposed to curtail the use of said products.. However, the people of Canada use these products to live, support a family, work and put food on the table. They are things that we need everyday. We are not going to use less because we are already using as much as we need.

We are already overtaxed and some people were choosing between paying their electricity bill or putting food on the table.

So..... what are you going to do..... tell us that.... then we will see if "we will lose nothing"..

That is just bogus political lies.

klutedavid said:
Place your chips where you wish but you are supporting an extremely dangerous idea.

The last five years are the hottest on record and the alarm bells are already ringing. Soon you will change your mind whether you want to not.

They are not the hottest on record... back up to the 1930's... Oh ya... they forgot to tell you about the great dust bowl years... didn't they....

Place your chips on the table... I hear a lot of yack yack yack about doing something but so far this "doing something" is just taking my money...

The ultimate stupidity of the Canadian carbon tax is that they are going to take my money, but give me a rebate at the end of the year so that I don't really lose any money.... Well, geniuses... then why take it in the first place.... MORONS... All morons.

JacksBratt · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
View attachment 264031
See I told you so.

If you deny the data that NASA is using please present your evidence for inspection.

This graph has already been proven to be fabricated. The hockey stick was also debunked.

The jig is up... there is some much false data, skewed data, deleted data and cherry picking of data going on and exposed... climate change is not man made and has been happening for the entire life of the earth.

Time to stop perpetuating the lies.

Cis.jd · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
You tell me because I do not understand how people say that this observed climate change phenomenon, is but a Satanic strategy to control the world.

I see climate change as well as the destruction of the planet as direct proof, that mankind is evil and cannot live without God's direct intervention.

I don't either, most of them have only developed an understanding of reality just by fundamental interpretations of scripture and have 0 respect for intellectual perspectives. Mankind is evil though, and I do have difficulty wrestling the logic of how man hasn't beaten the devil in terms of evil.

Cis.jd · Sep 29, 2019

Akita Suggagaki said:
There are at least two concerns: climate change and pollution.

Climate change is debatable and political as well as requiring global cooperation.

Pollution, air, water and land seem to be more local concerns... even down to the city or town level. In fact, even one's own daily habits.

Yup, most of these people who are at odds on this have never lived outside their neighborhoods. They should research on Beijing and how there are days where schools and businesses have to close because of days of pollution in the area.

For me on this topic. I am in the middle. I don't know if I believe CC (atleast on the level being publicized today) and see it as a possible leftist propaganda that is going lead to a college kids going to the streets with signs about this while throwing confetti and probably rainbow printed materials all over the streets, and we will all be forced to listen another song of oppression, white people, homophobia, sexism and whatever.

Contrary, the "religious" arguments being used against it here are irritating to read and it's just affirming some negative views on Christianity being a bad ideology.

So Satan is turning people away from Christ by deceiving man into stopping stuff like this? https://sm.mashable.com/mashable_sea/photo/default/pasig-river-pollution-summit-media_1qqc.jpg

1213 · Sep 29, 2019

GingerBeer said:
... Do the scriptures give any indication of why this is so? Is there anything people can do about it?...

I don’t know the reason, but I am sure that paying more taxes doesn’t change climate. Also, the level of CO2 is at the moment quite low for plants. I think it is not wise to try to make the CO2 lover, because it would be harmful for growth of plants. It rather should be little higher, because it would increase growth and so could lower the risk of famine also.

lsume · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
The department of meteorology is a government funded department, they just measure temperature everyday. They don't need to deliver results or findings, they just measure national temperature.

The department of meteorology is not bidding for some funding or a contract. The department of meteorology couldn't care less what government is in power. They just measure temperature that is pretty much all they do.

If you think the department of meteorology is lying about the recorded temperatures, then approach them with your temperature measurements. Refute them and you have my full support, I have been after them for years.
Evidence is all you need.

Why don’t you approach the other agencies that don’t agree with their findings first since you choose to ignore The Word of God and side with man in a very narrow way. I don’t mean to cause you grief but I’ve seen enough corruption in my career to know better than to trust the numbers that come out of government agencies. Figures don’t lie but liars figure is an inconvenient truth. I don’t plan to debate you on this. I have no idea what have done for your career but I’m guessing that I’ve done a lot more calculations dealing with thermodynamics than you have. The government is loaded with incompetence. I’m not their judge either.

lsume · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
The department of meteorology is a government funded department, they just measure temperature everyday. They don't need to deliver results or findings, they just measure national temperature.

The department of meteorology is not bidding for some funding or a contract. The department of meteorology couldn't care less what government is in power. They just measure temperature that is pretty much all they do.

If you think the department of meteorology is lying about the recorded temperatures, then approach them with your temperature measurements. Refute them and you have my full support, I have been after them for years.
Evidence is all you need.

Honestly I wonder why meteorology does anything related to calculating heat transfer and thermodynamics. They are severely limited in their educational backgrounds compared to chemical and mechanical engineers. Look at the outrageous funding they have wasted without coming up with working models predicting weather. I’d take either of the aforementioned engineering disciplines with PhD’s and not look back.

Jonaitis · Sep 29, 2019

GingerBeer said:
People are worried about climate change and rising oceans. The ice caps are melting. Summers are hotter. Storms are stronger. Do the scriptures give any indication of why this is so? Is there anything people can do about it?

(Revelation of John 11:18) The nations raged,
but your wrath came,
and the time for the dead to be judged,
and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints,
and those who fear your name,
both small and great,
and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.

Climate Change is a myth for the government to run their hands down your pockets.

GingerBeer · Sep 29, 2019

Jonaitis said:
Climate Change is a myth for the government to run their hands down your pockets.

Why would such perfidious government people need a myth to do that? By the way what do you make of this passage?

(Romans 13:1-4) [1] Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. [2] Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, [4] for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.

~Zao~ · Sep 29, 2019

GingerBeer said:
Why would such perfidious government people need a myth to do that? By the way what do you make of this passage?

(Romans 13:1-4) [1] Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. [2] Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, [4] for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.

For centuries it was used by Christian rulers to legalize obedience to them, and up until the time of Hitler when German Christians justified obedience to the 3rd riech. Now it’s used more for secular to support gvmnts but Trump may have changed that.

Akita Suggagaki · Sep 29, 2019

Anyone interested in actually learning something?

https://www.amazon.com/Global-Catas...6J0Y1DK9PS8&psc=1&refRID=RYSA9TZMC6J0Y1DK9PS8

GingerBeer · Sep 29, 2019

~Zao~ said:
For centuries it was used by Christian rulers to legalize obedience to them, and up until the time of Hitler when German Christians justified obedience to the 3rd riech. Now it’s used more for secular to support gvmnts but Trump may have changed that.

Curiosity compels me to ask how you yourself apply the passage?

~Zao~ · Sep 29, 2019

GingerBeer said:
Curiosity compels me to ask how you yourself apply the passage?

Governing authorities are the principals of Christian theology and the steps leading to them have also been ordained.

(think Jesus’ teaching about those in the seat of Moses, for instruction from the letter and not pertaining to the person)

(Romans 13:1-4) [1] Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. [2] Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. [3] For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, [4] for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer.

Daniel Martinovich · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
People tend not to read such large posts.

Can you include paragraphs and somehow abbreviate what your saying. Anything more than about ten lines is probably too much.

I just copied and pasted the first two sections of an article on my website. I realize a lot of people won’t read it. But they are even less likely to go read a linked article.

Daniel Martinovich · Sep 29, 2019

klutedavid said:
View attachment 264031
See I told you so.

If you deny the data that NASA is using please present your evidence for inspection.

Sorry. NASA doesn’t get a second third or fourth chance to present data on a graph. Many of us have been on top of this debate for more than two decades. We have caught NASA falsifying data time and time again. Until all the people employed there in the last few decades are dead and gone. They are simply not to be trusted.

I’ll add this cause I just read it a few hours after this comment. Just because it is so typical. Everything about this climate change alarmism is a lie. It is 100% political and 0% scientific.
Oops! Nature magazine yanks global-warming study for 'systematic errors' - WND

Erik Nelson · Sep 29, 2019

That was fast ! So much for "we will be watching you" for the rest of our climate-afflicted lives

Ruining the Earth.

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